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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]
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Panoj wrote:
GMATNinja wrote:
The conclusion of this passage is that the gardener's belief--that jackmanii is the most popular variety of clematis vine among gardeners in North America (NA)--is apparently correct. The word "apparently" is very important here. The conclusion would be substantially different if we were to replace "apparently" with "definitely".

More on that in a moment... but first, why does the author conclude that the belief is apparently correct?

  • The largest clematis nursery in NA sells one million clematis plants per year.
  • Of the one million clematis plants sold per year by that nursery, ten percent are jackmanii.

A substantial chunk of the clematis plants sold at the largest nursery are jackmanii. The author reasons that jackmanii's popularity at the largest nursery is a good indicator of its popularity among NA gardeners.

But what about the other 90%? What if another variety of clematis accounts for MORE than 10% of the one million? In that case, jackmanii would not be the most popular variety at the nursery. However, if no other variety accounts for 10% (or more) of the one million, then jackmanii would be in fact be the most popular variety at the nursery.

Would that prove that jackmanii is the most popular variety in NA? Not necessarily. But if jackmanii is #1 at the largest nursery, that's certainly EVIDENCE that jackmanii is #1 in NA. Again, we are trying to conclude that the belief is APPARENTLY correct, not that the believe is DEFINITELY correct. As long as we have evidence that jackmanii is the most popular variety among NA gardeners, we're in good shape.

With that in mind, let's look at the answer choices:

Quote:
(A) The nursery sells more than 10 different varieties of clematis

If the nursery sells 10 varieties or fewer, then there would HAVE to be another variety that accounts for more than 10% of the one million plants sold at the nursery. If that were true, then jackmanii could not be the most popular variety at the nursery. Thus, we would not have evidence that jackmanii is #1 in NA. Without choice (A), the argument falls apart.

Now, does choice (A) PROVE that jackmanii is #1 at the nursery? Not at all... even with 20 varieties, there could be another type that accounts for more than 10% of the million. That, of course, would ruin the argument.

Even if choice (A) is true, the argument may or may not be valid, but that's okay. In other words, choice (A) doesn't PROVE that the author's reasoning is sound. But without choice (A), the author's argument could not be valid. This is a required assumption, so keep (A).

Quote:
(B) The largest clematis nursery in North America sells nothing but clematis plants

The nursery could sell many other types of plants. As long as jackmanii is the most popularity variety of clematis plant sold at the nursery, then the author's reasoning holds up. This is not a required assumption, so eliminate (B).

Quote:
(C) Some of the jackmanii sold by the nursery are sold to gardeners outside North America

If a substantial portion of jackmanii sales were to gardeners outside of NA, then we might have a problem. That might suggest that jackmanii's popularity at the nursery is NOT a good indicator of jackmanii's popularity among NA gardeners.

Choice (C) only says that SOME of the jackmanii are sold to gardeners outside of NA. In that case, the jackmanii sales at the nursery are probably a good indicator of its popularity among NA gardeners.

Does that make (C) a REQUIRED assumption? If (C) were not true and the nursery ONLY sold jackmanii to gardeners within NA, then that would probably further strengthen the argument. That would give us even more reason to believe that the sales at the nursery are a good indicator of NA popularity. Choice (C) is not a required assumption, so eliminate (C).

Quote:
(D) Most North American gardeners grow clematis in their gardens

It doesn't matter whether clematis is a popular plant in general. The belief is that jackmanii is the most popular variety OF clematis. Even if only a tiny fraction of NA gardeners grow clematis, jackmanii could still be the most popular variety among those gardeners who DO grow clematis. Eliminate (D).

Quote:
(E) For all nurseries in North America that specialize in clematis, at least 10% of the clematis plants they sell are jackmanii.

This is admittedly a little bit tempting: sure, it would strengthen the argument. But this isn't a strengthen question: we need to know whether this is NECESSARY to draw the conclusion.

And it isn't necessary: even if (E) is NOT true -- for example, if jackmanii accounts for less than 10% of clematis plants at a few nurseries -- it's still possible that jackmanii is the most popular. And since (E) isn't necessary, it's not the correct answer.

(A) is the best answer.


How the individual vine percentage figure accounts to less than 10℅ when for the case of say 11 vines are distributed like 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,81,10(jackmanii) percent..how can this case be dealt with? In this case we have the vine with 82℅ as winner...where am I missing out?
When there are 10 or less than 10 varieties,jackmanii cannot be the winner as other vines will have a starting percentage of 10 ℅ each,any change in distribution will make another vine the majority. Whereas, over 10 varieties may or may not make another vine a majority.
Do we need this
assumption --> conclusion verification in assumtion questions because this approach seem to fail here to prove 'A' as the answer...Please clear my doubt.

