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Re: Strategy of v40+ performers under time pressure [#permalink]
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adkikani wrote:
GMATNinja

Based on your decade of experience of mentoring students (not to make you sound
less younger) can you associate a raw value score to distinguish between timing and
conceptual gaps?

Eg: A raw score of V 30 is related to a person not able to apply concepts well

A raw score if V 40 means he knows the rules and applications but can not perform
under clock running, partially because of less practice or getting anxious.

Looking forward to hear from you. :-)

Actually, saying just "a decade of experience" makes me sound younger. In order to preserve fantasies that I'm still youthful, I won't say how long I've actually been teaching. ;)

On to your question: there's no simple rules that could possibly be applied in these situations. I can think of a whole ton of reasons why somebody might earn a 30V instead of something higher:

  • Poor fundamental reading skills in English (inability to understand the exact meaning of sentences/paragraphs/passages with much precision)
  • Slow reading (test-taker might be able to understand language well, but can't do so quickly enough to finish the section in time)
  • Lack of understanding of fundamental grammar/usage rules in English
  • Inability to apply those grammar/usage rules, even if they understand those rules
  • Test anxiety
  • Bad, sloppy test-taking habits (reading too quickly, accidentally clicking the wrong "button" on a question, etc.)
  • Bad time management (getting bizarrely stubborn on a few questions, leading to scrambling elsewhere in the section)
  • Misunderstanding the logic behind certain question types (assumptions or inferences, for example)
  • Inability to focus fully for the duration of the exam

And I could go on. Bottom line: it would be a massive oversimplification to suggest that test-takers who score at a certain level have anything in particular in common. We're all individuals, and the things that cause us trouble -- even on the very same exam -- are as different as we are from each other.

I hope this helps!
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GMATNinja wrote:
I think it might be helpful to think of this as two separate issues:

1) Can you be faster -- or at least more efficient -- in how you answer questions?
2) If you can't realistically answer all 41 questions comfortably, what timing strategies should you employ?

I don't think you're asking about the first issue here. And that question would take forever to answer accurately and thoroughly, anyway! But there's plenty of material here on GMAT Club that can help you become more efficient on verbal, and you're probably already working hard at that. :)

But is there anything that you can do strategically to help manage your time on verbal? I don't really think so, to be honest.

Here's the thing: on an adaptive test like the GMAT, your score isn't really based on how many questions you miss. It's based on which questions you miss, since the algorithm is basically trying to find the level of question at which you get roughly 50% correct. So if you miss easy questions, the algorithm will give you more easy questions, and then you're in trouble. But if you miss hard questions? Not a big deal, as long as you get the easier ones right.

On quant, the strategy is simple enough: if you don't know how to answer a question, guess and move on, so that you save your time for the stuff you can handle. But you can't really do that on verbal. By the time you realize that a question is difficult, you're probably 80% or 90% finished with the question. And at that point, it's silly to guess unless you're absolutely stuck -- if that extra little bit of time will help you get the question right, you might as well spend it.

And in general, there's no good way to cut corners on verbal. If you try to consciously "speed up", you might end up misreading passages or sentences -- and then you risk missing easy questions. And on an adaptive test, that can ruin your day.

So all you can really do is keep answering questions as efficiently as you can until you're almost out of time, and then guess toward the end. Imagine, for example, that you can only answer 36 questions thoroughly, and you have to guess on the last 5. That's not a big deal: if you've taken care of business on the first 36, the last five will be HARD. And you can afford to miss them if they're that hard.

I've seen this in action plenty of times. Occasionally, I have students who are simply ridiculously slow readers. Even after they've maximized their efficiency on verbal, they're still slow -- and I've seen plenty of them score in the low 40s on verbal (low-to-mid 700s composite), even though they had to guess on a few at the end. It's not a big deal, as long as you're super-accurate before those last few questions. I suppose that you could try to be a little bit strategic toward the very end of the test -- guessing, for example, on CR if you tend to be slower at those, and saving your time for the last couple of SCs. But that won't really save you much time, unless you're MUCH slower at CR than SC.

