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Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most

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Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]

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Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most popular among gardeners in North America is jackmanii. This belief is apparently correct since, of the one million clematis plants sold per year by the largest clematis nursery in North America, ten percent are jackmanii.

Which of the following is an assumption on which the argument depends?

(A) The nursery sells more than 10 different varieties of clematis
(B) The largest clematis nursery in North America sells nothing but clematis plants
(C) Some of the jackmanii sold by the nursery are sold to gardeners outside North America
(D) Most North American gardeners grow clematis in their gardens
(E) For all nurseries in North America that specialize in clematis, at least 10% of the clematis plants they sell are jackmanii.
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA

Last edited by hazelnut on 21 Jun 2017, 19:46, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]

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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]

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New post 07 Aug 2015, 22:10
10% of sale and most popular means that there is more than 10 types exist

A is correct

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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]

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Opening up this thread for discussion.

What if inspite of having "more than 10 varieties of clemantis", we have 1 variety, other than jackmanii, which accounts for 12% of the sales? In this case, inspite of the option A being true, we have a scenario in which the conclusion doesn't hold. In short, option A confuses me as an assumption.

Can anyone help me understand where my fallacy lies?

P.s. This is an Official Question from Verbal Review 2016 (Question 75). Can the moderators add the relevant tags?

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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]

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New post 27 Mar 2016, 04:06
AmoyV wrote:
Opening up this thread for discussion.

What if inspite of having "more than 10 varieties of clemantis", we have 1 variety, other than jackmanii, which accounts for 12% of the sales? In this case, inspite of the option A being true, we have a scenario in which the conclusion doesn't hold. In short, option A confuses me as an assumption.

Can anyone help me understand where my fallacy lies?

P.s. This is an Official Question from Verbal Review 2016 (Question 75). Can the moderators add the relevant tags?



I had the same question in mind, I only picked A as none of the other options are appropriate.!!

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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]

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The best way to answer this question is via negation technique.

A states - "The nursery sells more than 10 different varieties of clematis"
Negate A: The nursery sells less than 10 different varieties of clematis. --> Out of 1 million if less than 10 varieties are sold, then there is atleast one variety ( >10% popularity) which is more popular than Jackmanii (10% popularity) --> Conclusion breaks down.

A is the correct answer.

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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]

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AnuragRatna wrote:
Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most popular among gardeners in North America is jackmanii. This belief is apparently correct since, of the one million clematis plants sold per year by the largest clematis nursery in North America, ten percent are jackmanii.

Which of the following is an assumption on which the argument depends?

a.The nursery sells more than 10 different varieties of clematis
b.the largest clematis nursery in North America sells nothing but clematis plants
c.some of the jackmanii sold by the nursery are sold to gardeners outside North America
d.most North American gardeners grow clematis in their gardens
e.For all nurseries in North America that specialize in clematis, at least 10% of the clematis plants they sell are jackmanii.


Hi,

there has been a discussion on the validity of A as the answer.

PARA says that of all the plants sold, 10% are jackmanii and Jackmanii is the most popular among gardeners..

A tells us--
a.The nursery sells more than 10 different varieties of clematis ..
yes you can say that it does not guarantee that jackmanii is the most popular, It is possible that with even 12 varieties, there is some variety that may be more than 10%..
But 'Assumption' is something without which the argument CANNOT stand..
this is exactly the same happening here..
Is it possible that varieties are less than 10 and still jackmanii with 10% is the most popular-- NO
Because there will be atleast one variety more than 10% in that case and Jackmanii will not be the most popular..


So this is a VALID assumption..
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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]

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New post 27 Mar 2016, 04:49
chetan2u wrote:
AnuragRatna wrote:
Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most popular among gardeners in North America is jackmanii. This belief is apparently correct since, of the one million clematis plants sold per year by the largest clematis nursery in North America, ten percent are jackmanii.

Which of the following is an assumption on which the argument depends?

a.The nursery sells more than 10 different varieties of clematis
b.the largest clematis nursery in North America sells nothing but clematis plants
c.some of the jackmanii sold by the nursery are sold to gardeners outside North America
d.most North American gardeners grow clematis in their gardens
e.For all nurseries in North America that specialize in clematis, at least 10% of the clematis plants they sell are jackmanii.


Hi,

there has been a discussion on the validity of A as the answer.

PARA says that of all the plants sold, 10% are jackmanii and Jackmanii is the most popular among gardeners..

A tells us--
a.The nursery sells more than 10 different varieties of clematis ..
yes you can say that it does not guarantee that jackmanii is the most popular, It is possible that with even 12 varieties, there is some variety that may be more than 10%..
But 'Assumption' is something without which the argument CANNOT stand..
this is exactly the same happening here..
Is it possible that varieties are less than 10 and still jackmanii with 10% is the most popular-- NO
Because there will be atleast one variety more than 10% in that case and Jackmanii will not be the most popular..


So this is a VALID assumption..



This explains it.. Thank you very much :)

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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]

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AnuragRatna wrote:
Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most popular among gardeners in North America is jackmanii. This belief is apparently correct since, of the one million clematis plants sold per year by the largest clematis nursery in North America, ten percent are jackmanii.

