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GMAT Online - What We Know [Master Topic]

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Re: GMAT Online - What We Know [Master Topic] [#permalink] New post   Updated on: 19 Oct 2021, 08:36
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I'm not sure how "you're making assumptions and relying on circumstance and logic instead of proven facts" is a valid retort when I've already admitted as much, but I believe that most readers have already drawn the same logical conclusion as I about the respective question pools on the GMAT online and test-center GMAT—i.e, that they are different.

I will happily concede, as I already have, that we have yet to prove this difference beyond a doubt—but just because GMAC hasn't yet acknowledged it doesn't make it untrue. And if it were untrue, then surely we would have heard from least one student by now who took both exam versions within less than 16 days (a common strategy, believe it or not) and saw repeat questions.

So why hasn't GMAC acknowledged that the online and test-center GMATs draw from different question pools, assuming that this is indeed true? 1) It would reinforce the already-common belief that the two exam versions are unequal in difficulty, despite GMAC's assertions to the contrary, and 2) GMAC may plan to merge the question pools at some future date, as discussed above.

What's less clear is whether the current question pools for the two exams are entirely separate (this is what I suspect, however, given the different "feel" of the online and test-center exams), or simply staggered to prevent overlap. It's possible that GMAT online questions are simply older test-center GMAT questions that haven't yet been "retired," but I do believe it's entirely obvious to those who are paying attention, and to those of us who have taken the GMAT online—despite definitive proof in the form of a GMAC acknowledgement— that the respective question pools are, at the very least, different.

Originally posted by mcelroytutoring on 16 Oct 2021, 18:49.
Last edited by mcelroytutoring on 19 Oct 2021, 08:36, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: GMAT Online - What We Know [Master Topic] [#permalink] New post   17 Oct 2021, 13:11
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abalodi wrote:
Not sure whether this has been mentioned on the thread but will an ESR now be available with the GMAT Online?

Hi abalodi,

Sadly, as of today there is still no ESR option for the GMAT online, even though the online exam has now been around for 1.5 years, and despite overwhelming popular demand for this option.

In my opinion, the two versions of the GMAT (test-center and online) will never be truly "aligned" until GMAC finally offers an ESR for the online exam.
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Re: GMAT Online - What We Know [Master Topic] [#permalink] New post   19 Oct 2021, 09:51
does anyone which timezone GMAT registration page follow?
It's already Oct 20 in my timezone and I still cannot register for my 3rd online exam as they announced😔😣

Still cold message "REGISTRATION ATTEMPT LIMIT REACHED"

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Re: GMAT Online - What We Know [Master Topic] [#permalink] New post   22 Oct 2021, 11:02
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OK, great: thank you for the update to confirm!

The 2-test lifetime limit for the GMAT online is officially no more. Good riddance to that pointless rule, and good luck to you on attempt #3.

Now, if only there were an ESR option.
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Re: GMAT Online - What We Know [Master Topic] [#permalink] New post   23 Oct 2021, 09:41
Years ago, the ETS had faced a crisis where actual exam questions were disclosed by "professionals" and were passed around. I believe that ETS resolved that crisis through lawsuits, nullifying scores, and reporting to programs. That was a significant actual crisis and yet, ETS did not impose any artificial limits.

Imposing limits penalizes very many innocent test takers. The number eight is itself unexplainable. It is harder to score well on the GMAT in an initial attempt and so people end up taking the exam several times. The GRE is easier in that sense. All of this just means that the natural number of re-attempts for the GMAT will be higher than that on the GRE.

Looking at some statistics reported by universities that admit PhD students:

- The average GRE score reported by top programs for admitted candidates is in the range of 320-325+ish. That translates to a converted GMAT score of about 630-640, assuming an equal split of 160Q and 160V.

- However, the actual GMAT average for these same programs is around 700 (or above). To get an equivalent GRE converted score, it would appear that one would need to score extremely highly on the GRE on both components.

People do take the GRE multiple times and despite the crises faced by ETS in the past, there has no similar rationale advanced by ETS to impose lifetime attempts.

I haven't seen any white papers or published research from GMAC on this issue. It would be interesting to hear from them.


bb wrote:
I agree that it seems silly.
I believe the 8-time limit was introduced to keep tutors from poaching questions from the test and passing them on to their students.