Posted from my mobile device


Note that an assumption is a necessary condition; it need not be a sufficient condition. You NEED more than 10 varieties but just having 11 varieties may not be ENOUGH. You need to ensure that each variety other than jackmanii is less than 10%.
The question is looking for an assumption. Option (A) is a NECESSARY condition.
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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]
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By using the negation technique, if we negate option (C) Some of the jackmanii sold by the nursery are sold to gardeners outside North America ..
Negation : Most of the jackmanii sold by the nursery are sold to gardeners outside North America .. doesnt this break the conclusion of the argument that jackmanii is the most popular among gardners in NA?
Since most plants are being sold outside NA, then gardeners in NA aren't buying it.



Hello Dear,

Negation doesn't mean OPPOSITE of an option.

Right Negation for the Option would be:

None of the jackmanii sold by the nursery are sold to gardeners outside North America.
OR
It is not the case that some of the jackmanii sold by the nursery are sold to gardeners outside North America.


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Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]
a.The nursery sells more than 10 different varieties of clematis


From negation, I was able to get to A.
However, this does not have to necessarily be true, does it? There can be 9 different varieties and still the conclusion will hold true.
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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]
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akash7gupta11 wrote:
a.The nursery sells more than 10 different varieties of clematis


From negation, I was able to get to A.
However, this does not have to necessarily be true, does it? There can be 9 different varieties and still the conclusion will hold true.

If there are only 9 varieties and jackmanii represents 10%, that means that the other 8 account for 90% (of clematis plants sold per year by the largest clematis nursery in North America).

If that's the case, at least one of those 8 would have to represent more than 10% of the plants sold. That's more than jackmanii, so the argument would fall apart.

This post discusses (A) in further detail. I hope that helps!
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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]
Quote:
Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most popular among gardeners in North America is jackmanii

Quote:
one million clematis plants sold per year by the largest clematis nursery in North America, ten percent are jackmanii.


Is n't conclusion emphasis that clematis plants are sold to GARDENERS. If few gardeners buy this sold 10% of clematis plants then conclusion would apparently not hold true because it is FAMOUS only among few gardeners. However , if this 10% is distributed among many gardeners then it binds the conclusion that it is INDEED popular .

Quote:
D. Most North American gardeners grow clematis in their gardens

So here D represents that many NA gardeners grow clematis which means that it is distributively famous among gardeners across US, thus it is more popular .


GodGMATNinja VeritasKarishma
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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]
itsSKR wrote:
Quote:
Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most popular among gardeners in North America is jackmanii

Quote:
one million clematis plants sold per year by the largest clematis nursery in North America, ten percent are jackmanii.


Is n't conclusion emphasis that clematis plants are sold to GARDENERS. If few gardeners buy this sold 10% of clematis plants then conclusion would apparently not hold true because it is FAMOUS only among few gardeners. However , if this 10% is distributed among many gardeners then it binds the conclusion that it is INDEED popular .

Quote:
D. Most North American gardeners grow clematis in their gardens

So here D represents that many NA gardeners grow clematis which means that it is distributively famous among gardeners across US, thus it is more popular .


GodGMATNinja VeritasKarishma



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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]
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itsSKR wrote:
itsSKR wrote:
Quote:
Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most popular among gardeners in North America is jackmanii

Quote:
one million clematis plants sold per year by the largest clematis nursery in North America, ten percent are jackmanii.


Is n't conclusion emphasis that clematis plants are sold to GARDENERS. If few gardeners buy this sold 10% of clematis plants then conclusion would apparently not hold true because it is FAMOUS only among few gardeners. However , if this 10% is distributed among many gardeners then it binds the conclusion that it is INDEED popular .

Quote:
D. Most North American gardeners grow clematis in their gardens

So here D represents that many NA gardeners grow clematis which means that it is distributively famous among gardeners across US, thus it is more popular .


GodGMATNinja VeritasKarishma



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Popularity of a product depends on how many of it are sold.

Say plant A and plant B.
If 100 units of plant A are sold and only 10 units of plant B are sold, which is more popular? Plant A.
Now, does it matter whether 1 person bought all 100 but 10 different people bought the 10 units of plant B? No. The 10 different people wanted only one unit of plant B and overall only 10 units of plant B were required.
Whereas, 100 units of plant A were required - whether bought by 1 large nursery owner or 50 different people.
That is true for popularity of any product - how much is it sold?
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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]
Hi mikemcgarry VeritasKarishma GMATNinja,

I have a meaning based query here.

Are the gardeners the buyers of jackmani/clematis over here?