Again, if you can just become better and faster at verbal, that might solve the entire problem. But I otherwise, I wouldn't over-think your timing strategy on verbal. Just answer questions to the best of your ability until you start to run out of time, and then pray for some lucky guesses at the end of the test. But a few guesses at the end definitely won't, by themselves, cause a score meltdown.

I hope this helps!


WAW GMATNinja, you are my superhero! This is what I am looking for!

I am non-native speaker, and surprisingly just started to learn seriously on English grammar in last year. Therefore, all of Verbal section on GMAT give serious problems for me. In the last GMAT mock test, I skipped all of the RC passage just to make sure that I could finish all of the SC and CR - this strategy ended up with 8 minutes left on the Verbal section and - of course - relative low score :oops: :oops:
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Re: Strategy of v40+ performers under time pressure [#permalink]
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ramukaka wrote:
Hi folks
A question from someone striving to achieve V40+ . How do they deal with solving 700-800 level CR questions in 2 mins and that for SC in 1 min ? People say that you can't . In that case if you stretch the those difficult CR to 3 mins or more and difficult SC to 2 mins or more you would fall short of time and run into the risk of guessing answers towards the end of the exam. The result of that might be a continuous series of wrong answers towards the end affecting your score and putting it below V40 .

Please guide me here.

ram


Sent from my iPhone using GMAT Club Forum mobile app


If your concepts are generally good, do a lot of timed tests by intentionally stretching your capabilities in terms of speed of answering questions. Maybe give yourself a few minutes less per session than actual GMAT would allow and this should make your mind adjust to dealing with questions quicker.
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septwibowo wrote:
GMATNinja wrote:
I think it might be helpful to think of this as two separate issues:

1) Can you be faster -- or at least more efficient -- in how you answer questions?
2) If you can't realistically answer all 41 questions comfortably, what timing strategies should you employ?

I don't think you're asking about the first issue here. And that question would take forever to answer accurately and thoroughly, anyway! But there's plenty of material here on GMAT Club that can help you become more efficient on verbal, and you're probably already working hard at that. :)

But is there anything that you can do strategically to help manage your time on verbal? I don't really think so, to be honest.

Here's the thing: on an adaptive test like the GMAT, your score isn't really based on how many questions you miss. It's based on which questions you miss, since the algorithm is basically trying to find the level of question at which you get roughly 50% correct. So if you miss easy questions, the algorithm will give you more easy questions, and then you're in trouble. But if you miss hard questions? Not a big deal, as long as you get the easier ones right.

On quant, the strategy is simple enough: if you don't know how to answer a question, guess and move on, so that you save your time for the stuff you can handle. But you can't really do that on verbal. By the time you realize that a question is difficult, you're probably 80% or 90% finished with the question. And at that point, it's silly to guess unless you're absolutely stuck -- if that extra little bit of time will help you get the question right, you might as well spend it.

And in general, there's no good way to cut corners on verbal. If you try to consciously "speed up", you might end up misreading passages or sentences -- and then you risk missing easy questions. And on an adaptive test, that can ruin your day.

So all you can really do is keep answering questions as efficiently as you can until you're almost out of time, and then guess toward the end. Imagine, for example, that you can only answer 36 questions thoroughly, and you have to guess on the last 5. That's not a big deal: if you've taken care of business on the first 36, the last five will be HARD. And you can afford to miss them if they're that hard.

I've seen this in action plenty of times. Occasionally, I have students who are simply ridiculously slow readers. Even after they've maximized their efficiency on verbal, they're still slow -- and I've seen plenty of them score in the low 40s on verbal (low-to-mid 700s composite), even though they had to guess on a few at the end. It's not a big deal, as long as you're super-accurate before those last few questions. I suppose that you could try to be a little bit strategic toward the very end of the test -- guessing, for example, on CR if you tend to be slower at those, and saving your time for the last couple of SCs. But that won't really save you much time, unless you're MUCH slower at CR than SC.

Again, if you can just become better and faster at verbal, that might solve the entire problem. But I otherwise, I wouldn't over-think your timing strategy on verbal. Just answer questions to the best of your ability until you start to run out of time, and then pray for some lucky guesses at the end of the test. But a few guesses at the end definitely won't, by themselves, cause a score meltdown.

I hope this helps!


