More feedback for potential real estate student

Question

Hey all,

I have appreciated everyone's consistently helpful feedback throughout the application process. I've noticed that quite a few people have started posting the decisions they are coming up against regarding schools, scholarships, etc. and I thought I'd take advantage of the collective knowledge here to see if I can get any feedback now that it's my turn to make a decision.

My situation is a bit different, because I am specifically interested in real estate. I've grown up around it, worked for a real estate business since finishing undergrad, and I'm hoping I'll be able to continue working in real estate after going back to school. Specifically, I'm interested in investment and development.

My decision has come down to attending the UNC Kenan-Flagler, where they have a real estate concentration and solid connections in the industry, or modifying the traditional MBA route by moving to Ithaca and enrolling in the Program in Real Estate at Cornell. It's basically a two-year program, separate from the Johnson School, that puts a real estate spin on all the traditional MBA coursework.

I was considering doing a three year dual-degree at Cornell, combining the Master's in Real Estate with an MBA at the Johnson School, but wound up waitlisted at the Johnson School. During the dual-degree program, I'd spend the first year in the Program in Real Estate anyway, so I could apply again to Johnson School next year, but at this point I'm leaning toward only the real estate program, because I'd save a year's tuition and be able to go out and get a job a year earlier.

So, to summarize, it's Kenan-Flagler or Program in Real Estate at Cornell. No scholarships in the mix to break a tie, but as always I'd appreciate any feedback anyone may have who is considering real estate themselves, or just wants to offer an opinion. Thanks to all!

aaudetat · Answer

paul -

I don't know anything about real estate at either school, unfortunately....but congrats on two admits. Maybe talking to current students would be helpful?

aau

PaulK · Answer

Thanks aau. I've spent quite a bit of time talking to current students, and am continuing to do so.

The Program in Real Estate is appealing because it is so specifically focused on my interest, and Cornell is a good school, but a Master's in Real Estate is still a relatively new idea - the Cornell program is only about 15 years old.

My wife's ability to find a job in Ithaca is also a big part of the decision. If we go to Chapel Hill, the Triangle has so many more job openings for teachers.

It's nice to be at the point that I know what my options are, but now this seems like the hard part.

aaudetat · Answer

what does your wife do? i know the ithaca job market pretty well and have lots of contacts.

PaulK · Answer

She's an elementary school teacher. Since she has a job here right now, conducting a cross-country job search is going to be a challenge. Any contacts would be greatly appreciated.

mbaismine · Answer

Hi PaulK,
I am thinking about doing real estate......

What other schools did you apply to?

Thanks

lanter1 · Answer

I am also concentrating in real estate. I think it comes down to where you want to live after the program. Both programs are great but would you rather be in the southeast or northeast? You will end up in a great position with either school.

PaulK · Answer

Hey mbaismine,

I applied to:

UNC, Duke, Cornell (MBA & PRE), UC-Berkeley, and Vanderbilt.

If I were doing it again, I'd apply to:

UNC, Cornell (MBA & PRE), UC-Berkeley, MIT (MBA & MRED), and maybe Wharton.

Ultimately, I declined UNC and will be going to Cornell this coming Fall. If you want to get in to real estate, it's hard to top the real estate specific programs. I'm still trying to sort out if I'll also be pursuing an MBA while I'm there. If you want more so to seek the jobs that involve some real estate but aren't limited specifically to the industry, the dual degree or a strong MBA program like lanter at Yale sounds like a great option.

mbaismine · Answer

Hey PaulK,
Thank you so much for your suggestion.....
I am graduating from school this May and.......planning to take GMAT during summer and...apply to Bschools in the fall.....which means I don't have much work experience -both professional and real estate-related...My background is architecture by the way.

Most MRED programs would like to see applicants with a couple of real estate experience...
I don't think I have a shot at getting into those programs llike UNC and MIT.

I think my application would be much stronger since I got my BA in architecture and....propose to study RE (which I am interested in as well)...But I also would not mind getting an all-around general MBA education...

Would those schools which don't have RE spealization or have general Finance focus see me as fit for them? or.....Should I just apply to only those schools with RE focus?
I am wondering....what whould they think if they see sb...who want to study real estate and they don't have many real estate classes...Whould they ding me right away?

To have a better chance at non-RE-focus MBA schools, I should not bring up that much about my interest in RE???? or should I just talk about what I want to do with general finance stuff?

Thank you so much for your help in advance.....

PaulK · Answer

I don't know how well I can respond to your questions, mbaismine, because as you search through the different bschools you'll get an idea which ones you may like more than others and where the fit feels best.

There are several people with architecture as their background in the RE focused programs at Cornell, MIT, Columbia, USC, etc. However, it does appear that having at least a couple years work experience is relatively standard.

