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Re: HOT Competition 4 Sep/8PM: Leonardo Da Vinci worked both for the Medic [#permalink]
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Splits:

A. both for the Medici, whom he described as his downfall but also were his creators, and for

B. both for the Medici, whom he said were his downfall but also his creators, and

C. both for the Medici, which he said was his downfall but also his creators, and for

D. for both the Medici, about whom he described them as his downfall but also his creators, and for

E. for both, who he said were his downfall but also his creators, and

=> Question checks for parallelism.

Elimination
A. both for the Medici, whom he described as his downfall but also were his creators, and for
    - "both... and..." parallel structure is correct
    - ", whom..." is possibly correct.
    - "... but also..." parallel structure is incorrect: were is not parallel to described.


B. both for the Medici, whom he said were his downfall but also his creators, and
    - "both... and..." parallel structure is incorrect
    - ", whom..." is possibly correct.
    - "... but also..." parallel structure is correct: his creators is parallel to his downfall.


C. both for the Medici, which he said was his downfall but also his creators, and for
    - "both... and..." parallel structure is correct
    - ", which..." is incorrect.
    - "... but also..." parallel structure is correct: his creators is parallel to his downfall.


D. for both the Medici, about whom he described them as his downfall but also his creators, and for
    - "both... and..." parallel structure is incorrect
    - ", about whom..." is incorrect.
    - "... but also..." parallel structure is correct: his creators is parallel to his downfall.


E. for both, who he said were his downfall but also his creators, and
    - "both... and..." parallel structure is correct
    - ", about whom..." is correct.
    - "... but also..." parallel structure is correct: his creators is parallel to his downfall.
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Re: HOT Competition 4 Sep/8PM: Leonardo Da Vinci worked both for the Medic [#permalink]
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Leonardo Da Vinci worked both for the Medici, whom he described as his downfall but also were his creators, and for Sforza, for whom he painted The Last Supper.


A. both for the Medici, whom he described as his downfall but also were his creators, and for --> Everything looks good.

B. both for the Medici, whom he said were his downfall but also his creators, and --> Parallel error.

C. both for the Medici, which he said was his downfall but also his creators, and for --> Please.. don't use 'which' to modify people or person.

D. for both the Medici, about whom he described them as his downfall but also his creators, and for --> Parallel error.

E. for both the Medici, who he said were his downfall but also his creators, and --> Using 'who' is incorrect here because the Medici is the object, not subject.

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Re: HOT Competition 4 Sep/8PM: Leonardo Da Vinci worked both for the Medic [#permalink]
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Leonardo Da Vinci worked both for the Medici, whom he described as his downfall but also were his creators, and for Sforza, for whom he painted The Last Supper.


Quote:
A. both for the Medici, whom he described as his downfall but also were his creators, and for

"whom he described as his downfall" is not parallel to "also were his creators"
Also, it illogically says "whom also were his creators". should be WHO, not WHOM

Quote:
B. both for the Medici, whom he said were his downfall but also his creators, and

BOTH FOR should be written with AND FOR. BOTH FOR is not parallel to AND

Quote:
C. both for the Medici, which he said was his downfall but also his creators, and for

which is is not the best choice used to describe "the Medici". Even if we overlook this, which WAS shows singular, so WHICH can't refer to his CREATORS. singular-plural error

Quote:
D. for both the Medici, about whom he described them as his downfall but also his creators, and for

FOR is already before BOTH. we can't use it again after AND.

Quote:
E. for both the Medici, who he said were his downfall but also his creators, and

This is the correct answer by process of elimination and it also corrects the errors in the previous mistakes

Answer: E

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Re: HOT Competition 4 Sep/8PM: Leonardo Da Vinci worked both for the Medic [#permalink]
Can’t we use “but also” without “not only” can we?
I mean sure, we can use “but” “also” separately such as “but … also…” without the presence of “not only”. However, as far as I know, we cannot use “but also” connected together.
Can someone explain me why this question is made with such flaw please?

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Re: HOT Competition 4 Sep/8PM: Leonardo Da Vinci worked both for the Medic [#permalink]
Hi suminha

I cannot see “not only... but also” here. Which “flaw” do you mean?
The only flaw I noticed is the omission of “the” before Sforza. We usually use “the” when we mean the whole family, for example: “the Medici”, “the Sforza”, “the Thompsons”, and such.


Quote:
Can’t we use “but also” without “not only” can we?


Yes, you can. First, try this official problem.

Then read RonPurewal ‘s posts on all pages here.

