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# If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother!

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Current Student
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink]

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15 Jan 2013, 20:58
1
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My favorite part:

Quote:
Many of my classmates from the Wharton Class of 2002 complain that their MBA was only valuable during their first job out of school. Once they went looking for another job, no one really cared what school they went to or how well they performed at the school. It was as if their degrees were rendered meaningless in all future jobs.

What a horrible shock! You mean to tell me that how you actually perform in your job is more important than where you went to school? What ever shall I do?
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink]

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16 Jan 2013, 01:02
1
KUDOS
UTMPA2011 wrote:
I am still stuck on how this guy earned a Wharton MBA. The poor logic and reasoning skills demonstrated by this article remind me of USA Today reporting.

The content is poorly supported with unverifiable facts. There are also many inconsistencies throughout the article regarding the "value" of the MBA, which is not clearly defined. The broadness of the discussion of the value of an MBA as a whole only serves to weaken the overall argument because it undermines the statement that top 5 programs are still valuable.

The startup focus of the article is way off in left field and is very limiting in support of his conclusion. I was also surprised to read the statement: “However, most MBA programs do a poor job of preparing students for the uncertain economic reality we live in today, which makes an MBA a poor investment.” What? There is no support for this viewpoint. I am shocked that he does not provide a concrete example with a more realistic time horizon for evaluating “value”. Laughable. The scariest part of this article is that he was part of the adcom. Yikes.

I want to include this article as support for an application to Wharton. I would include an analysis of the logical errors and a statement that I would never embarrass Wharton like this guy.

Well, it was a LOT easier to get into top b-schools back then. This guy applied during the 1999-2000 cycle, which was right before the nasdaq bubble burst, so a lot of people were too busy making money in tech and did not go to b-school. Competition was just not that strong.

Wharton is an awesome school, but it has more than 800 students. At ANY top b-school, there will be studs and duds. Sadly, the man who wrote this "article" (i hesitate to really label it as an article since that word implies actual logical reasoning, research, and coherent thought) belongs to the latter group.

Last edited by Shawshank on 16 Jan 2013, 06:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink]

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16 Jan 2013, 09:54
1
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His argument is simply trite. I can provide a bit more insight into what startups actually would look for (I work in a tech startup and often times work on projects in leading VC firms in the Bay Area)

Granted, bschools will not teach you technical skills (e.g. script writing and programming) relevant in the tech startup field. Unless bschools quickly adapt its curriculum, students going forward will just need to be dynamic and adapt to the demand of future employers. The founders at the company, a pretty successful "brand-name" startup, I am at still highly value a bschool education, since essentially it is a filtering process to source candidates who are eager to prove his/her mettle. A better argument would be that bschool students must stay ahead of curb and anticipate demand in skills, and not just assume 2 years at school is all that would be required to get that sweet high paying job.

Case in point: I came into my current with only a quant finance background, mainly from bulge m&a, and I realized that I would need to at least understand data and programming architecture in order to fully grasp the firm's business model. I took free online courses on postgresql, python, and C++ and, bam, I'm back in the game. Although I'll never be as skilled as CS majors, having a grasp of technical skills played a key role in my success at my current position.

Let's all assume his quant score far outweighed is verbal score...
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink]

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17 Jan 2013, 16:25
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Well, good thing he's a Wharton alum instead of an HBS alum (although he's likely a Wharton alum because he got rejected by HBS), otherwise he might be writing "If you can't get into HBS/Stanford don't even bother!"
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink]

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20 Jan 2013, 18:57
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cheetarah1980 wrote:
I have yet to hear any 2nd years in the FT program say they felt at any disadvantage because PT students were also in the recruiting pool.

Give it time. You will.
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink]

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22 Jan 2013, 19:02
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The nut does appear elitist http://www.jaybhatti.com/
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink]

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23 Jan 2013, 12:28
1
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kingfalcon wrote:
packet82 wrote:
AbhiJ wrote:
Part of the reason MBA brand is getting diluted is because of the several programs offered by 1 school. If they want to create PT MBA then they should decrease the number of FT enrollment. Imagine 2000 Booth MBAs graduating every year, won't that dilute the brand. Princeton is still highly regarded because it has not climbed up the MBA bandwagon. The closest thing it offer is Masters in Finance and the program has around 25 students every year.