Right now it sounds like you're school search is just starting and remains pretty wide open. I'm happy to give you feedback as your search comes along, but hesitate to get too specific before you know exactly what you're hoping to get out of your time in grad school. You're going to get a good idea from everyone here on the forum of the cultures at the various schools, and you should be able to start to focus on the schools that sound most appealing to you.

dghazer · Answer

Hey PaulK, what were the final selling points for you on Cornell? Also, do you plan to work in RE in the northeast after graduation?

PaulK · Answer

dghazer,

That's interesting to think about, because I spent so much time over-analyzing everything between the two, but I haven't really looked back since deciding. First of all, Cornell seems to have a broader reach than UNC. I'm from the Northwest, so, if ultimately I decided to come back this way, and the school I went to mattered at all, Cornell has more connections in the area and a stronger name.

Another reason was that when I looked at the class list and course descriptions for the Program in Real Estate at Cornell, every course I read about sounded like it was exactly what I was interested in, whereas within the general MBA curriculum there were several classes that didn't sound particularly exciting to me.

When I visited UNC, I had a great time, the best of all the MBA programs I visited. But the Program in Real Estate at Cornell felt perfect for me, because it's a small group of people all interested in what I'm interested in, but from a variety of backgrounds. So, as long as the group is good, we should all share common interests and be able to help each other learn different aspects of the industry.

There was also a desire to try out somewhere new. I don't think there's any other time in my life I'm going to live in Ithaca, and after visiting, it's going to be a great place to be for a couple of years.

As to whether or not I'll be working in real estate in the Northeast after school, I suppose it depends on where the opportunities are. Looking at the placements from the Program in Real Estate, the graduates are all over the country. There are quite a few in the Northeast, California, and abroad, but there are grads all over the country.

I saw you're interested in healthcare. There's actually a current dual-degree student I talked with while I was visiting Cornell's PRE who is specifically pursuing healthcare real estate development and investment. Is that the type of aspects your interested in or is it something else? You sound like you have a very interesting story to tell when you're applying, you should do great. If you do apply to Cornell, you sound like a good candidate for a Park Fellowship (demonstrated leadership - full ride).

dghazer · Answer

PaulK

After deciding that I was ready to try something different, I have been slowly trying narrow down what that is. I have never worked in a corporate setting, so I have not really had exposure to what the realities are of many professions. I thought that I was interested in healthcare, but after volunteering in a hospital for the last few months, I am not quite sure I want to make that my focus.

Real estate has always been of interest to me, but I felt as if it was something I would do "on the side." My father owned a few rental units that he fixed up and made some decent supplementary income from. I figured once I had some extra cash, I would do somethig similar.

Cornell has always been at the top of my list since I own a company in Syracuse and would like to stay in somewhat close proximity if possible. After taking a look at their RE program, I began to explore RE development as an option. I am currently trying to discover if this is something that would hold my interest. I do think that the opportunity to live and explore a new city is one of the perks of going back to school and I am sure you will like Ithaca. I really like Cornell and I think that it will be my top choice next spring if admitted.

After I do a little more research, I hope you wont mind me hitting you with a few more questions about your research and decision.

PaulK · Answer

dghazer,

Of course, feel free to throw any questions that you may have my way. That's nice to be so local to the program. I am not particularly looking forward to the 2980 mile drive from Oregon to Ithaca.

Good luck with your continuing research and planning. Kudos for being so on top of the search process.

gixxer1000 · Answer

It's great to see fellow gmatclubbers looking at real estate. I'd like to add a couple points to the thread.

There are many different aspects to real estate. Where and what you want to do will greatly affect where you should go to school. You could work at a:

Developer (Duke Realty)
Hotel Owner (Lasalle Hotel Properties)
REIT (Vornado Realty Trust)
Private Equity (Blackstone)
Commercial Real Estate (TIAA-CREF)
Direct Real Estate Lender (Freddie Mac)
Homebuilder (Toll Brothers)
Brokerage Firm (CB Richard Ellis)
Property Manager (Cushman & Wakefield)
Asset Manage (JP Morgan Asset Management)
Accounting Firm (KPMG)

For some of these fields it's going to be better to get an MBA and study more financial concepts. You'll benefit by taking more specific development courses if you go into other ones.

Real esate can also be a very local market depending on what field you go into, especailly more of the development roles. In these fields you contacts will play just a big of role as what you know. For that reason it would be better to choose a local program or one with a good alumni base where you want to work.

Also understand that real estate is a very close knit community. These companies are not going to recruit on campus like traditional fields and the often promote from within. That doesnt mean you can break into the industry but you going to have to show how your passionate about real estate. With the boom of the housing marker you saw a lot of people at MBA programs say "hey, I'd like to get a piece of that action". Companies are looking for people that can show they are dedicated to the field. Taking a couple of real estate classes because you think you want to "flip houses on the side" isn't going to cut. Are you invlolved with the schools real estate club? Are you member of local real estate organizations? What certifications have you pursued?