After reading his posts, try these problems:

1. https://gmatclub.com/forum/not-only-did ... 81150.html
2. https://gmatclub.com/forum/paleontologi ... 24265.html
3. https://gmatclub.com/forum/as-criminal- ... 20239.html
4. https://gmatclub.com/forum/not-only-did ... 02771.html


When you finish all the above, answer the questions below:

- Did you notice any inconsistency?
- One of the problems above has a flaw. Can you tell which one and what is that flaw?

If you answer correctly, then you must have groked the concept.
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HOT Competition 4 Sep/8PM: Leonardo Da Vinci worked both for the Medic [#permalink]
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By the way, the idea of this question was that the Medici were a family but there was just one guy — named Sforza — for whom da Vinci worked. It’s a bit sketchy, arguably, if you’re an art history buff, since there was a whole family of guys (and girls) named Sforza (perhaps a previous sentence specified which one?), but that’s not really the point of the question and it’s not a valid decision point since no answer choice addresses it. Anyway, that’s why Sforza doesn’t have a “the” — it wasn’t a typo or an oversight; it was intended, for better or worse.

(Not that I’m perfect as a question writer — I did inadvertently invert “the only” as “only the” in another question I wrote for this contest.)

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Originally posted by AnthonyRitz on 07 Sep 2020, 15:34.
Last edited by AnthonyRitz on 08 Sep 2020, 08:04, edited 3 times in total.
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HOT Competition 4 Sep/8PM: Leonardo Da Vinci worked both for the Medic [#permalink]
AnthonyRitz wrote:
By the way, the idea of this question was that the Medici were a family but there was just one guy — named Sforza — For whom da Vinci worked. It’s a bit sketchy, arguably, if you’re an art history buff, since there were a whole family of guys named Sforza (perhaps a previous sentence specified which one?), but that’s not really the point of the question and it’s not a valid decision point since no answer choice addresses it. Anyway, that’s why Sforza doesn’t have a “the” — it wasn’t a typo or error; it was intended, for better or worse.

(Not that I’m perfect as a question writer — I did inadvertently invert “the only” as “only the” in another question I wrote for this contest.)

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Sure, this problem can be one of those designed to see whether we can focus on major issues swimming in the ocean of distractions, such as the omission of “the” before Sforza. And yes, declaring such omission “a flaw” can itself be “a flaw” because saying that “genius worked both for a group of people and for a certain person” is not illogical. May bad, I confess.

However, is it ok to mention just the family name when we mean a person?
I mean, is it ok to say “you can see Brown in the room”? Or would “one of the Browns” and “John Brown” be preferred?
I was under the impression that only first names can be used alone.
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Re: HOT Competition 4 Sep/8PM: Leonardo Da Vinci worked both for the Medic [#permalink]
JonShukhrat wrote:
Hi suminha

I cannot see “not only... but also” here. Which “flaw” do you mean?
The only flaw I noticed is the omission of “the” before Sforza. We usually use “the” when we mean the whole family, for example: “the Medici”, “the Sforza”, “the Thompsons”, and such.


Quote:
Can’t we use “but also” without “not only” can we?


Yes, you can. First, try this official problem.

Then read RonPurewal ‘s posts on all pages here.

After reading his posts, try these problems:

1. https://gmatclub.com/forum/not-only-did ... 81150.html
2. https://gmatclub.com/forum/paleontologi ... 24265.html
3. https://gmatclub.com/forum/as-criminal- ... 20239.html
4. https://gmatclub.com/forum/not-only-did ... 02771.html


When you finish all the above, answer the questions below:

- Did you notice any inconsistency?
- One of the problems above has a flaw. Can you tell which one and what is that flaw?

If you answer correctly, then you must have groked the concept.


Thank you for the answer Jon!

I mean I was taught that using “but also” is unidiomatic because “not only” is not presented in the sentence.
For example, “I like apple but also banana” is worng because “not only” is not presented. However, “I think apple is healthy, but banana also can be healthy too” is ok because “but” and “also” is not together.
You see what I’m talking about?

The question that you linked is a sentence “not only…but also”, which I have no problem with.

What irritates me is that there is “but also (being together)” in all sentences, violating the rule what I’ve been taught.

So I was wondering what I know is correct or not.

I hope I explained my point understandably :)

Thank you Jon :)

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HOT Competition 4 Sep/8PM: Leonardo Da Vinci worked both for the Medic [#permalink]
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JonShukhrat wrote:

However, is it ok to mention just the family name when we mean a person?
I mean, is it ok to say “you can see Brown in the room”? Or would “one of the Browns” and “John Brown” be preferred?
I was under the impression that only first names can be used alone.