WAW GMATNinja, you are my superhero! This is what I am looking for!

I am non-native speaker, and surprisingly just started to learn seriously on English grammar in last year. Therefore, all of Verbal section on GMAT give serious problems for me. In the last GMAT mock test, I skipped all of the RC passage just to make sure that I could finish all of the SC and CR - this strategy ended up with 8 minutes left on the Verbal section and - of course - relative low score :oops: :oops:



Hey, as I can fully connect with "the timing on verbal" I'd like to add my experience here. I have tried two things actually and here is what I noticed. For both situations I had around 15 mins for the last 10 questions and both tests were around the same time during my prep (so my competency was roughly the same).

1. After 3 questions which I did sanely (for 1-1.30 mins for each), I got an RC with 4 questions. Since, I didn't want to miss it. I gave it a quick reading (which took around 2 mins) and attempted all questions in just a single reading, i.e, under 30 secs for each questions. And then rushed through rest of the CR and SC questions, giving avg 1 min to each.
I found that I was able to get just 1 RC question correct and 2 question from the rest as correct. But reviewing the questions, I found that If I could have given the last 2 choices a little more though, like 15 secs more, I could have got them correct. But to be able to do that I had to skip/ mark randomly all 4 questions of my RC (assuming all wrong).

2. So, in another attempt I did that. Even after putting in a lot of effort, and not giving up my accuracy, I still had around 15 mins for last 10 questions. This time I completely skipped the RC without even reading it. This time I accidentally got 1 RC answer correct, but from the rest of the SC and CR questions I got just 1 wrong.

However, in both these cases I scored the same 35. But personally, I felt much better while doing the second one, in which I totally skipped the last RC. As I am generally more comfortable in SC and CR than RC, I felt much confident and invested my time in getting probably more right answers. Also, in the first scenario my accuracy went down drastically as I was barely skimming through the last 7-8 questions. So, all of those questions were at much more risk than they were in the second case.

Experts: I request you to please comment on my little experiment. And which one do you think will be better?
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Ideally, you would answer the easier verbal questions in well under two minutes each, thus leaving extra time that you can use when answering the hardest verbal questions so that you can spend more than two minutes each on some of the hardest questions.

Alternatively, since there are not that many super hard questions in the verbal section, when answering those questions, you could narrow the choices down to two or three and guess, so that you don't take more than two minutes to answer them. You can score V40+ while missing a few of the hardest questions.
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dcoolguy wrote:

Thank you very much GMATNinja, this is such an insightful explanation about timing.
Well, I just want to confirm a thing. you said system adjust your defficulty level as per your inputs. Does it mean if someone is answering medium level question with an sccuracy of 50% and easy ones with 80% (1-2 silly mistakes on easy ones. )- he will keep getting medium question or the question type will be fluctuating between - easy to medium, in that is it still possible to score V35+, even after gussing on last 4-5 question?

I am able to solve medium question in all formats with 75-80% accuracy by taking extra 2-3 minuts per question (In SC maybe 2min Cr 4-5, RC 3-4 min per Qn), but when I try to solve under time pressure, I get about 50% accuracy (reason is I am able to comprehend but a slow reader).
but I do solve easy ones with 80-90% accuracy under time.

1. Is my 50% accuracy ok for medium ones under timed and is it ok to miss few easy one (1-2 due to silly mistakes)?

because I am a slow reader, I take more time in lengthy sections (RC>CR>SC- extra timing order), so there is no way I can attempt 4 RC, I can attempt 2 RCs with good accuracy not sure about 3 (I can try). I have reached a pleatue and I can't improve my score through Gmat concepts anymore, because I am a slow reader. I am planning to take my test in one month, seeking for atleast V35.

2. Whats the best thing I can do? in each section?

Sometimes I think I am close to my desired score, sometimes it looks far away :(

It would a great help, If I can get an expert opinion.

Thank you :please:

I'll be blunt: if you're making sloppy errors on the easy questions, you're playing with fire. Your scores are going to be incredibly unstable if you make careless errors, and it's impossible to even guess what will happen under the circumstances you've described. If you make errors on easy questions, there's a chance that you never even see medium questions. Maybe you'll get lucky, and you won't make your careless errors until after the questions have gotten more difficult. But maybe not.