I have heard of some taking GMAT dozens of times and saving hard new questions, some thing that is not very common for the GRE, which is a lot less competitive at least at this time.

How big was the problem with tutors poaching questions? I don’t think it was very common… and the way this route was rolled out, it said that nobody would be unnecessarily denied from taking the test more than eight times. Unfortunately that has not been accurate and everyone so far has been denied from taking the test more than 8 times. It’s unfortunate. I can totally see how someone who’s scoring 600s, is clearly not a tutor….

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Re: GMAT Online - What We Know [Master Topic] [#permalink] New post   24 Oct 2021, 08:46
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Hovkial wrote:
The imposition of the 5-exam rule in any given rolling year should halt the problem of people taking the exam frequently. A person would have to be nearly 120 years old to take the exam even two dozen times.

Hi Hovkial,

As a highly biased GMAT tutor who would like to to eventually score a verified perfect 800 on the GMAT, I fully support the removal of the 8-test lifetime limit, so I can go back to taking it once a year, as I started doing in early 2012, well before the lifetime limit was imposed by GMAC in June of 2015.

So far I have been able to score a verified perfect 340 on the GRE, for example—but it was much easier to do so without a lifetime limit hanging over my head. Like many in my position, I only have a few more official attempts left at the GMAT, and I want to use them wisely.

That said, I think you are making an "x/y vs. y/x" math mistake here regarding the annual "rolling year" limit: it's not one exam per 5 years, it's 5 exams per one year, meaning that you could take the GMAT 25 times in only 5 years if there were no 8-exam lifetime limit.
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Re: GMAT Online - What We Know [Master Topic] [#permalink] New post   25 Oct 2021, 02:25
mcelroytutoring wrote:

As a highly biased GMAT tutor who would like to to eventually score a verified perfect 800 on the GMAT, I fully support the removal of the 8-test lifetime limit, so I can go back to taking it once a year, as I started doing in early 2012, well before the lifetime limit was imposed by GMAC in June of 2015.

So far I have been able to score a verified perfect 340 on the GRE, for example—but it was much easier to do so without a lifetime limit hanging over my head. Like many in my position, I only have a few more official attempts left at the GMAT, and I want to use them wisely.

That said, I think you are making an "x/y vs. y/x" math mistake here regarding the annual "rolling year" limit: it's not one exam per 5 years, it's 5 exams per one year, meaning that you could take the GMAT 25 times in only 5 years if there were no 8-exam lifetime limit.


That's right. You can take the exam 25 times in 5 years - saw the mistake after posting. That wasn't the main point in the issue.

The 5-exam limit per rolling year should control for, to some small extent, any learning that occurs through repeated test taking. People end up learning certain skills through repeated behaviors. This is another reason why I do not trust standardized exams. Scores become biased over time and person, especially if testing occurs in some patterns.

Unless I have missed something, the 8-exam lifetime limit does not have a proper scientific basis. It seems to be a policy decision. If that is the case, then policies should be examined to see if they are doing more harm than expected.

It may be easier to score a 340 on the GRE than an 800 on the newer GMAT. There have been several 340s, but far fewer 800s that I have come across recently in the last few years. I think it was easier to score an 800 on past versions of the exam.
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Re: GMAT Online - What We Know [Master Topic] [#permalink] New post   25 Oct 2021, 06:21
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Though it is a subjective opinion and not a proven fact :cool:, I do agree—unfortunately—that the GMAT is becoming tougher over time (both the content and scoring curve itself). Thus, it has become even harder to score a perfect 800, which requires answering all 58 counted questions correctly on Quant and Verbal.

As further evidence of this claim, the only verified 800 we have here on GMAT Club (despite approximately 1 million members) is from 2015: a score that is no longer valid, because GMAT scores expire after 5 years.

One should also note that a GMAT Club score verification feature has been available since 2017, covering GMAT scores from as far back as mid-2012. In other words: after nearly a decade of official GMAT scores, we have seen exactly one verified perfect 800.

There are of course those out there who who earned their perfect 800s prior to mid-2012, and those who have chosen not to verify their 800 scores (I know one of them personally), but I doubt that there are many people in this category, and surely fewer students than GMAC claims. The official number is .02% of test-takers, or 30 out of every 200,000, but I suspect this figure to be far lower in reality.