The MBA as a whole is getting diluted because every two-bit former community college has one now and they accept anyone with a pulse, not because Booth graduates a lot of students. As long as the school allows only qualified students in to their program, it will remain highly regarded. Haas for example is working on an expansion to bring their full time class from 240 to around 300 students. I highly doubt they're going to drop in the ranking as a result.

As long as the students are qualified, a larger program can be an advantage since the network will be larger.

Not disputing any of your points, but do you have a source for Haas' plans to expand? I had heard Yale SOM was planning to expand, but hadn't heard the same of Haas.

Here you go:

http://poetsandquants.com/2012/02/24/ha ... expansion/

They're looking at building a new \$50 million building that would allow the program to expand to 300 FT students.
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink]

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15 Jan 2013, 22:54
UTMPA2011 wrote:
I am still stuck on how this guy earned a Wharton MBA. The poor logic and reasoning skills demonstrated by this article remind me of USA Today reporting.

The content is poorly supported with unverifiable facts. There are also many inconsistencies throughout the article regarding the "value" of the MBA, which is not clearly defined. The broadness of the discussion of the value of an MBA as a whole only serves to weaken the overall argument because it undermines the statement that top 5 programs are still valuable.

The startup focus of the article is way off in left field and is very limiting in support of his conclusion. I was also surprised to read the statement: “However, most MBA programs do a poor job of preparing students for the uncertain economic reality we live in today, which makes an MBA a poor investment.” What? There is no support for this viewpoint. I am shocked that he does not provide a concrete example with a more realistic time horizon for evaluating “value”. Laughable. The scariest part of this article is that he was part of the adcom. Yikes.

I want to include this article as support for an application to Wharton. I would include an analysis of the logical errors and a statement that I would never embarrass Wharton like this guy.

+1. I was thinking the same thing. How can someone go to Wharton and cite one (horribly misconstrued) fact about Stanford's employment rate in an article making a sweeping statement about ALL MBA PROGRAMS EVER! Maybe this guy should go back to school.
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink]

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16 Jan 2013, 00:25
If people like him are on the adcom, it's no wonder I've never had any interest in applying to Wharton. What a nice job he's done at showing the kind of people Wharton admits.
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink]

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16 Jan 2013, 00:48
packet82 wrote:
If people like him are on the adcom, it's no wonder I've never had any interest in applying to Wharton. What a nice job he's done at showing the kind of people Wharton admits.

+1

Wharton was the top 10 school I discarded the earliest in my research process (mostly based on what some friends who did their undergrad there told me about the MBA students)
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink]

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16 Jan 2013, 01:21
my brain hurts
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink]

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16 Jan 2013, 08:29
UTMPA2011 wrote:
I am still stuck on how this guy earned a Wharton MBA. The poor logic and reasoning skills demonstrated by this article remind me of USA Today reporting.

The content is poorly supported with unverifiable facts. There are also many inconsistencies throughout the article regarding the "value" of the MBA, which is not clearly defined. The broadness of the discussion of the value of an MBA as a whole only serves to weaken the overall argument because it undermines the statement that top 5 programs are still valuable.

The startup focus of the article is way off in left field and is very limiting in support of his conclusion. I was also surprised to read the statement: “However, most MBA programs do a poor job of preparing students for the uncertain economic reality we live in today, which makes an MBA a poor investment.” What? There is no support for this viewpoint. I am shocked that he does not provide a concrete example with a more realistic time horizon for evaluating “value”. Laughable. The scariest part of this article is that he was part of the adcom. Yikes.

I want to include this article as support for an application to Wharton. I would include an analysis of the logical errors and a statement that I would never embarrass Wharton like this guy.

Your V47 is well deserved .
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink]

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16 Jan 2013, 08:58
very interesting article, thanks for sharing.
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink]

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16 Jan 2013, 10:25
Since he's so focused on startups, I'm also curious why he seems to think 3 East Coast schools and a Chicagoland school would be the best choice. The vast majority of VC money is in the Bay Area. So, Stanford makes sense, but Haas isn't worth it?

