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Re: Two dice are tossed once. The probability of getting an even number at [#permalink]
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+1 D

Great question.
Remember that the "OR formula" is:

P(A) OR P(B) = P(A) + P(B) - P(A and B)

In this case, A and B can take place together, so the value of P(A and B) is greater than 0.
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Re: Two dice are tossed once. The probability of getting an even number at [#permalink]
Bunuel, could you please explain why the probability of getting 'four' on both dices is 1/36 and not 1/18? Why don't we make a difference between 4 on dice 1 and four on dice ?

I mean why the combination 4'4'' is the same as 4''4' (apostrophe symbolizes the dice: ' = dice number one, '' = dice number two).

I have encountered many probability problems, where events that are identical are differentiated. For example:

Quote:
A 5 meter long wire is cut into two pieces. The longer piece is then used to form a perimeter of a square. What is the probability that the area of the square will be more than 1 if the original wire is cut at an arbitrary point?

1/6
1/5
3/10
1/3
2/5

OA:


In the example above the probability is 2/5.

Could you please explain the difference?

Originally posted by nonameee on 21 Feb 2012, 02:10.
Last edited by nonameee on 21 Feb 2012, 02:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Two dice are tossed once. The probability of getting an even number at [#permalink]
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nonameee wrote:
Bunuel, could you please explain why the probability of getting 'four' on both dices is 1/36 and not 1/18? Why don't we make a difference between 4 on dice 1 and four on dice ?

I mean why the combination 4'4'' is the same as 4''4' (apostrophe symbolizes the dice: ' = dice number one, '' = dice number two).



We can get combination of (2, 6) in two ways: 2 on die A and 6 on die B OR 2 on die B and 6 on die A;

Whereas (4, 4) has only one combination: 4 on on die A and 4 on die B, it has no second combination, since 4 on die B and 4 on die A is exact same combination.


nonameee wrote:
I have encountered many probability problems, where events that are identical are differentiated. For example:

Quote:
A 5 meter long wire is cut into two pieces. The longer piece is then used to form a perimeter of a square. What is the probability that the area of the square will be more than 1 if the original wire is cut at an arbitrary point?

1/6
1/5
3/10
1/3
2/5

OA:


In the example above the probability is 2/5.

Could you please explain the difference?


This is completely different problem. In order the area of a square to be more than 1 the side of it must be more than 1, or the perimeter more than 4. So the longer piece must be more than 4. Look at the diagram.

-----

If the wire will be cut anywhere at the red region then the rest of the wire (longer piece) will be more than 4 meter long. The probability of that is 2/5 (2 red pieces out of 5).

Answer: E.

Also discussed here: a-5-meter-long-wire-is-cut-into-two-pieces-if-the-longer-106448.html

Hope it helps.
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Re: Two dice are tossed once. The probability of getting an even number at [#permalink]
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Bumping for review and further discussion*. Get a kudos point for an alternative solution!

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Re: Two dice are tossed once. The probability of getting an even number at [#permalink]
I've done other problems in which the answer would simply come out from

1/2 + (1/2)(5/36)

That is first probability that we get an even number = 1/2
Second probability that we DON'T get an even number * Probability that we get a sum of 8 = (1/2)*(5/36)

Answer should be sum of both

Could someone please clarify why this approach is NOT valid?
Thanks!
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Re: Two dice are tossed once. The probability of getting an even number at [#permalink]
It is a very good question - I forgot to subtract the 3 cases in which the second dice will also show an even number - hence marked E, when the answer should be D...
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Re: Two dice are tossed once. The probability of getting an even number at [#permalink]
no calc required

half of the time the first dice will have even no. so prob will be greater than 1/2 as some cases extra when sum is 8.
so A,B,C ruled out

E gives 5 cases for sum 8.
but we know that sum cases will be common with "even condition" so D
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Re: Two dice are tossed once. The probability of getting an even number at [#permalink]
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Macsen wrote:
Two dice are tossed once. The probability of getting an even number at the first die or a total of 8 is

A. 1/36
B. 3/36
C. 11/36
D. 20/36
E. 23/36


When we roll two dice, there are 6 x 6 = 36 equally likely outcomes. From these 36 outcomes, we can get a total of 8 in the following ways:

6,2

2,6

4,4

5,3

3,5

The probability of each of these outcomes is 1/36, so the probability of getting a total of 8 is 5/36.