On the other hand, as you noted, there have been several verified GRE perfect scorers here on GMAT Club and on GRE Prep Club over the last few years, which supports the conclusion that it's easier to score perfectly on the GRE—especially with no lifetime limit.

Another important fact to consider is that on the GRE, you don't truly have to be perfect to earn a perfect score: you can earn a 170 + 170 = 340 composite with up to 4 questions incorrect out of the 80 counted questions (3 on Verbal and 1 on Quant).
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Re: GMAT Online - What We Know [Master Topic] [#permalink] New post   25 Oct 2021, 11:17
A score of 800 on the current version of the GMAT is indeed difficult to obtain. The 0.02% figure is interesting, but we also need to know how many of these 800 scorers were repeat test takers, and how many achieved that score over how many consecutive attempts and over how much time. More stratified data are needed to draw conclusions.

Have yet to see solid empirical research that concludes that one must get all (58 minus experimental) questions correct in order to score 800. Older 800 scores, before the GMAT content difficulty and adaptive nature were introduced, were more common. Consideration also must be given to native vs. non-native speakers, test takers in different regions and so on. There are many high scorers from the Asian sub-continent who score highly but are otherwise sometimes poor at using the English language.

The GRE has many international non-native English speakers. Anecdotal evidence would suggest that many of them find the verbal sections to be difficult. The GRE tests understanding of vocabulary in use, which the GMAT does not in an explicit sense. The GRE is also taken by people in a far wider variety of academic disciplines. Again, the GMAT lacks in this respect.

Comparisons between the two tests should be made with some caution.

mcelroytutoring wrote:
Though it is a subjective opinion and not a proven fact :cool:, I do agree—unfortunately—that the GMAT is becoming tougher over time (both the content and scoring curve itself). Thus, it has become even harder to score a perfect 800, which requires answering all 58 counted questions correctly on Quant and Verbal.

As further evidence of this claim, the only verified 800 we have here on GMAT Club (despite approximately 1 million members) is from 2015: a score that is no longer valid, because GMAT scores expire after 5 years.

One should also note that a GMAT Club score verification feature has been available since 2017, covering GMAT scores from as far back as mid-2012. In other words: after nearly a decade of official GMAT scores, we have seen exactly one verified perfect 800.

There are of course those out there who who earned their perfect 800s prior to mid-2012, and those who have chosen not to verify their 800 scores (I know one of them personally), but I doubt that there are many people in this category, and surely fewer students than GMAC claims. The official number is .02% of test-takers, or 30 out of every 200,000, but I suspect this figure to be far lower in reality.



On the other hand, as you noted, there have been several verified GRE perfect scorers here on GMAT Club and on GRE Prep Club over the last few years, which supports the conclusion that it's easier to score perfectly on the GRE—especially with no lifetime limit.

Another important fact to consider is that on the GRE, you don't truly have to be perfect to earn a perfect score: you can earn a 170 + 170 = 340 composite with up to 4 questions incorrect out of the 80 counted questions (3 on Verbal and 1 on Quant).
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Re: GMAT Online - What We Know [Master Topic] [#permalink] New post   Updated on: 26 Oct 2021, 09:26
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It has in fact been confirmed via multiple GMAT ESRs that you need to answer all 58 counted questions correctly to earn a perfect 800—and that you need to answer all 30 counted questions correctly on Verbal for a V51 (one wrong usually drops you down to V48 or V49).

Take, for example, the student who had their score upgraded by GMAC from a Q51 / V50 to a Q51 / V51, but still received "only" a 790 composite because they got one Quant question wrong:

https://gmatclub.com/forum/q51-v50-253258.html

Originally posted by mcelroytutoring on 25 Oct 2021, 13:31.
Last edited by mcelroytutoring on 26 Oct 2021, 09:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GMAT Online - What We Know [Master Topic] [#permalink] New post   25 Oct 2021, 21:44
mcelroytutoring wrote:
It has in fact been confirmed via multiple GMAT ESRs

Take, for example, the student who had their score upgraded



There are public repositories that allow people to publish their research. These claims can be published for public peer review. Then, methodologies, analyses and claims can be carefully examined.

