J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of sheer hours of music composed : Sentence Correction (EA only)

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sayantanc2k

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Re: J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of sheer hours of music composed [#permalink]

12 Mar 2016, 04:02

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goforgmat wrote:

sayantanc2k wrote:

smartguy595 wrote:

Hi chetan2u

I did not understand Split-2 in above OE ;

how the modifier including modifies people in options A,B & E

IMO as comma is present before participle "including" it modifies the Preceding clause by presenting additional information of the clause or describing the result of the clause

If comma is not there above explanation is fine.

Please advise where am I going wrong

A present participle modifier (a modifier starting with verb+-ing) may refer to the whole clause preceding it or to the subject of the preceding clause.

Here the modifier starting with including should refer to hours of music composed, which is neither the whole clause nor the subject of the clause in options A, B amd E.

However an -ing modifier, like all other modifiers, may refer to an antecedent just preceding it. Hence option C is correct - the modifier including two hundred..... refers to the antecedent (hours of music composed) it touches (although I would still question the use of comma in option C).

hi Chetan,

A verb-ing modifier preceded with a Comma always does two things 1.Present additional information about an action that happened in the preceding clause 2. Present the effect of the action that took place in the preceding clause.

If there was no comma it directly modifies the hours of music composed.
But with Comma it looks like J S BAch is more prolific by including hours of music composed.
Which doesn't look correct to me.

Please correct me if i am wrong.

Thanks,
go

Yes, your feeling that it "doesn't look correct" is correct !

Let me try to clarify further (to my previous post) why such usage is wrong:

Present participle modifier, verb-ing modifier preceded with a Comma, may refer to either of the following two things:

1. Subject of the preceding clause.
Example: Bhagat Singh entered the hall, shouting slogans against the ruler.
The modifier shouting slogans against the ruler refers to the subject of the previous clause Bhagat Singh.

2. The preceding clause as a whole. (frequently an effect of the previous clause)
The average temperature of the world has increased, causing the arctic snow to melt.
The modifier causing the arctic snow to melt refers to the preceding clause as a whole (the effect of the preceding clause).

However the -ing clause cannot refer to an antecedent which is neither the subject of the preceding clause nor the preceding clause as whole.

3. Bose's Indian National Army fought against the British fiercely, finding it more and more difficult to contain the growing military strength of Bose's army.
The modifier finding it more and more difficult .......Bose's army should refer to the British; however the British is neither the subject of the previous clause nor the clause as a whole.Therefore the modifier usage is wrong in this case.

With the same reasoning the modifier including over two hundred ......for solo instruments. should refer to hours of music composed; however hours of music composed is neither the subject of the previous clause nor the clause as a whole.Therefore the modifier usage is wrong in this case.

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Re: J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of sheer hours of music composed [#permalink]

10 Mar 2016, 06:45

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Hi chetan2u

I did not understand Split-2 in above OE ;

how the modifier including modifies people in options A,B & E

IMO as comma is present before participle "including" it modifies the Preceding clause by presenting additional information of the clause or describing the result of the clause

If comma is not there above explanation is fine.

Please advise where am I going wrong

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Re: J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of sheer hours of music composed [#permalink]

10 Mar 2016, 08:30

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The intent of the text is that Bach produced more music than others. Its intention is to compare the volume of his composing which were more than the works of other composers.
The non-underlined adverbial modifier ‘including’ does modify Bach and his music compositions. One may see it refers to works and not persons. That is the reason A, B and E are out. Between C and D, D is a fragment. C prevails

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J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of sheer hours of music composed [#permalink]

13 Mar 2016, 07:06

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Hi smartguy595,
As daagh said, 'including' must modify the objects immediately preceding it.
This is the same explanation you'll find in ron's videos as well.
Most of the time, sentences with 'including'can be broken by comparing what is compared to what.
From :including over two hundred complete cantatas..... it is very clear that something other than 'composer' is compared, i.e, his work. eliminate A, B, E.
Now D is a fragment(incomplete sentence)=>eliminate
Only C makes sense=>right

Give kudos if it makes sense

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Re: J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of sheer hours of music composed [#permalink]

04 Aug 2015, 18:08

Chose C because of the modifier touch rule

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J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of sheer hours of music composed [#permalink]

09 Mar 2016, 10:19

Q J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of sheer hours of music composed than was any other classical composer, including over two hundred complete cantatas and almost 500 separate works for solo instruments.