Programs that should be on your list to check out:

MBA programs with real estate concentrations
UC Berkeley
Columbia
UNC
Wharton
USC
UT McCombs
Wisconsin

Masters of Science in Real Estate Programs
Cornell
MIT
USC
Columbia
NYU
Harvard (MDesS or MUP)

If you want to go more towards the financial aspects then you probably should go to one of the MBA programs. If you want to go into development look at the MSRED programs or consider a dual degree.

If you have limited experiece consider the dual degree. Cornell has a 3 year program that allows you to complete 2 internships. That program would be great in this situation. In contrast USC's MSRE program requires 2 years of work experience.

PaulK · Answer

Great post, gixxer!

mbaismine · Answer

Hi gixxer1000 and PaulK,
Thanks for very valuable information!!!

I guess you guys have more experience in real estate than me and...I would like to ask a couple of questions...

I am graduating from school this May with a major in archtiecture...I would like to apply to MBA programs this fall....My family owns a constrcution company and I have extensive work experince back in my home country.....
Having a RE-related job exp before applying to schools would make my application much stronger.....But its really hard to find a job realated to real estate development since my background is architecture.....

May be I could only find a job like clerk or administrative position in a real estate company but...that position is not sth interesting I can show off in my application. 
But in architecture industry, I would easily land like a junior architect position..... and I will be able to have certain amount of job responsibility appropriate to my background....

Should I go into real estate and start at a basic level or....Should I just take up that junior architect position after I graduate before application time? 
What would you like to suggest ways to start a career in real estate for ppl with non-biz background?

Thank you so much!!!!!

gixxer1000 · Answer

mbaismine

I wouldn't be too quick to say that you don't have work experience. In your post you say that you have extensive experience back home and your family owns a construction company. What did you do back home? Think about your experiences and how they relate to real estate.

Most people come into real esate from some other field. Because the real estate industry enompassess so many things. So people don't typically go to school get a BA in real estate, work for a real esate company and then go get an MBA or MRE. Heck, there are few schools that actually offer a BA in real estate.

So a lot of your experience is going to depend on what you want to do. For me I work in construction management. So I'm involved with estimating and bidding a project, buying out the contracts, setting up the procurement, coordinating the schedule, reviewing change orders, processing payments, etc. The point is if I wanted to work in acquisitions most of this would really account for nothing. Some finance guy who's never seen a construction site would probably have more insight. But now if we start talking about being a development associate the finance guy isn't going to have a clue. So think about what you've done and how it's led you to what you want to do in real estate.

Now if your only 22, getting ready to graduate and only worked part-time jobs here and there then I say take that position as a junior architect and learn everything you can. Don't just sit in the office and draw bull $hit details in AutoCAD and believe me there will be a lot of that. But also take the time to get out to the job site, talk with the engineers and contractors and get a good understanding of not only your aspect but the aspect of everyone else in the project. Too often I run into architects that draw a pretty picture but don't have a good understand of how it will actually be built. Don't be that architect! Especially since it sounds like you dont want to be an architect the rest of your life. Use it as an opportunity to get free insight into everything.

PaulK · Answer

Another great post gixxer!

mbaismine, I only have a couple things to add. There are at least a handful of former architects in the PRE at Cornell, and I think it is a relatively common transition.

The one former architect I talked with while I was visiting Cornell told me they didn't want to just be building things for other people, but actually wanted to be involved in getting their ideas made reality.

I don't believe a background in architecture is going to do you any harm, and like gixxer said, I'd look to take advantage of the opportunities you have, because either way you go you're going to have a chance to learn from people in all ends of the business.

Having prior work experience is probably the most important part of applying to the various programs. Not only for the admissions officers, but also for potential employers. So don't rush in to a job just so you can go back to school. Make sure and absorb all you can in the interim.

gixxer1000 · Answer

Here is some more food for thought from an article about careers in real esate. I also attached a chart comparing 4 of the more prominent MSRED programs.

https://www.planetizen.com/node/20350

"When we talked to hiring managers, human resources directors, and executive recruiters about why they hire or recommend prospective employees, they said they look at an applicant's education and experience, as well as certain skill sets. Employers look to a growing number of schools -- including USC, Harvard, MIT, Columbia, Berkeley, Wisconsin, and the University of Pennsylvania that offer graduate programs in real estate, and some, such as New York's Baruch College, that offer undergraduate degrees. Many people have also gone into real estate with undergraduate degrees in liberal arts, or graduate degrees in business, accounting, law, or other disciplines.

The point is that prospective employers are primarily interested in a graduate's experience, however limited. James Klingbeil, CEO of the Klingbeil Company, a developer, owner and manager, told us that there are too few "mules" in real estate today. "By that I mean people who have actually built a house, developed land, or fixed up an old apartment building," he explained. His advice to those thinking of a career in real estate is to get some hands-on experience in construction. Employers also seek graduates who have worked as interns for appraisers, brokers, property managers, or other real estate companies, or for businesses generally. And they value graduates with experience in the public sector. For example, Renata Simril, currently vice president for development with Forest City Enterprises, a publicly traded, diversified real estate company, previously was deputy mayor for housing and economic development for the city of Los Angeles."

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