Terry: Some actions considered to be bad by our society have favorable

Question

Terry: Some actions considered to be bad by our society have favorable consequences. But an action is good only if it has favorable consequences. So, some actions considered to be bad by our society are actually good.

Pat: I agree with your conclusion, but not with the reasons you give for it. Some good actions actually do not have favorable consequences. But no actions considered to be bad by our society have favorable consequences, so your conclusion, that some actions our society considers bad are actually good, still holds.

Which one of the following correctly describes both an error in Terry’s reasoning and an error in Pat’s reasoning?

(A) presupposing that if a certain property distinguishes one type of action from another type of action, then that property is one of many properties distinguishing the two types of action

(B) presupposing that if most actions of a certain type share a certain property, then all actions of that type share that property

(C) presupposing that if a certain property is shared by actions of a certain type in a given society, then that property is shared by actions of that type in every society

(D) presupposing that if an action’s having a certain property is necessary for its being a certain type of action, then having that property is sufficient for being that type of action

(E) presupposing that if a certain property is shared by two types of action, then that property is the only property distinguishing the two types of action from actions of other types

stne · Answer

Certainly not an easy one !

Terry:  Some actions considered to be bad by our society have favorable consequences But an action is good if it has ONLY favorable consequences. So, some actions considered to be bad by our society are actually good.

Pat :no actions considered to be bad by our society have favorable consequences,so your conclusion, that some actions our society considers bad are actually good, still holds.

First let's understand How how Pat interprets Terry's conclusion to still be valid ?

Note Pat's statement: " no actions considered to be bad by our society have favorable consequences"

Terry's conclusion can still hold if those BAD actions that have favorable consequences have been erroneously classified as BAD well as these actions are NOT BAD, these actions should actually come under GOOD category. Hence in that sense some actions that the society considers BAD can still be good. (NOT in the sense that these BAD Actions have favorable outcomes,BUT in the sense that these BAD actions have been wrongly categorized .Hence some actions that the society considers bad are actually good, because these are NOT BAD actions in the first place.)

what is the common flaw in Both Terry's and Pat's reasoning?

(A) presupposing that if a certain property distinguishes one type of action from another type of action, then that property is one of many properties distinguishing the two types of action :  Not the flaw, property of favorable outcomes and unfavorable outcomes have only been discussed. That an action can be defined by many other properties is out of scope.INCORRECT.

(B)presupposing that if most actions of a certain type share a certain property, then all actions of that type share that property : 
 This is something only Pat believes ,PAT believes all bad actions are same, this is proved when Pat says " no actions considered to be bad by our society have favorable consequences " this is NOT something Terry believes. Terry believes "Some actions considered to be bad by our society have favorable consequences " Hence Terry does NOT share this rigid view. Hence this is NOT the common flaw.INCORRECT.

(C)presupposing that if a certain property is shared by actions of a certain type in a given society, then that property is shared by actions of that type in every society :  Clearly incorrect, DIFFERENT societies have never been discussed here.INCORRECT.

(D) presupposing that if an action’s having a certain property is necessary for its being a certain type of action, then having that property is sufficient for being that type of action :  Terry believes an action is good if it has ONLY good outcome. Pat believes all bad actions have ONLY bad outcome. So Terry believes Good outcome is the necessary and sufficient condition for an action to be classified as good. Pat believes bad outcome is the necessary and sufficient condition for an action to be classified as bad. This is the common flaw in both Terry's and Pat's argument. Hence the CORRECT ans.

(E) presupposing that if a certain property is shared by two types of action, then that property is the only property distinguishing the two types of action from actions of other types:  Not the flaw , whether the property of favorable outcome /unfavorable outcome is the only property distinguishing good and bad actions is certainly not the flaw in both Pat and Terry's argument.Out of scope .INCORRECT.

Ans- D

Hope it's clear.

SudhanshuC · Answer

Answer D

Actions  = Bad action and good action. 
  Property of the action  = Favorable consequence of (good) action.

Here, bad and good actions - both share favorable consequences (property of the action).

Since a property is shared, both actions are hence considered the same.

AbhishekP220108 · Answer

Here is the explanation from Powerscore LSAT, although I got the answer right but I wanted the explanation to check my understanding, hence copy pasting the exact answer

Before even looking at the answers, it's important to realize that both of these arguments contain an error in conditional reasoning that we refer to as a Mistaken Reversal, which basically means that the argument tries to go from a necessary condition to a sufficient condition, which is backwards. Of course, Mistaken Reversal is the term that we use, but the LSAT will describe this flaw in a number of ways, usually using the terms "sufficient" and/or "necessary" or synonyms for these terms, such as "confuses the necessary for the sufficient."

Here, Answer D is the only answer that uses these terms, and it correctly describes the Mistaken Reversals in the arguments above.

The "certain property" in Answer D refers to "favorable consequences" in Terry's argument, but refers to "not having favorable consequences" in Pat's argument.

The diagram for Terry's argument would be:

AG -> FC 
 (if an action is good, then it has favorable consequences)

Terry's argument then states that since some actions considered bad have FC (favorable consequences), some actions considered bad are AG (actually good).

Pat's argument uses the negative conditional statement "no" 
 The way that you diagram a negative conditional like "no, none, never," etc. is to negate the necessary. 
 Here, the diagram would be:

CB -> Not FC 
 (If an action is considered bad, then it does not have favorable consequences)

Pat's argument then states that since some good actions do not FC (do not have have favorable consequences), then some good actions CB (are considered bad).

As for the other answer choices,

Answer A is basically saying that if one property (like having favorable consequences) distinguishes two types of action, then there are many properties that distinguish them.

Answer B is basically saying that if most actions of a certain type (like good actions) share a quality (like favorable consequences), then all good actions would share that quality.

Answer C is basically saying that if certain actions (like good actions) share a certain quality (like favorable consequences) in a given society (like ancient Rome) then they would share that quality in all societies.

Answer E is basically saying that if a certain property (like favorable consequences) is shared by two different types of actions (like good actions and bad actions), then that quality is what distinguishes good and bad actions from all other actions (like actions that are neutral).

None of these wrong answers remotely get at the conditional flaw in the arguments above, and are just there to distract and confuse test takers. Having a solid prephrase really helps identify the correct answer here.

Hope this will helpful to all

PS-  Bunuel  I revised the Question Tag from Evaluate to Logical Flaw, since this the accurate one, test takers might get confused by looking at previously tagged question type "Evaluate"

Terry: Some actions considered to be bad by our society have favorable

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