A)J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of sheer hours of music composed than was any other classical composer
B)J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of sheer hours of music composed than any other classical composer
C)J.S. Bach was more prolific than any other classical composer in terms of sheer hours of music composed
D)J.S. Bach, more prolific than any other classical composer in terms of sheer hours of music composed
E)In terms of sheer hours of music composed, J.S. Bach was more prolific than any other classical composer

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Re: J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of sheer hours of music composed [#permalink]

09 Mar 2016, 10:23

smartguy595 wrote:

Q J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of sheer hours of music composed than was any other classical composer, including over two hundred complete cantatas and almost 500 separate works for solo instruments.

A)J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of sheer hours of music composed than was any other classical composer
B)J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of sheer hours of music composed than any other classical composer
C)J.S. Bach was more prolific than any other classical composer in terms of sheer hours of music composed
D)J.S. Bach, more prolific than any other classical composer in terms of sheer hours of music composed
E)In terms of sheer hours of music composed, J.S. Bach was more prolific than any other classical composer

Search for a question before starting a new thread. This question has already been discussed before. Merging topics.

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Re: J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of sheer hours of music composed [#permalink]

12 Mar 2016, 01:23

sayantanc2k wrote:

smartguy595 wrote:

Hi chetan2u

I did not understand Split-2 in above OE ;

how the modifier including modifies people in options A,B & E

IMO as comma is present before participle "including" it modifies the Preceding clause by presenting additional information of the clause or describing the result of the clause

If comma is not there above explanation is fine.

Please advise where am I going wrong

A present participle modifier (a modifier starting with verb+-ing) may refer to the whole clause preceding it or to the subject of the preceding clause.

Here the modifier starting with including should refer to hours of music composed, which is neither the whole clause nor the subject of the clause in options A, B amd E.

However an -ing modifier, like all other modifiers, may refer to an antecedent just preceding it. Hence option C is correct - the modifier including two hundred..... refers to the antecedent (hours of music composed) it touches (although I would still question the use of comma in option C).

hi Chetan,

A verb-ing modifier preceded with a Comma always does two things 1.Present additional information about an action that happened in the preceding clause 2. Present the effect of the action that took place in the preceding clause.

If there was no comma it directly modifies the hours of music composed.
But with Comma it looks like J S BAch is more prolific by including hours of music composed.
Which doesn't look correct to me.

Please correct me if i am wrong.

Thanks,
go

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Re: J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of sheer hours of music composed [#permalink]

13 Mar 2016, 01:47

Hi sayantanc2k,

As per your explanation above, option C must be incorrect; but OE is C..Still confusing

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Re: J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of sheer hours of music composed [#permalink]

13 Mar 2016, 12:09

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smartguy595 wrote:

Hi sayantanc2k,

As per your explanation above, option C must be incorrect; but OE is C..Still confusing

sayantanc2k wrote:

However an -ing modifier, like all other modifiers, may refer to an antecedent just preceding it. Hence option C is correct - the modifier including two hundred..... refers to the antecedent (hours of music composed) it touches (although I would still question the use of comma in option C).

Please see my explanation above. However ideally the comma should not have been there.

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J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of sheer hours of music composed [#permalink]

27 Jul 2017, 02:47

sayantanc2k wrote:

Yes, your feeling that it "doesn't look correct" is correct !

Let me try to clarify further (to my previous post) why such usage is wrong:

Present participle modifier, verb-ing modifier preceded with a Comma, may refer to either of the following two things:

1. Subject of the preceding clause.
Example: Bhagat Singh entered the hall, shouting slogans against the ruler.
The modifier shouting slogans against the ruler refers to the subject of the previous clause Bhagat Singh.

2. The preceding clause as a whole. (frequently an effect of the previous clause)
The average temperature of the world has increased, causing the arctic snow to melt.
The modifier causing the arctic snow to melt refers to the preceding clause as a whole (the effect of the preceding clause).

However the -ing clause cannot refer to an antecedent which is neither the subject of the preceding clause nor the preceding clause as whole.

3. Bose's Indian National Army fought against the British fiercely, finding it more and more difficult to contain the growing military strength of Bose's army.
The modifier finding it more and more difficult .......Bose's army should refer to the British; however the British is neither the subject of the previous clause nor the clause as a whole.Therefore the modifier usage is wrong in this case.

With the same reasoning the modifier including over two hundred ......for solo instruments. should refer to hours of music composed; however hours of music composed is neither the subject of the previous clause nor the clause as a whole.Therefore the modifier usage is wrong in this case.

IMO, the reason why "including" could refer to "hours of music," an antecedent which is neither the subject of the preceding clause nor the preceding clause itself, is that "including" is not the start of a participial phrase, but of a adjectival phrase. The adjective "including over 200 cantatas" modifies the noun "hours of music."

Look at these examples:

"The police arrested at least 135 people, claiming that such detentions are for data collection" - participial phrase, modifying the subject of main clause.

"The police arrested at least 135 people, sparking a wave of protests in the public" - participial phrase, modifying the whole main clause.

