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The Federal Reserve announcement said that growth had accelerated afte

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Re: The Federal Reserve announcement said that growth had accelerated afte  [#permalink]

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New post 06 Dec 2019, 17:56
GMATNinja wrote:
rohitasthana51 wrote:
Hello

I am new to GMAT and studying SC from Manhattan Prep SC guide. On the page 217 in Chapter 11 (GM/S-V/Parallelism: Extra) the book reads
Quote
The main exception to this pattern seems to be the verb say. Somewhat oddly, the GMAT does not
require you to put that after the verb say.
Right: The water was so cold that people SAID polar bears would shiver.
The GMAT does not explain why this omission is acceptable, but the reason is probably that there is
very little chance of confusion:

Unquote

Please help me understand this paradox, Any help will be much appreciated.

Thanks

As the Manhattan guide notes, the question of whether it's preferable to use "that" really comes down to whether the meaning is clear without it. There's no hard rule here. Consider the following example:

    "Tim recommends that you try his two-month-old sushi, unless you're worried about intestinal parasites and vomiting."

Here, you'd probably want to use "that." Not because it's required, but because without "that," the sentence becomes slightly more confusing.

    "Tim recommends you try his two-month old sushi, unless you're worried about intestinal parasites and vomiting."

Is this a definitive grammatical error? No. But because Tim could also recommend "you" for something, you might have to read this sentence more than once to figure out that Tim isn't recommending a person, the way you might recommend someone for a job; he's recommending that the person do something. The word "that" clarifies the meaning in the first example, so it's better, even if the second example isn't technically wrong.

When it comes to "said" there's less ambiguity. For example:

    "Tim said you should avoid eating rotten food in general, and if you don't, it's not really his problem."

Here, even without "that" no reasonable reader would interpret this sentence to mean that Tim said the word "you." The reason, of course, is that when we're trying to capture an exact quote, we use, well, quotes. So again, this is not officially a rule, but because this scenario lacks the same kind of confusion that we see in the examples with "recommend," the GMAT accepts it.

I hope that helps!


Dear GMATNinja,

I saw that you responded above to a question before mine. Would you please kindly help me with mine, too? I'm really mad at this question/ answer choice. Thanks a lot!
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The Federal Reserve announcement said that growth had accelerated afte  [#permalink]

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New post 13 Dec 2019, 21:24
Few vs Little. Few used for countable. Little used for uncountable nouns. Few is correct here.
C D out
B. that missing growth had accelerated after slowing in the second quarter and that the policy makers remain concerned about the prospects of inflation, even though there are few
The federal announcement itself did not say ………………………. B out. Parallelism not maintained.
Btw A and E
A and E follow the same structure.
S+V THAT
What follows THAT is a new Subject Verb Pair.
E uses simple past tense, which is incorrect, said is the later event and accelerated is the past even.The earlier of multiple past events must use the past perfect.
A correct
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Re: The Federal Reserve announcement said that growth had accelerated afte  [#permalink]

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New post 17 Dec 2019, 16:36
Is there any good rule to know whether a noun is countable or not?

My intuition told me "sign" was not countable, but the answer was the opposite.

Thanks!
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Re: The Federal Reserve announcement said that growth had accelerated afte  [#permalink]

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New post 18 Dec 2019, 01:18
plumber250 wrote:
Hi Nikhil,

Let me see if I can help.

The part of the passage pertinent to your question is this

The Federal Reserve announcement said that growth had accelerated


I've highlighted the two verbs.

The key thing as you say is the difference with whether you need 'had'. And you're also correct in the meaning of the two different tenses.

What you've missed is the connection between 'said' and 'accelerated' - the acceleration needs to have happened prior to the saying - or else that would not make sense.

Said is simple past, so accelerated needs to be in the tense that indicates it was done before the simple past. So you need 'had'

James


with all respects, I do not know why we can defy "accelerated". "accelerated"here can show an action happen simultaneously with "said'.
yesterday I said he WAS DOING a good job and he IS a good student.
above sentence is correct. why choice e is incorrect?
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Re: The Federal Reserve announcement said that growth had accelerated afte  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Dec 2019, 12:41
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shabuzen102 wrote:
Dear Expert,

I'd like to get some clarifications with this question. Yes, it's about the past perfect tense again.

1. How can we be certain that the action of acceleration happens before the announcement? Couldn't it happen at the same time?

2. If the answer to the above question is that something has to happen before you say it happens, then what about examples of sentences we say all the time, "He knew he was right" "He said he saw the car coming in" etc. Shouldn't they be "He knew he had been right" and "He said he had seen the car coming in" etc.?

3. From a few creditable resources (Manhattan and Magoosh), we've acknowledged that we wouldn't have to use past perfect if that tense is understood from the context. If by using "said" to describe an action, we should immediately know that that action must have happened before saying. That means the past perfect tense is understood. Then wouldn't "had accelerated" be redundant?

4. If reported speech in the past requires past perfect tense for the thing described, then is it the general rule that there's not EVER any question that uses perfect tense in both, and something like "The authority said that the economy slowed down" or "The officials reported that people liked the recent data" would always be wrong?

Thank you!

Sorry for the delay!

It wouldn't really make sense for the action of acceleration to start at EXACTLY the same time as the announcement. How can you announce something that hasn't happened yet?

Now we can certainly announce an ongoing process, but in that case we would want something like, "The Federal Reserve announcement said that growth was accelerating..." - that would imply that the acceleration was still happening at the time of the announcement, but we don't have that option here.

As for your examples, "He knew he was right," actually conveys a slightly different meaning than "He knew he had been right":

  • "He knew he was right." - The action of being "right" doesn't stop before the action of "knowing". Being "right", in this case, is a continuous action.
  • "He KNEW he had been right when he answered the question on the exam, so he was surprised when he saw an "F" on the graded exam." When did the action of "knowing" happen? At some point in the past (the moment he saw that "F" on his exam). When did the action of "being right" happen? At a DISTINCT time in the past (well before the exam was graded). This construction stresses the difference in the timing of the two actions.

We don't need to make that distinction in conversation, but there's a difference between what passes in day-to-day speech and what's correct on the GMAT! And remember, that the GMAT isn't about coming up with hard and fast rules to blindly apply to future problems. We have to compare the five choices and "select the answer that produces the most effective sentence."

Here we have to choose between "had accelerated" and "accelerated". The use of the past perfect ("had accelerated") makes the chronology crystal clear: the acceleration happened in the past (after the slowing), and the announcement happened at a later point in the past. That makes perfect (no pun intended) sense!

The use of the simple past ("accelerated') is less clear and allows for an interpretation that doesn't make any sense (that the acceleration started at the same time as the announcement).

Does this mean we can carve some rules in stone when it comes to the past perfect and apply those rules to every other sentence we see? Absolutely not. But among the five choices on THIS question, (A) is the best.
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Re: The Federal Reserve announcement said that growth had accelerated afte  [#permalink]

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New post 13 Jan 2020, 00:18
As far as I understood past perfect tense, it is used to denote the earlier action and the two events must be related. How is that we are relating the two events announcement was made and the growth had accelerated. How are these two events related?
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Re: The Federal Reserve announcement said that growth had accelerated afte   [#permalink] 13 Jan 2020, 00:18

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