Random internet-based claims may be interesting, but lack rigor.
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Re: GMAT Online - What We Know [Master Topic] [#permalink] New post   25 Oct 2021, 22:22
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Hi. I totally agree that 5 timers per year would be sufficient but I think GMAC felt that with the test refreshing once a month (back then it was once a month), a group of 3 individuals could cover the entire year or potentially 2 people could cover 10 months, so they did the 2-prong approach of 5/times a year + 8 lifetime attempts. (Though I definitely not claiming to be able to read their minds :lol:)



What also puzzles me is the EA's 2-lifetime attempt limit. Odd. Why?



Hovkial wrote:
bb wrote:

I have heard of some taking GMAT dozens of times and saving hard new questions, some thing that is not very common for the GRE, which is a lot less competitive at least at this time.

How big was the problem with tutors poaching questions? I don’t think it was very common… and the way this route was rolled out, it said that nobody would be unnecessarily denied from taking the test more than eight times. Unfortunately that has not been accurate and everyone so far has been denied from taking the test more than 8 times. It’s unfortunate. I can totally see how someone who’s scoring 600s, is clearly not a tutor….


The imposition of the 5-exam rule in any given rolling year should halt the problem of people taking the exam frequently. A person would have to be nearly 120 years old to take the exam even two dozen times.

The limit of 8 exams in a lifetime is still not explainable. GMAC did end up, through its policies, limiting innocent people by this lifetime barrier.

I agree that scoring well on the GRE is a little easier purely when it comes to content. The GRE however is a longer timed exam. That can test people who lack the strength to complete a long session. I still think that scoring very highly on all components of the GRE is very difficult for non-professionals, excluding tutors and agencies.
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Re: GMAT Online - What We Know [Master Topic] [#permalink] New post   27 Oct 2021, 05:47
Hi regarding the annual limit of 5x a candidate can take the exam, does it apply to online GMAT? I have maxed out my limit but they were all taken offline. Say I want to take my 6th exam online, do I need to wait until the day I take the 1st exam last year to take the online GMAT again? Or the annual limit is separate for offline and online, so technically one can take 8x exams in a year?
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Re: GMAT Online - What We Know [Master Topic] [#permalink] New post   27 Oct 2021, 09:47
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indonesianfintech wrote:
Hi regarding the annual limit of 5x a candidate can take the exam, does it apply to online GMAT? I have maxed out my limit but they were all taken offline. Say I want to take my 6th exam online, do I need to wait until the day I take the 1st exam last year to take the online GMAT again? Or the annual limit is separate for offline and online, so technically one can take 8x exams in a year?

Hi indonesianfintech,

They both count towards the lifetime and rolling 12-month limits now, so you won't be able to take a 6th exam if you've already taken 5 in the last 12 months.
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Re: GMAT Online - What We Know [Master Topic] [#permalink] New post   27 Oct 2021, 13:07
Hi, does anybody know what holidays that I need to anticipate in the end of December and beginning of January in the US beside the weekends, 25 of December and 1 of January, if I am taking the online GMAT around 20s of December, as the official results of GMAT online test will only be available in 7 business days?
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Re: GMAT Online - What We Know [Master Topic] [#permalink] New post   27 Oct 2021, 13:13
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indonesianfintech wrote:
Hi, does anybody know what holidays that I need to anticipate in the end of December and beginning of January in the US, if I am taking the online GMAT around 20s of December, as the official results of GMAT online test will only be available in 7 business days?


Hi. That’s good thinking and planning on your side. Technically, Christmas and New Year’s day should not be impacting schedules since they are on Saturdays. At the same time, the seven days is more like a guideline rather than a commitment of any sort. It is definitely not a guarantee….

However, with the latest changes to the test, you will see the test score at the end of your test and even if the final score report with your AWA is not available by the time you need to submit your application, that should be sufficient to actually submit the application.

What business schools ask is that you have a self reported score on your application at the time when you submit the application. They’re not asking you to have a reportable score because they will not be looking up your score and matching it to your application for a little while. Some programs do it only after choosing to accept you and others doing during the application process.

Back in the day when the test was only administered at the test center, the leadtime was 21 days. It was OK to potentially take the test the day before the application was due and not have any issues. The only potential challenge is the score on the essay, but now that many people are using scores without the essay, you can leave it blank in the worst case scenario if it’s not yet available in time for your application.