In other words: I don't think there's any real value in asking hypothetical questions about your score, based on the data you've provided. The more important question: what can you to do to improve on the things that matter?

Sure, reading speed is largely "baked in" by the time you hit adulthood, and there might not be a whole lot you can do to change it. But is your approach to verbal questions really optimal? For example, are you over-reading passages, fixating on details that aren't really worth your time? Are you skimming passages too quickly, forcing you to stumble inefficiently through the questions? Are you obsessing over non-existent "rules" on SC, while ignoring the most efficient opportunities to eliminate answer choices? These sorts of things are exactly the focus of all of our verbal videos.

Honestly, based on the data you've provided (which obviously is pretty general, and certainly merits many grains of salt), it's going to be a real struggle to get into the mid-30s on verbal. I don't think it's possible to score that high if you make careless errors AND struggle on medium-level questions AND come nowhere close to finishing the section on time. But you can always take an official mba.com test and see for yourself.

And more importantly: you need to take a good, hard look at ways to improve your underlying processes, and don't waste too much of your time with score hypotheticals -- they aren't a good use of your energy, especially when it's clear that you have all sorts of more important battles to fight on verbal.

I'm sure that this isn't the most reassuring thing you've read today, but I hope it helps a bit!
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GMATNinja wrote:
Imagine, for example, that you can only answer 36 questions thoroughly, and you have to guess on the last 5. That's not a big deal: if you've taken care of business on the first 36, the last five will be HARD. And you can afford to miss them if they're that hard.


GMATNinja thank you for the insights, I have a question...I usually have trouble keeping up with time...If I happen to run out of time when I'm at the last 3-4 questions...and I have about 2 minutes left...and I am faced with an RC passage, should I spend the 2 mins trying to answer only the first rc passage, or just randomly pick answers for the remaining 3-4 questions..

what impact does skipping questions at the end have on the overall score? I am aware that the GMAT penalizes students heavily for not completing the quant section...but that does work on the verbal section also?

should I be more concerned with attempting all questions...or more concerned with accuracy at the end??
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katesizon wrote:
Hello dear expert GMATNinja!

Does it mean the algorithm(system) will start produce High level questions after you have reached more than 50% of medium level questions and was consistent in doing so in the verbal section or it can be any score more than 50% that would signal the system to start to produce high level question? It is understandable that no one knows for sure how the system works. You may have an idea from the experience of your students:)
Thank You!

The scoring algorithm is much more nuanced than that. Think of it this way: every question has a difficulty level, and those levels are much more nuanced than just "easy", "medium", and "high." (For any statistics geeks reading this: question difficulty is a continuous variable, not a discrete one.)

Every time the GMAT algorithm offers you a new question, it's taking into account your entire performance up to that point in the section. So sure, we can come up with simple soundbytes that are broadly correct ("if you miss a whole bunch of easy questions, you won't see harder ones, and your score will be low"), but there aren't any magic thresholds.

I think it's enough to just recognize that the better you perform, the harder the questions will get. And the really important thing is that if you miss questions that are easy for you, you'll underperform your ability level, and won't ultimately be happy with your score.

Beyond that, I wouldn't waste too much time worrying about the exact workings of the GMAT's three-parameter logistical model. :dazed :)

I hope that helps a bit!
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For V40+, working on solving approach can be helpful. Probably fair to say it's what I get approached for most when it comes to Verbal tutoring. Time management techniques and learning how to tackle certain question types can be helpful to take the edge off a section.

Past Student (Official V31 to Official V40 ~30 days):

https://gmatclub.com/forum/gmat-online- ... 68599.html
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Kimberly77 wrote:
Thanks GMATNinja that all your explanations here are very helpful.

One thing I'm not clear is RC timing. What's the required timing in exam for RC passage (long/short) with 3/4 questions and one is primary purpose question? Thanks

This is a good question, and it's a tricky one to answer succinctly. On the GMAT Focus, you've got a bit under 2 minutes per question on average -- but that's not super helpful for RC, where you'll spend a lot more time on the first question ­because you also have to read the whole passage.