While reading the premise, the understanding I attained was that the gardeners are professional gardeners/salesmen who work at the nurseries and they sell the clematis to other customers. And since the biggest nursery sells 10 percent of jackmani to customers, that is why they believe that it is most popular among gardeners. And this belief is what the author also think is correct. And since this argument is flawed, that is why we have to find what assumptions are there in it.

Can you please explain why this understanding is incorrect? Also, for future, what clues can I pick up from the question to help me decide what I have understood is correct or does the stimulus have a different meaning?

Thanks a lot in advance :)
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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]
VeritasKarishma GMATNinja GMATNinjaTwo -

For option A -- I see option A as an "INFERENCE" and not an assumption

Per my understanding, Inferences are different than assumptions

Why is option A an assumption and not perhaps an INFERENCE ?
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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]
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jabhatta2 wrote:
VeritasKarishma GMATNinja GMATNinjaTwo -

For option A -- I see option A as an "INFERENCE" and not an assumption

Per my understanding, Inferences are different than assumptions

Why is option A an assumption and not perhaps an INFERENCE ?



Break down the argument into its components:

Premises:
10% of clematis plants sold are jackmanii.

Conclusion:
Jackmanii is the most popular clematis plant.

What if there were only 2 varieties of clematis plants? 10% were jackmanii and 90% mackmanii. Will jackmanii be most popular? No.
What if there were only 10 varieties of clematis plants? Each sold 10%. Will jackmanii be most popular? No. If any plant sold less than 10%, another plant would have sold more than 10% to make up for it. Then that plant would be most popular. So jackmanii cannot be most popular if there are only 10 varieties.

We need to have more than 10 varieties for it to be possible.
So option (A) is necessary for conclusion to hold. Hence it is the assumption.

An inference is what we can infer from the given premises of the argument. It is the conclusion of the argument. This argument already has a conclusion. Option (A) can be inferred if the given conclusion is taken to be true. But an inference should be derived from the premises. An argument that asks you for an inference will not have a conclusion.
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Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]
VeritasKarishma wrote:
jabhatta2 wrote:
VeritasKarishma GMATNinja GMATNinjaTwo -

For option A -- I see option A as an "INFERENCE" and not an assumption

Per my understanding, Inferences are different than assumptions

Why is option A an assumption and not perhaps an INFERENCE ?



Break down the argument into its components:

Premises:
10% of clematis plants sold are jackmanii.

Conclusion:
Jackmanii is the most popular clematis plant.

What if there were only 2 varieties of clematis plants? 10% were jackmanii and 90% mackmanii. Will jackmanii be most popular? No.
What if there were only 10 varieties of clematis plants? Each sold 10%. Will jackmanii be most popular? No. If any plant sold less than 10%, another plant would have sold more than 10% to make up for it. Then that plant would be most popular. So jackmanii cannot be most popular if there are only 10 varieties.

We need to have more than 10 varieties for it to be possible.
So option (A) is necessary for conclusion to hold. Hence it is the assumption.

An inference is what we can infer from the given premises of the argument. It is the conclusion of the argument. This argument already has a conclusion. Option (A) can be inferred if the given conclusion is taken to be true. But an inference should be derived from the premises. An argument that asks you for an inference will not have a conclusion.


Thank you VeritasKarishma for responding - just curious, if option A was just the following :

Option A instead ) In the largest nursery in America , No other variety of clematis sold more than hundred thousand plants

Would this be an assumption as well ?

I think it is a necessary assumption but it just seems to be an inference to me ( I understand that in CR arguments, inferences questions will not have conclusions) but if option A has said what i just said above, i would immediately -- just say -- that is not really an assumption, it seems almost like an inference
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Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]
GMATNinja - In all assumptions questions, the assumption connects the premise to the conclusion (acts as a bridge between the premise and the conclusion)

In this case, I don't see any bridge nor any link between the premise and the conclusion ...

jabhatta2 wrote:
Premise : sales numbers in the largest nursery (i.e. Of the one million clematis plants sold per year by that nursery, ten percent are jackmanii.)
Conclusion : Jackmanii is the most popular clematis plant in the North America


OA seems to be almost an inference if I read the premise and the conclusion (almost like reading a RC passage, if you read the premise and the author's conclusion -- what can the reader infer ?)

