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Re: Architects and stonemasons, huge palace and temple clusters were built [#permalink]
KapTeacherEli wrote:
Remember, when a modifying phrase is set off from the rest of the sentence by commas, the rest of the sentence must read correctly if that descriptive phrase is ignored. Ignoring both of the parts of the sentence isolated by commas, and reading (E) into the sentence, we get "...were the Maya who... built huge palace and temple structures." This is clearly grammatically incorrect.


Pls explain, How is this sentence incorrect?
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Re: Architects and stonemasons, huge palace and temple clusters were built [#permalink]
I understood the meaning of the sentence that
Mayan population built temples and palaces without...wheel.

What is the relevance of the modifier "Architects and Stonemasons" before the comma? What does it modify?
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Re: Architects and stonemasons, huge palace and temple clusters were built [#permalink]
Pls, explain why 'E' is wrong other than the fact that 'Architects...' should be immediately followed by a suitable noun/pronoun.

Thanks
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Re: Architects and stonemasons, huge palace and temple clusters were built [#permalink]
I cannot wrap my head around this:

(1) Scientists and engineers, the Russians built a huge rocket.
How is this not a fragmented sentence?

(2) Scientists and engineers, were the Russians who, ... , built a huge rocket.
Though the , is clearly wrong here, I've seen GMAT use commas to mark pauses arbitrarily.
If that's the case, would this option be more valid?
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Re: Architects and stonemasons, huge palace and temple clusters were built [#permalink]
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shyam30 wrote:
I cannot wrap my head around this:

(1) Scientists and engineers, the Russians built a huge rocket.
How is this not a fragmented sentence?

Hi shyam30, I can understand the confusion. Scientists and engineers are actually nouns; however, in this sentence, they are in some sense describing who the Russians are/were. So, the phrase Scientists and engineers is used as a modifier here, modifying the Russians.

Hence, it is not a fragmented sentence.

p.s. Our book EducationAisle Sentence Correction Nirvana discusses Fragmented sentences, their application and examples in significant detail. If you or someone is interested, PM me your email-id; I can mail the corresponding section.
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Architects and stonemasons, huge palace and temple clusters were built [#permalink]
DmitryFarber wrote:
MAnkur The part in question begins with a verb, so it's not a modifier. We generally only skip over modifying text. If it said "who were . . . ," then it would be a modifier.


Hi DmitryFarber GMATNinja Abhi077 generis

It seems like in E -- were the Maya who is not a modifier according to E

If that is indeed the case, why is were the Maya who in between comma's in E?

Also, where can i read more about this part quoted by DmitryFarber - The part in question begins with a verb, so it's not a modifier. - i thought as long as anything is in between two comma's -- we can assume it's a modifier
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Architects and stonemasons, huge palace and temple clusters were built [#permalink]
Expert Reply
jabhatta2 wrote:
i thought as long as anything is in between two comma's -- we can assume it's a modifier

Hi jabhatta2,

Unfortunately, we can't do that. You could try this question and this question and then go through these posts: 1 and 2.
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Re: Architects and stonemasons, huge palace and temple clusters were built [#permalink]
Abhi077

Wouldn't "without the benefit..." be a prepositional phrase describing 'temple clusters and palaces' and therefore illogical or at the very least ambiguous if you said it could refer to architects and stonemansons?

(C) the Maya built huge palace and temple clusters without the benefit of animal transport or the wheel
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Architects and stonemasons, huge palace and temple clusters were built [#permalink]
DmitryFarber wrote:
sislam04
Prepositional phrases can be noun modifiers or adverbial modifiers, depending on the phrase and the context. In this case, "without the benefit" describes how something was done, so it's adverbial and modifies the verb "built."




Thank you for the response.

My counterpoint would be below:

We saw a tiger on they way to the store.

Did we see a tiger while we were going to the store or did we see a tiger on his way to the store?

Obliviously the later is a bit nonsensical but it does leave ambiguity (I think you would argue it's adverbial in this case). Similarly from the question above can't
the same be said that its ambiguous?
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Re: Architects and stonemasons, huge palace and temple clusters were built [#permalink]
Hi GMATNinja

It would be really helpful if you could post a detailed solution to this question.
Also, what is the role of 'architects and stonemasons'
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Re: Architects and stonemasons, huge palace and temple clusters were built [#permalink]
[quote="jitendra"]Architects and stonemasons, huge palace and temple clusters were built by the Maya without benefit of the wheel or animal transport.