"The police arrested at least 135 people, including youths and children" - adjectival phrase, modifying a noun ("135 people").

That's why we have this correct sentence:

"J.S. Bach was more prolific than any other composer in terms of hours of music composed, including over 200 cantatas..."

My question is, if "including" is a preposition, does it have to follow the Modifier Touch Rule? Because I encounter some sentences like this actually being used in the news:

"At least 135 people were arrested, including 79 West Papuan youths and children" (1)

So why wouldn't this sentence be correct (answer B):

"J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of hours of music composed than any other composer, including over 200 cantatas..."

EDIT 1: Oh I made a big mistake! In the sentence (1), "including" becomes a participle modifying the subject "135 people," that's probably why it doesn't have to touch the noun!

EDIT 2: I also found another example where "including" doesn't follow the Touch Rule:

"The police arrested the people in the slums, including youths and children"

In this case, "including" modifies "people." However, another modifier, "in the slums," is the vital modifier; hence, it could come between "people" and "including," which is a non-vital modifier.

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Re: J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of sheer hours of music composed [#permalink]

10 Oct 2017, 02:55

mynguyen62 wrote:

IMO, the reason why "including" could refer to "hours of music," an antecedent which is neither the subject of the preceding clause nor the preceding clause itself, is that "including" is not the start of a participial phrase, but of a adjectival phrase. The adjective "including over 200 cantatas" modifies the noun "hours of music."

Look at these examples:

"The police arrested at least 135 people, claiming that such detentions are for data collection" - participial phrase, modifying the subject of main clause.

"The police arrested at least 135 people, sparking a wave of protests in the public" - participial phrase, modifying the whole main clause.

"The police arrested at least 135 people, including youths and children" - adjectival phrase, modifying a noun ("135 people").

That's why we have this correct sentence:

"J.S. Bach was more prolific than any other composer in terms of hours of music composed, including over 200 cantatas..."

My question is, if "including" is a preposition, does it have to follow the Modifier Touch Rule? Because I encounter some sentences like this actually being used in the news:

"At least 135 people were arrested, including 79 West Papuan youths and children" (1)

So why wouldn't this sentence be correct (answer B):

"J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of hours of music composed than any other composer, including over 200 cantatas..."

EDIT 1: Oh I made a big mistake! In the sentence (1), "including" becomes a participle modifying the subject "135 people," that's probably why it doesn't have to touch the noun!

EDIT 2: I also found another example where "including" doesn't follow the Touch Rule:

"The police arrested the people in the slums, including youths and children"

In this case, "including" modifies "people." However, another modifier, "in the slums," is the vital modifier; hence, it could come between "people" and "including," which is a non-vital modifier.

C is the correct answer

The meaning of the sentence is very essential here, it makes sense that the "music composed" is what is being modified by "including"

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J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of sheer hours of music composed [#permalink]

24 Jun 2021, 21:03

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J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of sheer hours of music composed than was any other classical composer, including over two hundred complete cantatas and almost 500 separate works for solo instruments.

A) J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of sheer hours of music composed than was any other classical composer
B) J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of sheer hours of music composed than any other classical composer
C) J.S. Bach was more prolific than any other classical composer in terms of sheer hours of music composed
D) J.S. Bach, more prolific than any other classical composer in terms of sheer hours of music composed
E) In terms of sheer hours of music composed, J.S. Bach was more prolific than any other classical composer

A, B, and E are out because in the original sentence- after the comma( , ), the phrase is referring to music composed and not to the composer. Therefore, we need the sentence to end in reference to the music composed so that the rest of the sentence is rightly placed with the examples of cantatas and other solo works.

D is wrong due to the comma again that is just before the "... including over two hundred" part of the original sentence. If used, D would connect J.S. Bach to "... including over two hundred" which would not make any sense as the "... including ..." does not refer to J.S. Bach.

We are left with E which takes care of the aforementioned issues and leaves us with a meaningful sentence.

E would be my answer.

B

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Re: J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of sheer hours of music composed [#permalink]

02 Jul 2021, 04:54

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including over two hundred complete cantatas…. is the music he composed and not a composer

so A, B, E are wrong modifiers

in Answer choice D: if you drop the entire phrase between the first and the second comma, then the phrase "including over two hundred complete cantatas..." incorrectly modifies J.S. Bach hence incorrect

that leaves with answer choice C, Correct answer.

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Re: J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of sheer hours of music composed [#permalink]

11 Jul 2023, 12:45

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Re: J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of sheer hours of music composed [#permalink]

11 Jul 2023, 12:45

GMAT Sentence Correction (EA only) Questions

J.S. Bach was more prolific in terms of sheer hours of music composed