Here's one thought: if you have super-strict time hacks (such as "3 minutes to read the passage! 1:20 to answer each question!") then you'll end up obsessing over the clock. This is a massive distraction from just answering the freaking questions.

Here's another thought: let's say that you're "too slow" on RC. What can you do about it? That depends entirely on WHY you're slow. If you are just getting stubborn on one tough question and that's dragging your average speed down, then the solution is to be willing to let go earlier when you are stumped.

If, on the other hand, you skim through the passage and have to re-read the whole thing multiple times, then the solution is to give yourself more time on the first read-through. If it's a reading speed issue, that's an entirely different story -- increasing your reading speed while maintaining high accuracy is an incredibly hard thing to do, and it will likely take you months of practice to gradually reduce the amount of time it takes you to get through a passage.

In all, that leaves us with this RC timing strategy:

  1. You have to know exactly what you're supposed to get out of the first read-through of the passage -- check out this article or this RC video for more details.
  2. You have to give yourself time to do this properly -- skimming is inefficient and will lead to errors.
  3. Once you've done a solid read of the passage, you have to give yourself time to carefully read the questions and go through process of elimination on the answer choices. There are no shortcuts here.
  4. If you're stumped on a question, you have to be willing to guess and move on. As a general rule of thumb, give yourself two shots to assess your answer choices -- if you still can't make eliminations, guess and go to the next question.

So, where does that leave you in terms of time for a passage and 3 or 4 questions? Well, again, it should average out to roughly 2 minutes per question. But the reality is that you can't rush things, or impose artificial limits on your time -- so just commit to being as systematic as possible on RC questions, and don't let yourself get bogged down on a particularly tough question.

I hope that helps a bit!

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Re: Strategy of v40+ performers under time pressure [#permalink]
GMATNinja

Based on your decade of experience of mentoring students (not to make you sound
less younger) can you associate a raw value score to distinguish between timing and
conceptual gaps?

Eg: A raw score of V 30 is related to a person not able to apply concepts well

A raw score if V 40 means he knows the rules and applications but can not perform
under clock running, partially because of less practice or getting anxious.

Looking forward to hear from you. :-)
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Strategy of v40+ performers under time pressure [#permalink]
Dear GmatNinja,

Thanks a lot for this valuable post. Will definitely use this quant/ verbal timing/guessing strategy. My score was 590 Q 47, V 25. I felt nervous in verbal , so focused only on SC ( got 72%) and messed up in CR and RC.
I guessed a lot in the latter ones.

Thanks a lot
Regards
Basim

Posted from my mobile device
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Re: Strategy of v40+ performers under time pressure [#permalink]
Here's the thing: on an adaptive test like the GMAT, your score isn't really based on how many questions you miss. It's based on which questions you miss, since the algorithm is basically trying to find the level of question at which you get roughly 50% correct. So if you miss easy questions, the algorithm will give you more easy questions, and then you're in trouble. But if you miss hard questions? Not a big deal, as long as you get the easier ones right.
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Re: Strategy of v40+ performers under time pressure [#permalink]
Here's the thing: on an adaptive test like the GMAT, your score isn't really based on how many questions you miss. It's based on which questions you miss, since the algorithm is basically trying to find the level of question at which you get roughly 50% correct. So if you miss easy questions, the algorithm will give you more easy questions, and then you're in trouble. But if you miss hard questions? Not a big deal, as long as you get the easier ones right.

Hello dear expert GMATNinja!

Does it mean the algorithm(system) will start produce High level questions after you have reached more than 50% of medium level questions and was consistent in doing so in the verbal section or it can be any score more than 50% that would signal the system to start to produce high level question? It is understandable that no one knows for sure how the system works. You may have an idea from the experience of your students:)
Thank You!
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GMATNinja wrote:
I think it might be helpful to think of this as two separate issues:

1) Can you be faster -- or at least more efficient -- in how you answer questions?
2) If you can't realistically answer all 41 questions comfortably, what timing strategies should you employ?

I don't think you're asking about the first issue here. And that question would take forever to answer accurately and thoroughly, anyway! But there's plenty of material here on GMAT Club that can help you become more efficient on verbal, and you're probably already working hard at that. :)

But is there anything that you can do strategically to help manage your time on verbal? I don't really think so, to be honest.