A necessary assumption however is something that **links** the premise to the conclusion ...so some assumptions that bridged the evidence provided in the premise and the conclusion I was thinking (as part of my pre-thinking were)
a) No clemati's are being sold that are not captured in the accounting books of the largest nursery -- this would link the premise to the conclusion a bit more
b) Popularity can be gauged by number of clemati's sold in the largest nursery == this would link the premise to the conclusion


I don't see how the OA "links" the premise to the conclusion

Please let me know your thoughts
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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]
jabhatta2 wrote:
GMATNinja - In all assumptions questions, the assumption connects the premise to the conclusion (acts as a bridge between the premise and the conclusion)

In this case, I don't see any bridge nor any link between the premise and the conclusion ...

jabhatta2 wrote:
Premise : sales numbers in the largest nursery (i.e. Of the one million clematis plants sold per year by that nursery, ten percent are jackmanii.)
Conclusion : Jackmanii is the most popular clematis plant in the North America


OA seems to be almost an inference if I read the premise and the conclusion (almost like reading a RC passage, if you read the premise and the author's conclusion -- what can the reader infer ?)

A necessary assumption however is something that **links** the premise to the conclusion ...so some assumptions that bridged the evidence provided in the premise and the conclusion I was thinking (as part of my pre-thinking were)
a) No clemati's are being sold that are not captured in the accounting books of the largest nursery -- this would link the premise to the conclusion a bit more
b) Popularity can be gauged by number of clemati's sold in the largest nursery == this would link the premise to the conclusion


I don't see how the OA "links" the premise to the conclusion

Please let me know your thoughts


I think you have gaps in understanding.
a. argument doesn't say it determines popularity by data from accounting books. It maybe that analysts took feedback and generated these reports. Argument clearly says : Many gardeners believe . We don't know what is basis of their belief.
b. Argument doesn't say popularity of clemati. But top most clemaity is jackmanii. It maybe that clemati is only 1% of total sales of largest nursery.

Point is : it is easy to break down new claims as there are endless possibilities.
But if we stick what is given in passage, it would narrow down to options that can not be challenged.

Example:
Why argument says that at least 10% number is enough to say that it is most popular? What if there are more than 10 options, and one of them has over 10% sale. So CHANCES ARE ( not 100%) that this more than 10% sale could be MOST famous.

other assumptions could be:
jackmanii is not sold differently than other type of clematies( means jackmanii was not given as free/package with any sale . it was sold normally like other type of clemani)
You can think of other assumptions that can not be challenged.
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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]
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jabhatta2 wrote:
VeritasKarishma wrote:
jabhatta2 wrote:
VeritasKarishma GMATNinja GMATNinjaTwo -

For option A -- I see option A as an "INFERENCE" and not an assumption

Per my understanding, Inferences are different than assumptions

Why is option A an assumption and not perhaps an INFERENCE ?



Break down the argument into its components:

Premises:
10% of clematis plants sold are jackmanii.

Conclusion:
Jackmanii is the most popular clematis plant.

What if there were only 2 varieties of clematis plants? 10% were jackmanii and 90% mackmanii. Will jackmanii be most popular? No.
What if there were only 10 varieties of clematis plants? Each sold 10%. Will jackmanii be most popular? No. If any plant sold less than 10%, another plant would have sold more than 10% to make up for it. Then that plant would be most popular. So jackmanii cannot be most popular if there are only 10 varieties.

We need to have more than 10 varieties for it to be possible.
So option (A) is necessary for conclusion to hold. Hence it is the assumption.

An inference is what we can infer from the given premises of the argument. It is the conclusion of the argument. This argument already has a conclusion. Option (A) can be inferred if the given conclusion is taken to be true. But an inference should be derived from the premises. An argument that asks you for an inference will not have a conclusion.


Thank you VeritasKarishma for responding - just curious, if option A was just the following :

Option A instead ) In the largest nursery in America , No other variety of clematis sold more than hundred thousand plants

Would this be an assumption as well ?

I think it is a necessary assumption but it just seems to be an inference to me ( I understand that in CR arguments, inferences questions will not have conclusions) but if option A has said what i just said above, i would immediately -- just say -- that is not really an assumption, it seems almost like an inference



jabhatta2 - Don't get lost in terminology. The statement you mention will be an assumption because you need it to be true for the conclusion to hold.

The question will tell you what it is asking for.

A question that asks for a conclusion will not have a conclusion in the argument. You need to find what will be true as per given premises.
A question that asks for an assumption will certainly have a conclusion in the argument. You need to find what must be true for the conclusion to hold.

Note that both conclusion and assumption need to be true as per the given argument. The role they play in the argument depends on what is given in the argument.
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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]
This gardening question was really difficult for me. Your website is really helpful!
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Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]
Hello All,

I am a little confused. It can be that jackmanii is the number 1 sold clematis vine of the biggest nursery in NA and at the same time, that some other variety of clematis is the most popular among gardeners in NA.

In other words, the biggest nursery isn't necessarily representative of all gardeners when it comes to popularity of clematis.

For example, the most sold juice from NA's biggest juice factory could be orange juice, but it could be that all other factories in NA only produce apple juice.

Could someone please elaborate? I'm quite new to the GMAT.

Thanks
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