(A) huge palace and temple clusters were built by the Maya without benefit of the wheel or animal transport

(B) without the benefits of animal transport or the wheel, huge palace and temple clusters were built by the Maya

(C) the Maya built huge palace and temple clusters without the benefit of animal transport or the wheel

(D) there were built, without the benefit of the wheel or animal transport, huge palace and temple clusters by the Maya

(E) were the Maya who, without the benefit of the wheel or animal transport, built huge palace and temple clusters


GMATNinja

I have come across two official problems that treat the descriptor of a noun at the beginning of the sentence being offset by a comma or no comma differently.
In this problem, there is a comma --> "Architects and stonemasons, the Maya".

In number 868 in the Official Guide 2020 version, there is no comma--> "Jazz pianist and composer Thelonious Monk produced..."

How should I go about this?

Thank you :) I trust your words of wisdom.
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Architects and stonemasons, huge palace and temple clusters were built [#permalink]
jitendra wrote:
Architects and stonemasons, huge palace and temple clusters were built by the Maya without benefit of the wheel or animal transport.


(A) huge palace and temple clusters were built by the Maya without benefit of the wheel or animal transport

(B) without the benefits of animal transport or the wheel, huge palace and temple clusters were built by the Maya

(C) the Maya built huge palace and temple clusters without the benefit of animal transport or the wheel

(D) there were built, without the benefit of the wheel or animal transport, huge palace and temple clusters by the Maya

(E) were the Maya who, without the benefit of the wheel or animal transport, built huge palace and temple clusters


Verbal :: Sentence correction:: 07631

https://www.nytimes.com/1985/04/26/arts/art-maya-treasures-the-tiny-and-the-vast.html

FROM evidence dug up so far, it appears that the cleverest, hardest-working and most cultivated people of pre-Columbian America were the Mayas, described by the archeologist Sylvanus G. Morley as ''the Greeks of the New World.'' Architects and stonemasons, they built huge palace and temple clusters without benefit of the wheel or animal transport.



Im seeing a lot of detail oriented explanations but for the sake of simplicity this is a way of looking at the question that will get you the right answer 80% of the way. If you are down to C & E (which you should be) think about the rules of restrictive and non restrictive modifiers. Nonrestrictive modifiers are always surrounded by commas & usually begin the modifier with the word 'which'. Unlike nonrestrictive modifiers, restrictive modifiers are usually not surrounded by commas and always change the meaning of the sentence.

(E) were the Maya who, without the benefit of the wheel or animal transport, built huge palace and temple clusters

Looking at answer choice E, "without the benefit of the wheel or animal transport" is an essential part of this sentence and will change the meaning of the sentence if it is not there. Thats great that mayans built huge palace and temple clusters, but it is exceptional that mayans built huge palace and temple clusters without the use of the wheel or animal transport. E has a restrictive modifier disguised as a nonrestrictive modifier and that is enough to choose answer choice C over E
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Re: Architects and stonemasons, huge palace and temple clusters were built [#permalink]
jitendra wrote:
Architects and stonemasons, huge palace and temple clusters were built by the Maya without benefit of the wheel or animal transport.


(A) huge palace and temple clusters were built by the Maya without benefit of the wheel or animal transport

(B) without the benefits of animal transport or the wheel, huge palace and temple clusters were built by the Maya

(C) the Maya built huge palace and temple clusters without the benefit of animal transport or the wheel

(D) there were built, without the benefit of the wheel or animal transport, huge palace and temple clusters by the Maya

(E) were the Maya who, without the benefit of the wheel or animal transport, built huge palace and temple clusters



Hello GMATNinja AjiteshArun VeritasKarishma AndrewN Skywalker18

I agree with all the problems mentioned above. I wanted to know whether we have a problem with "without the benefit of the wheel or animal transport" in option E. I think there's a problem as in option E it acts as a non-essential modifier. However, this fragment is essential for the meaning of the sentence. Am I correct? If not, could you please correct me?
Thanking you in advance!
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Re: Architects and stonemasons, huge palace and temple clusters were built [#permalink]
AndrewN wrote:
ashmit99 wrote:
jitendra wrote:
Architects and stonemasons, huge palace and temple clusters were built by the Maya without benefit of the wheel or animal transport.