Here's the thing: on an adaptive test like the GMAT, your score isn't really based on how many questions you miss. It's based on which questions you miss, since the algorithm is basically trying to find the level of question at which you get roughly 50% correct. So if you miss easy questions, the algorithm will give you more easy questions, and then you're in trouble. But if you miss hard questions? Not a big deal, as long as you get the easier ones right.

On quant, the strategy is simple enough: if you don't know how to answer a question, guess and move on, so that you save your time for the stuff you can handle. But you can't really do that on verbal. By the time you realize that a question is difficult, you're probably 80% or 90% finished with the question. And at that point, it's silly to guess unless you're absolutely stuck -- if that extra little bit of time will help you get the question right, you might as well spend it.

And in general, there's no good way to cut corners on verbal. If you try to consciously "speed up", you might end up misreading passages or sentences -- and then you risk missing easy questions. And on an adaptive test, that can ruin your day.

So all you can really do is keep answering questions as efficiently as you can until you're almost out of time, and then guess toward the end. Imagine, for example, that you can only answer 36 questions thoroughly, and you have to guess on the last 5. That's not a big deal: if you've taken care of business on the first 36, the last five will be HARD. And you can afford to miss them if they're that hard.

I've seen this in action plenty of times. Occasionally, I have students who are simply ridiculously slow readers. Even after they've maximized their efficiency on verbal, they're still slow -- and I've seen plenty of them score in the low 40s on verbal (low-to-mid 700s composite), even though they had to guess on a few at the end. It's not a big deal, as long as you're super-accurate before those last few questions. I suppose that you could try to be a little bit strategic toward the very end of the test -- guessing, for example, on CR if you tend to be slower at those, and saving your time for the last couple of SCs. But that won't really save you much time, unless you're MUCH slower at CR than SC.

Again, if you can just become better and faster at verbal, that might solve the entire problem. But I otherwise, I wouldn't over-think your timing strategy on verbal. Just answer questions to the best of your ability until you start to run out of time, and then pray for some lucky guesses at the end of the test. But a few guesses at the end definitely won't, by themselves, cause a score meltdown.

I hope this helps!


Thank you very much GMATNinja, this is such an insightful explanation about timing.
Well, I just want to confirm a thing. you said system adjust your defficulty level as per your inputs. Does it mean if someone is answering medium level question with an sccuracy of 50% and easy ones with 80% (1-2 silly mistakes on easy ones. )- he will keep getting medium question or the question type will be fluctuating between - easy to medium, in that is it still possible to score V35+, even after gussing on last 4-5 question?

I am able to solve medium question in all formats with 75-80% accuracy by taking extra 2-3 minuts per question (In SC maybe 2min Cr 4-5, RC 3-4 min per Qn), but when I try to solve under time pressure, I get about 50% accuracy (reason is I am able to comprehend but a slow reader).
but I do solve easy ones with 80-90% accuracy under time.

1. Is my 50% accuracy ok for medium ones under timed and is it ok to miss few easy one (1-2 due to silly mistakes)?

because I am a slow reader, I take more time in lengthy sections (RC>CR>SC- extra timing order), so there is no way I can attempt 4 RC, I can attempt 2 RCs with good accuracy not sure about 3 (I can try). I have reached a pleatue and I can't improve my score through Gmat concepts anymore, because I am a slow reader. I am planning to take my test in one month, seeking for atleast V35.

2. Whats the best thing I can do? in each section?

Sometimes I think I am close to my desired score, sometimes it looks far away :(

It would a great help, If I can get an expert opinion.

Thank you :please:
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Re: Strategy of v40+ performers under time pressure [#permalink]
...in that is it still possible to score V35+, even after gussing on last 4-5 question?

Consider using time markers if you are finding yourself guessing on these many questions. While it may be technically possible to score a V35+ in such a situation, a person would probably be doing very well beforehand and/or get lucky on the last 5.
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Re: Strategy of v40+ performers under time pressure [#permalink]
Thanks GMATNinja that all your explanations here are very helpful.
One thing I'm not clear is RC timing. What's the required timing in exam for RC passage (long/short) with 3/4 questions and one is primary purpose question? Thanks
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