Anyway, if you don’t want to read all my ramblings above, the bottom line is that you can take your test up until a day or two before your deadline. I would encourage you to take it much sooner just in case you have a failure for technical reasons and have to retake which takes a few days to reschedule and sometimes up to a week.

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Re: GMAT Online - What We Know [Master Topic] [#permalink] New post   27 Oct 2021, 20:00
Can we cancel the report in the Online GMAT now, as we are able to do in the Test center GMAT?
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Re: GMAT Online - What We Know [Master Topic] [#permalink] New post   28 Oct 2021, 18:26
Does anyone know if we have clarity on the less than 16 day loophole between in-person and online GMATs? The website still says that they don't need to be 16 days apart. I guess we should assume that is the policy for now (although I worry that they just haven't updated that wording yet)?
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Re: GMAT Online - What We Know [Master Topic] [#permalink] New post   Updated on: 29 Oct 2021, 15:45
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Good question. The only way to know for sure is to test it out...all we need is $500. :cool:

Seriously though, until someone gives it a try, who knows? As of today, 10/28/21, the GMAC website also still indicates in a bunch of places that you can only take the GMAT online twice, which is of course no longer true as of 8 days ago. Thus, the bottom paragraph could also be outdated information.



One promising sign, however, is that while the "two attempts" language has not yet been removed from this page on GMAC.com, it has been removed from this page on MBA.com, yet the language about the "16 day loophole" remains, suggesting that the loophole still works.


Originally posted by mcelroytutoring on 28 Oct 2021, 19:43.
Last edited by mcelroytutoring on 29 Oct 2021, 15:45, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: GMAT Online - What We Know [Master Topic] [#permalink] New post   29 Oct 2021, 16:45
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Aditya9270 wrote:
bb wrote:
GMAT ONLINE - EVERYTHING WE KNOW!
(this post is stickied at the top to provide a quick reference about GMAT Online and GMAT Online ENHANCED version)

Show SpoilerClick to Expand full summary

  • The GMAT™ Online exam can be taken on both Windows and Mac personal computers and laptops. Tablets are NOT allowed
  • The sections are as follows:
    31 Quantitative / 62 minutes
    36 Verbal / 65 minutes
    12 IR / 30 minutes
    *Please note that the Section Order for the GMAT ™ Online exam is fixed at this time as Quantitative Reasoning, Verbal Reasoning, Integrated Reasoning
  • You will be allowed one, optional 5-minute break before you begin the Integrated Reasoning section.
  • Unlike the in-person exam at a testing center, the GMAT™ Online exam does not permit the use of a whiteboard during the exam. To assist you with the ability to take notes and/or draw shapes, there is an online whiteboard feature you can access during the exam. To learn more about Whiteboards, or Try one in action, see GMAT Club's Master Whiteboard Discussion
  • Tablets are also forbidden. Devices must have a physical keyboard
  • Touchscreens are a controversial item. Originally GMAC said touchscreens were forbidden. However, later they relaxed the requirements and are permitting use of touchscreens but not using touchscreens for the whiteboard
  • When you complete the exam, you will not receive a score immediately. Scores available in 7 days
  • Scores cannot be canceled
  • You can choose to send your scores to Schools (unlimited number) AFTER seeing the score instead of before taking the test (positive change)
  • Your online GMAT scores will NOT show up in the regular score reports and vice versa - New!
  • You can only take 1 GMAT Online test. Updated! Now you can take 2 GMAT Online tests.
  • Full details here: https://www.mba.com/exams/gmat-online/gmat-online-experience/about-the-gmat-online
  • You cannot get ESR report to analyze your performance https://www.mba.com/frequently-asked-questions/gmat-online-exam#question27


Whiteboard Questions



GMAT Online Debriefs



mcelroytutoring bb Nikhil ScottTargetTestPrep

My photograph from my passport, is quite old and I don't look quite similar to the photo, do I need to worry about my online gmat exam??


I don't think there is anything to worry about. Good luck with your test!
GMAT Club Bot
gmatclubot
Re: GMAT Online - What We Know [Master Topic] [#permalink]
29 Oct 2021, 16:45
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