Which of the following is an assumption on which the argument depends?

a.The nursery sells more than 10 different varieties of clematis
b.the largest clematis nursery in North America sells nothing but clematis plants
c.some of the jackmanii sold by the nursery are sold to gardeners outside North America
d.most North American gardeners grow clematis in their gardens
e.For all nurseries in North America that specialize in clematis, at least 10% of the clematis plants they sell are jackmanii.


We have to give support to the proof used to show that the Jackmanii is the most popular (10% of sales is Jackmanii,)

Suppose A was not true, and the nursery sells 10 plants, all ten species could have 10% sales each, and therefore Jackmanii would not be the most popular.
If there are 9 plants, there could be another plant with more than 10% sales, making that more popular.

Only if there are >10 plants sold at the nursery, the Jackmanii would be the most popular.

Hope its clear

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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]

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New post 11 Sep 2016, 07:09
Can anyone pls reason out why option E is incorrect.

Is it incorrect because the premise only talks about "the largest nursery", whereas the option generalizes to "all nurseries". Can this be a valid reason to reject option E.

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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]

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AnuragRatna wrote:
Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most popular among gardeners in North America is jackmanii. This belief is apparently correct since, of the one million clematis plants sold per year by the largest clematis nursery in North America, ten percent are jackmanii.

Which of the following is an assumption on which the argument depends?

a.The nursery sells more than 10 different varieties of clematis
b.the largest clematis nursery in North America sells nothing but clematis plants
c.some of the jackmanii sold by the nursery are sold to gardeners outside North America
d.most North American gardeners grow clematis in their gardens
e.For all nurseries in North America that specialize in clematis, at least 10% of the clematis plants they sell are jackmanii.


Conclusion says:

Jackmanii is most popular of all variets of clemantis. to proove this argument tells us that 10% of all clemantis are jackmanii

Lets say we have 100 plants sold in month. Now if 10 are jackmanii there is possibility that there exists another variety that is sold 50% or more then our conclusion goes down. To prevent conclusion agains this criticisism we need to say that theier exists atleast 10 variety of Clementis.

Option E: this can be falsified: what if there are only two varieties of clementis. then other varitey will be 90%. moreover we are concerned with overall sales of jackmanii So their can be another case where one of stores sells none and other sells more than 15%. So average again comes down to 10%

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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]

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New post 24 Sep 2016, 13:11
hi,

as per A, if there are 12 different varieties ( 1st variety- 1% , 2nd variety- 2%, 3rd variety- 3%, 4th variety- 4%, 5th variety - 25%, 6th variety- 6%, 7th variety- 7%, 8th variety- 8%, 9th variety- 9%, 10th variety- 10%, 11th variety- 15% and jackmani variety- 10%) then are 2 varieties still popular than jackmani having more than 10% i.e 5th variety and 11th variety. so,then option A cannot support the conclusion.
please explain.

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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]

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New post 24 Sep 2016, 22:45
DeepikaV wrote:
hi,

as per A, if there are 12 different varieties ( 1st variety- 1% , 2nd variety- 2%, 3rd variety- 3%, 4th variety- 4%, 5th variety - 25%, 6th variety- 6%, 7th variety- 7%, 8th variety- 8%, 9th variety- 9%, 10th variety- 10%, 11th variety- 15% and jackmani variety- 10%) then are 2 varieties still popular than jackmani having more than 10% i.e 5th variety and 11th variety. so,then option A cannot support the conclusion.
please explain.


The conclusion of the argument is based on the premise that 10% of Jackmani is sold.

Remember, Premise is a source of truth which cannot be disputed.

Your statement is actually breaking the premise which is not allowed.

So, since we have 10% of Jackmani sold and it is the largest, we MUST say that there is none which is greater than or equal to 10%.

Or We can say atleast 10 different varieties are present.
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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]

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New post 25 Sep 2016, 01:40
sayantanc2k and other experts
please help me, my understanding on this question totally wrong, and even after reading comments I am still not convinced.
Conclusion is belief is correct , now what is that belief; the variety of clematis vine that is most popular among gardeners in North America is jackmanii.
Here I thought we are talking about whole NA gardeners

premise to help on this will be based on single nursery, which is largest one. from here I started making assumptions .......
1) There must be other nurseries , which sell "varieties of clematis" and if they sell jackmanii as there also with highest percentage , then we can conclude the jackmanii is most popular one. I straight way discard A because it is talking about one nursery.

please help me understanding question first. What is part of the question which i wrongly understood.

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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]

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mbaprep2016 wrote:
sayantanc2k and other experts
please help me, my understanding on this question totally wrong, and even after reading comments I am still not convinced.
Conclusion is belief is correct , now what is that belief; the variety of clematis vine that is most popular among gardeners in North America is jackmanii.
Here I thought we are talking about whole NA gardeners

premise to help on this will be based on single nursery, which is largest one. from here I started making assumptions .......
1) There must be other nurseries , which sell "varieties of clematis" and if they sell jackmanii as there also with highest percentage , then we can conclude the jackmanii is most popular one. I straight way discard A because it is talking about one nursery.

please help me understanding question first. What is part of the question which i wrongly understood.


Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most popular among gardeners in North America is jackmanii. This belief is apparently correct since, of the one million clematis plants sold per year by the largest clematis nursery in North America, ten percent are jackmanii.

As per my understanding: there is no so called conclusion here. There is one belief that jaackmanii is most famous variety and to prove this author states of the one million plants sold by all the largest nursery 10% is jackmanii.
It takes into account all the large nursery....not one.

Now we need to find a suitable assumption to support this belief. My way of tackling is to find the opposite, which will destroy the argument. from here you can follow my comment above.

If you feel any difficulty please reply.

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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]

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New post 25 Sep 2016, 11:29
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mbaprep2016 wrote:
sayantanc2k and other experts
please help me, my understanding on this question totally wrong, and even after reading comments I am still not convinced.
Conclusion is belief is correct , now what is that belief; the variety of clematis vine that is most popular among gardeners in North America is jackmanii.
Here I thought we are talking about whole NA gardeners

premise to help on this will be based on single nursery, which is largest one. from here I started making assumptions .......
1) There must be other nurseries , which sell "varieties of clematis" and if they sell jackmanii as there also with highest percentage , then we can conclude the jackmanii is most popular one. I straight way discard A because it is talking about one nursery.

please help me understanding question first. What is part of the question which i wrongly understood.


The main point of the argument is as follows:

The belief is based on the fact that among all varieties of clematis, the jackmanii is the variety that is sold the most by the largest nursery.

Now if jackmanii constitutes 10% of the total sales by the nursery, then there must be more than ten varieties sold by the nursery - if there had been 10 or less no. of varieties sold, then there would have been at least one other variety that was sold 10% or more and thus jackmanii would not have been the one that was sold the most by the largest nursery.

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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]

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New post 25 Sep 2016, 22:09
sayantanc2k wrote:
mbaprep2016 wrote:
sayantanc2k and other experts
please help me, my understanding on this question totally wrong, and even after reading comments I am still not convinced.
Conclusion is belief is correct , now what is that belief; the variety of clematis vine that is most popular among gardeners in North America is jackmanii.
Here I thought we are talking about whole NA gardeners

premise to help on this will be based on single nursery, which is largest one. from here I started making assumptions .......
1) There must be other nurseries , which sell "varieties of clematis" and if they sell jackmanii as there also with highest percentage , then we can conclude the jackmanii is most popular one. I straight way discard A because it is talking about one nursery.

please help me understanding question first. What is part of the question which i wrongly understood.


The main point of the argument is as follows:

The belief is based on the fact that among all varieties of clematis, the jackmanii is the variety that is sold the most by the largest nursery.

Now if jackmanii constitutes 10% of the total sales by the nursery, then there must be more than ten varieties sold by the nursery - if there had been 10 or less no. of varieties sold, then there would have been at least one other variety that was sold 10% or more and thus jackmanii would not have been the one that was sold the most by the largest nursery.


sayantanc2k thanks for relying. I got my mistake I took fact as an conclusion. I got it thanks

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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]

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New post 27 Sep 2016, 01:09
rohitbhaya wrote:
Can anyone pls reason out why option E is incorrect.

Is it incorrect because the premise only talks about "the largest nursery", whereas the option generalizes to "all nurseries". Can this be a valid reason to reject option E.

As per my understanding, assumptions should be relate the premise with the conclusion. Here, the conclusion is based on the data from one nursery and it can't be generalized because the author has used "apparently correct" in the main passage.

Hope it helps :)

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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]

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New post 25 Jan 2017, 17:16
I realize I'm beating a dead horse here. But I'm still not getting how answer choice A makes the authors conclusion true.

Let's throw out two scenarios, that seem to fit within the bounds of the prompt and answer choice A.

1) The largest nursery sells more than 10 varieties of Clematis (this is a fact). Jackmanii consists of 10% of sales, Another variety consists of 81% of sales and the remaining 8+ varieties make up the remaining 9% of sales. Is anything mentioned in the prompt that prevents another variety from being 81% of their sales? and if this were the case, wouldn't it invalidate Answer choice A?

2) The largest nursery in North America is the largest because it's market share is the largest, let's say it's 30%. But there are 70 other, smaller nurseries each with 1% market share. Sure, 10% (or one million) of the plants sold by the largest nursery are Jackmanii (It's their most popular item), but 100% of the clematis sales made by the other 70 nurseries are all Variety X (Not Jackmanni). If that were the case, then wouldn't Variety X make up 70% of North America's clematis sales and Jackmanni make up less than 10%? Is anything mentioned in the prompt that prevents this scenario from being the case? and if this were the case, wouldn't it invalidate Answer choice A?


Note: I know that I'm wrong, I'm just not sure why. Thanks for helping me.

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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most [#permalink]

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New post 25 Jan 2017, 17:34
If j is 10% then others must have to be less than 10%. If there are fewer than 10 types, then some of them must exceed 10%. So A is the correct answer.
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Re: Many gardeners believe that the variety of clematis vine that is most   [#permalink] 25 Jan 2017, 17:34

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