Absolutely it is okay in some cases to refer to a person using just their family name. Haven't you heard that this guy Biden is running for president against some other guy named Trump, here in the U.S.? At Biden's convention, there was a great speech by Obama -- and another by her husband! (See, when it starts to become unclear from context, I'm taking it too far!)

Also, technically, note that we don't know that Sforza was a last name in this sentence. It could've been the guy's first name, for those who aren't history buffs, and this test isn't about being a history buff. So that distinction really cannot matter.

suminha wrote:
I mean I was taught that using “but also” is unidiomatic because “not only” is not presented in the sentence.
For example, “I like apple but also banana” is worng because “not only” is not presented. However, “I think apple is healthy, but banana also can be healthy too” is ok because “but” and “also” is not together.
You see what I’m talking about?

The question that you linked is a sentence “not only…but also”, which I have no problem with.

What irritates me is that there is “but also (being together)” in all sentences, violating the rule what I’ve been taught.

So I was wondering what I know is correct or not.

I hope I explained my point understandably :)


I'm sorry that you were taught incorrectly, but it is acceptable in some cases to say "but also" without having previously said "not only."
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Re: HOT Competition 4 Sep/8PM: Leonardo Da Vinci worked both for the Medic [#permalink]
D and E, worked for both the Medici, there can be more than 1 Medici as the sentence uses "were". What about the AND ..... part of the sentence?
A, B and C uses worked both for ..... and ......
Please explain.
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HOT Competition 4 Sep/8PM: Leonardo Da Vinci worked both for the Medic [#permalink]
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Somieboy wrote:
D and E, worked for both the Medici, there can be more than 1 Medici as the sentence uses "were". What about the AND ..... part of the sentence?
A, B and C uses worked both for ..... and ......
Please explain.


If we wanted to explicitly say that “the Medici” were exactly two people for whom da Vinci worked, we would probably say “both of the Medici.” But sure, if the “both” were the only issue with D, I could see an argument for the interpretation that he worked for (1) “both [of] the Medici” and (2) “Sforza.” However, D has many, many other problems.

As written, E says that da Vinci worked for both (1) “the Medici” and (2) “Sforza.” This is perfectly parallel and logical, so there’s no problem here.

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Re: HOT Competition 4 Sep/8PM: Leonardo Da Vinci worked both for the Medic [#permalink]
suminha wrote:

However, “I think apple is healthy, but banana also can be healthy too” is ok because “but” and “also” is not together.


I think that this sentence is actually not ok.

You should use BUT to join the statements whose meanings are CONTRASTING:
- Positive statement but negative statement
- Negative statement but positive statement

You should use AND to join the statements whose meanings are SIMILAR:
- Positive statement and positive statement
- Negative statement and negative statement

To understand what I mean please first try this problem. Below is a spoiler:

C. executives rejected expensive dramas, but instead sought low-budget independent films.
D. executives rejected expensive dramas and instead sought low-budget independent films.

You can see that the two statements have similar meanings, not contrasting. In other words, when executives rejected expensive dramas and sought low-budget films, they acted similarly – they avoided expensive pictures in both cases. Therefore, NO contrast is needed and “but” is incorrect. C can be eliminated for this reason.

Now try this problem. Below is a spoiler:

C. composer who receives popular acclaim while living, but whose reputation declines after death and never regains its former status
D. composer who receives popular acclaim while living, who declines in reputation after death and who never regained popularity again

Can you see the contrasting statements? A composer becomes popular while living BUT loses popularity after death. Because D fails to deliver this contrast, it is incorrect. Now take your sentence:

- I think apple is healthy, but banana also can be healthy too.

These two statements that “apple is healthy” and that “banana can also be healthy” are NOT contrasting. You need “and” rather than “but” here. Moreover, you need either “also” or “too”, but not both.

You could possibly write “generally, apple is healthy but also can be harmful when eaten not ripe”. You had better reread carefully the links I sent you in my previous post. In the second link, Ron Purewal gives an example with “but also” alone:

- The drug kills the bacteria but also kills white cells.

“kills the bacteria” is a good thing, whereas “kills white cells” is a bad thing. So, “but” is ok. Also note that you don't have to treat “but” and “but also” differently. They are more or less the same thing.

You can check whether you understand correctly what is contrasting and what is similar by trying this problem. Then read Ron here.
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Re: HOT Competition 4 Sep/8PM: Leonardo Da Vinci worked both for the Medic [#permalink]
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Re: HOT Competition 4 Sep/8PM: Leonardo Da Vinci worked both for the Medic [#permalink]
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