To another point, if you want to get hired in the first round at a startup, business school might not be the best idea, no matter where you go. At that point, startups are usually looking for people who can put their product together, not provide business oversight. However, if you're looking to found a startup, a good business school is key. I don't know many other ways to get introduced to the VC industry and make connections with people at VC firms. They're not going to respond to an emailed pitch deck.

I'm sure Wharton is a fine school, but I've run in to more than enough of these kind of Wharton alums to know it isn't the place for me. This is probably why schools stress fit so much in the admissions process. I'd go postal if I had to deal with more than one of his type on a class project.
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink]

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17 Jan 2013, 01:14
Mr Jay bhatti... Seriously?

I must thank you for at least including MIT/Kellog to the list. An egoistic, chauvinistic dud that you appear to be, you could have very well stopped at HSW.
But then again... seriously?
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink]

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17 Jan 2013, 05:23
When I was reading this article I had a feeling that the author can not a graduate from Wharton. There are plenty of flaws in his argument. He might sound right in the sence that it is worth doing an MBA with a top business school, but when I saw his top 5 schools list (which by the way does not include Booth or Columbia in the US), I though he can't be serious. Moreover, if someone want's to work in Europe, it would be far better to go to top European business school, right? such as LBS or Insead.

I genuinely believe that the value of MBA is not limited to short-term outcomes, it has much more value in the long-term horizon.
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink]

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18 Jan 2013, 00:33
At the HBS roadshow I met a local alum who said literally during his public speech - If you can't get into HBS you shouldn't go anywhere - quite arrogant but not a rare idea among alumni. Nevertheless, the point is that the top schools can give you resources which you can't get at lower ranking schools and probably at some point TOP 5, 10,20... (for every person this point is different) there is no reason to go to the business school at all and you better try other things saving your money, time and energy. At least I got that article in that way even though it has some flaws.
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink]

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18 Jan 2013, 06:54
polyaris wrote:
At the HBS roadshow I met a local alum who said literally during his public speech - If you can't get into HBS you shouldn't go anywhere - quite arrogant but not a rare idea among alumni. Nevertheless, the point is that the top schools can give you resources which you can't get at lower ranking schools and probably at some point TOP 5, 10,20... (for every person this point is different) there is no reason to go to the business school at all and you better try other things saving your money, time and energy. At least I got that article in that way even though it has some flaws.

There's nothing you can get at Harvard that you can't get at Stanford. Yes, the worth of an MBA starts to drop rather significantly as you go down the rankings, but saying there are only 5 schools you should go to for all careers is beyond ridiculous. If you want to go in to IB, why leave off Booth? If you want to get in to tech, Kellogg and to a lesser extent Wharton and Harvard wouldn't really even be on my list. Haas certainly would be though.

There are a finite number of top schools that are "worth it" depending on what your goals are, but there certainly is not a list of 5 that everyone should go to.
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink]

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18 Jan 2013, 11:01
Nice - I don't get the part about about MBAs competing with PT and Exec MBAs from the same school. PT/Exec guys are often company sponsored and returning to the same company, and if they're not, I've heard (sorry about the hearsay, I just haven't cared enough to verify it) that a lot of Part-time/Exec programs don't have access to the same career management center that the Full-time students do, and are definitely NOT competing for summer interships that can turn into full time offers, thus doing nothing to decrease the "value" of a full-time MBA.
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink]

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19 Jan 2013, 19:38
machichi wrote:
Let's pretend his thesis was this: "If you can't go to one of YOUR top 5 MBA choices. don't even bother." For me there were only about 7 business schools that I would choose to attend. Outside of those (of which only 1 or 2 is "top 5" by his standards), I probably would have decided not to get my MBA. I'm curious if others feel the same way.

Agreed wholeheartedly. Certain schools in this guy's "Top 5" I simply did not feel passionate about, and thus didn't make MY "Top 5", which to me is of much greater importance. Of this guy's "Top 5", I only applied to 2...the other three I didn't want to be anywhere near.
Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother!   [#permalink] 19 Jan 2013, 19:38

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