(A) huge palace and temple clusters were built by the Maya without benefit of the wheel or animal transport

(B) without the benefits of animal transport or the wheel, huge palace and temple clusters were built by the Maya

(C) the Maya built huge palace and temple clusters without the benefit of animal transport or the wheel

(D) there were built, without the benefit of the wheel or animal transport, huge palace and temple clusters by the Maya

(E) were the Maya who, without the benefit of the wheel or animal transport, built huge palace and temple clusters




Hello GMATNinja AjiteshArun VeritasKarishma AndrewN Skywalker18

I agree with all the problems mentioned above. I wanted to know whether we have a problem with "without the benefit of the wheel or animal transport" in option E. I think there's a problem as in option E it acts as a non-essential modifier. However, this fragment is essential for the meaning of the sentence. Am I correct? If not, could you please correct me?
Thanking you in advance!

Hello, ashmit99. Yes, in (E), the prepositional phrase in question is non-essential, but believe it or not, it could be used as such to emphasize how remarkable was the achievement of the Maya. The commas force the reader to pause, and those two pauses can create anticipation. In a standalone sentence, I could easily see the same notion conveyed in the following manner:

The Maya, without [even] the benefit of the wheel or animal transport, built huge palace and temple clusters.

I would not think twice about the above sentence. Be careful not to conflate non-essential with unimportant. The bigger issue with (E) is that we start off on the wrong foot:

Quote:
Architects and stonemasons, were the Maya...

Since we cannot negotiate the comma after the opening phrase, we are expecting a noun that pairs with architects and stonemasons to follow the comma, and instead we get a verb. I suppose if you were into Yoda-speak, you could invert a subject and its object, but even then, there would be no comma between object and verb:

Architects and stonemasons were the Maya...

I hope that helps clarify your concerns. Thank you for thinking to ask.

- Andrew


Thank you for the prompt response AndrewN

I have a follow-up question. Please see if you can help me on this. I would understand in case you don't help on unofficial questions.

1. Architects and stonemasons, the Maya built huge palace and temple clusters without the benefit of animal transport or the wheel.

2. Architects and stonemasons, the Maya, without the benefit of animal transport or the wheel, built huge palace and temple clusters.

If you have choice between 1 and 2, then you wouldn't reject either? Or would you choose 1 because of the better quality?

Thank you!
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Re: Architects and stonemasons, huge palace and temple clusters were built [#permalink]
AndrewN wrote:
ashmit99 wrote:
Thank you for the prompt response AndrewN

I have a follow-up question. Please see if you can help me on this. I would understand in case you don't help on unofficial questions.

1. Architects and stonemasons, the Maya built huge palace and temple clusters without the benefit of animal transport or the wheel.

2. Architects and stonemasons, the Maya, without the benefit of animal transport or the wheel, built huge palace and temple clusters.

If you have choice between 1 and 2, then you wouldn't reject either? Or would you choose 1 because of the better quality?

Thank you!

Hello again, ashmit99. Of the two sentences above, if I had to choose on a Sentence Correction question, I would go with the first one. Why? Because it is more direct in its usage of a subject-verb construct after the comma—the Maya built something—whereas the second sentence delays this vital information with a phrase interruptor. Still, I would not disfavor the second in a non-GMAT™ setting.

I hope that helps. I have to run to my next lesson (in one minute)!

- Andrew


Awesome! Thank for helping me out, AndrewN
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Re: Architects and stonemasons, huge palace and temple clusters were built [#permalink]
jitendra wrote:
Architects and stonemasons, huge palace and temple clusters were built by the Maya without benefit of the wheel or animal transport.


(A) huge palace and temple clusters were built by the Maya without benefit of the wheel or animal transport

(B) without the benefits of animal transport or the wheel, huge palace and temple clusters were built by the Maya

(C) the Maya built huge palace and temple clusters without the benefit of animal transport or the wheel

(D) there were built, without the benefit of the wheel or animal transport, huge palace and temple clusters by the Maya

(E) were the Maya who, without the benefit of the wheel or animal transport, built huge palace and temple clusters


C makes the most sense as a sentence but it looks like there's a typo in transcription of the question.
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Re: Architects and stonemasons, huge palace and temple clusters were built [#permalink]
Expert Reply
brianmontanaweb

What typo are you seeing?
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Re: Architects and stonemasons, huge palace and temple clusters were built [#permalink]
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