The probability of getting an even number on the first die is 1/2.

Recall that the probability of A or B is P(A or B) = P(A) + P(B) - P(A and B).

Let’s concentrate on P(A and B), which includes outcomes that have an even first roll AND a total of 8. The probability that the first die is even and the total of the two dice is 8 is 3/36 since (6,2), (2,6), and (4,4) are 3 of the 36 outcomes in which the first die is even and the total is 8.

Thus, the total probability of getting an even number on the first die OR a total of 8 is:

5/36 + 1/2 - 3/36 = 5/36 + 18/36 - 3/36 = 20/36

Answer: D
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Re: Two dice are tossed once. The probability of getting an even number at [#permalink]
We van just list out the possibilites.

2,1
2,2
2,3
2,4
2,5


2,6

3,5

4,1
4,2
4,3
4,4
4,5
4,6

5,3

6,1
6,2
6,3
6,4
6,5
6,6

So 20/36. 18 cases occur from the first dice being even. The other two cases are 3,5 and 5,3

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Re: Two dice are tossed once. The probability of getting an even number at [#permalink]
Bunuel wrote:
Macsen wrote:
Two dice are tossed once. The probability of getting an even number at the first die or a total of 8 is
A. 1/36
B. 3/36
C. 11/36
D. 20/36
E. 23/36


OR probability:
If Events A and B are independent, the probability that Event A OR Event B occurs is equal to the probability that Event A occurs plus the probability that Event B occurs minus the probability that both Events A and B occur: \(P(A \ or \ B) = P(A) + P(B) - P(A \ and \ B)\).

This is basically the same as 2 overlapping sets formula:
{total # of items in groups A or B} = {# of items in group A} + {# of items in group B} - {# of items in A and B}.

Note that if event are mutually exclusive then \(P(A \ and \ B)=0\) and the formula simplifies to: \(P(A \ or \ B) = P(A) + P(B)\).

Also note that when we say "A or B occurs" we include three possibilities:
A occurs and B does not occur;
B occurs and A does not occur;
Both A and B occur.

AND probability:
When two events are independent, the probability of both occurring is the product of the probabilities of the individual events: \(P(A \ and \ B) = P(A)*P(B)\).

This is basically the same as Principle of Multiplication: if one event can occur in \(m\) ways and a second can occur independently of the first in \(n\) ways, then the two events can occur in \(mn\) ways.

BACK TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION:
Two dice are tossed once. The probability of getting an even number at the first die or a total of 8 is
A. 1/36
B. 3/36
C. 11/36
D. 20/36
E. 23/36

1. The probability of getting an even number at the first die is 1/2 (as the probability of even = the probability of odd = 1/2);
2. The probability of getting a total of 8 is 5/6^2, as there are 5 different favorable scenarios: (2,6), (6,2), (3,5), (5,3) and (4,4);
3. The probability of getting an even number at the first die AND a total of 8 is 3/6^2 (from above case);

Hence, The probability of getting an even number at the first die OR a total of 8 is 1/2+5/36-3/36=20/36.

Answer: D.


Hi Bunuel,

I understood your explanation, but I am confused with the application of the formula i.e. for two Independent events P(A and B) = P(A) x P(B).
If we apply the formula in the above example, we get 1/2 x 5/36 = 5/72 and not 3/36.
Can you please explain if I am missing something?
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Re: Two dice are tossed once. The probability of getting an even number at [#permalink]
Macsen wrote:
Two dice are tossed once. The probability of getting an even number at the first die or a total of 8 is

A. 1/36
B. 3/36
C. 11/36
D. 20/36
E. 23/36


total possible outcomes for two dice: 36

Prob of getting an even number on the first die

3/6(first dice favourable case) * 6/6 (second dice favourable cases. =18/36

getting a sum of 8 (2,6)(6,2)(3,5)(5,3)(4,4) (4,4)
probability=6/36

now both of the above cases have some cases common to them
i.e. when the first die has an even number and the sum is also 8
there are 3 cases of this kind (2,6) (6,2) (4,4) (4,4)
prob=4/36

also P(A or B)=P(A) + P(B) - P(A & B)
so we have P(even or sum of 8) = 18/36 + 6/36 - 4/36
20/36
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Re: Two dice are tossed once. The probability of getting an even number at [#permalink]
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Solution:

For two events A and B,

P(A or B)=P(A) + P(B) - P(A & B)

P(A)=The probability of getting an even number at the first die = 3/6 = 1/2 {2,4,6 are the even numbers}

P(B)=The probability of getting a total of 8 = 5/36 {(2,6)(3,5)(4,4),(5,3),(6,2) with a sample space of 6^2=36}

The probability of getting an even number at the first die AND a total of 8 = 3/36 {(2,6),(4,4),(6,2)}

=>The probability of getting an even number at the first die OR a total of 8 = P(A) + P(B) - P(A & B)

= 1/2+5/36-3/36

=20/36 (option d)

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Two dice are tossed once. The probability of getting an even number at [#permalink]
Bunuel wrote:
Macsen wrote:
Two dice are tossed once. The probability of getting an even number at the first die or a total of 8 is
A. 1/36
B. 3/36
C. 11/36
D. 20/36
E. 23/36


OR probability:
If Events A and B are independent, the probability that Event A OR Event B occurs is equal to the probability that Event A occurs plus the probability that Event B occurs minus the probability that both Events A and B occur: \(P(A \ or \ B) = P(A) + P(B) - P(A \ and \ B)\).

This is basically the same as 2 overlapping sets formula:
{total # of items in groups A or B} = {# of items in group A} + {# of items in group B} - {# of items in A and B}.

Note that if event are mutually exclusive then \(P(A \ and \ B)=0\) and the formula simplifies to: \(P(A \ or \ B) = P(A) + P(B)\).

Also note that when we say "A or B occurs" we include three possibilities:
A occurs and B does not occur;
B occurs and A does not occur;
Both A and B occur.

AND probability:
When two events are independent, the probability of both occurring is the product of the probabilities of the individual events: \(P(A \ and \ B) = P(A)*P(B)\).

This is basically the same as Principle of Multiplication: if one event can occur in \(m\) ways and a second can occur independently of the first in \(n\) ways, then the two events can occur in \(mn\) ways.

BACK TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION:
Two dice are tossed once. The probability of getting an even number at the first die or a total of 8 is
A. 1/36
B. 3/36
C. 11/36
D. 20/36
E. 23/36

1. The probability of getting an even number at the first die is 1/2 (as the probability of even = the probability of odd = 1/2);
2. The probability of getting a total of 8 is 5/6^2, as there are 5 different favorable scenarios: (2,6), (6,2), (3,5), (5,3) and (4,4);
3. The probability of getting an even number at the first die AND a total of 8 is 3/6^2 (from above case);

Hence, The probability of getting an even number at the first die OR a total of 8 is 1/2+5/36-3/36=20/36.

Answer: D.



Hello Bunuel,

In your explanation of the ''AND'' probability for the independent events, you mentioned that P (A and B) = P(A) X P(B), however, why this formula is not getting applied in the below question. If I try to apply this formula to find P (A intersection B) = 1/2 X 5/36= 5/72. However, this value obtained is different from the one that we received by manually calculating the number of favourable outcomes (i.e. 3/36)

Can you please explain why this difference in the value?

Regards
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Two dice are tossed once. The probability of getting an even number at [#permalink]
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Given that Two dice are tossed once and We need to find What is the The probability of getting an even number at the first die or a total of 8?

As we are rolling two dice => Number of cases = \(6^2\) = 36

Getting even number in the first dice

Possible cases for the two rolls _ _ are 3 * 6 = 18 ways
(As First dice can get even number in 3 ways (2, 4, 6) and second dice can get any of the 6 numbers

Getting a Sum of 8

We can get the sum of 8 in the following ways
(2, 6), (3, 5), (4, 4), (5, 3), (6, 6)

But all cases except (3, 5) and (5, 3) are considered above when we took first dice roll as an even number
=> 2 ways

=> Total ways = 18 + 2 = 20 ways

=> Probability of getting an even number at the first die or a total of 8 = \(\frac{20}{36}\)

So, Answer will be D
Hope it helps!

Watch the following video to learn How to Solve Dice Rolling Probability Problems

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Re: Two dice are tossed once. The probability of getting an even number at [#permalink]
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