Need Advice -Two Fail grades in Undergrad. Should ask ADCOM?

Question

I need advice on the following situation :

I am going to an inhouse event at a top-school and would like to get ADCOM's ( Representative's) view on my Undergrad transcript and its influence on my application ( I have a fail grade in Probability and another one Power Electronics ).

Furthermore, I would like to ask them if an Alternative Transcript in Probability and Statistics from open university would help remove any doubts that they might have.

Is it a good idea to approach them with the questions above ??

btw. I have a GMAT Quant score of 50, which can also help.

andrewcs · Answer

My friend has a similar situation. From the HBS and Haas adcoms, I can tell you that they will state 'we consider all parts of your application' and 'if you are weak in one area, you need to be that much stronger in your other areas'.

I think you are in a decent situation. Your quantitative score shows MORE RECENT proof that you are capable quantitatively. If you took Probs and Stats at a later date, it also shows that you are persistent, which is a good thing. Also, if you overall GPA is reasonable, you still stand a good chance.

This may be something you want to cover in the 'additional information' essay - provided that you have a good reason for the grades or a valuable life lesson you learned from the experience, you should be able to spin a positive light on the grades. You might even mention other courses that demonstrate quantitative proficiency in which you did extremely well.

I would not be shy about asking the adcom on what they suggest, but most likely you will be a vague answer!

topa · Answer

Personally, I don't think fail grades in undergrad matter if you have spent 4-5 years away from college. It's your past, there is not much you can do to change it. If you have managed to take the tests and better your grades, good for you. You can mention that in your alternate essay.

Disclosure: I had fail grades in my Math and Engineering undergrad courses too and utilized my alternate essay to talk about how I improved from these setbacks. Everything is "spinable" :-)

rhyme · Answer

Here I'll answer it for you: "Well, we don't typically review transcripts prior to the application, so I can't make time to specifically look at your grades. Keep in mind that we take a holistic point of view and consider all facets of your background including your academics, GMAT, work experiences, letters of recommendation, demonstrated leadership, extracurricular involvement, etc. If you think that your application would benefit from an alternative transcript, you are welcome to take the a course, but we don't' provide specific direction in this regard to candidates. Next question from the audience?"

My advice: Consider the relative importance of those two Fs -- were they when you were a freshman? (e.g. adjustment period explanation?) Were they two poor grades in an otherwise strong transcript? Do you have an upwards progression in your grades (eg. C average as a freshman, A average as a senior)? Are these grades as old as the Olsen twins? All of these things would mitigate their relevance.

msunny · Answer

@andrew, @topa
Thanks for sharing your views.

@rhyme
Thanks for your views and esp. the presentation style. I like.

Frankly speaking, the Professors is those two UG courses had an ego issue with me. I was not regular with their classes as I was taking a lot of other courses. They went strictly by the rule book and handed me an F. It was 8 years back and I cannot change that now. Just that I have to present it positively in the additional essay. I learnt how to prioritize time and can better analyse and distribute my work load now.

An alternative transcript would definitely add something positive to my overall application, but it is the investment of time and effort that is critical.

coaks · Answer

I know professor personality can definitely be a factor in how your performance/participation is graded. As someone who also received failing grades during undergrad, I was in a similar situation but I'm making application headway myself.

I would try to think about the most diplomatic way of presenting your situation to adcom; just beware of seeming brash or unrepentant. I can think of several ways of describing your attendance issue that could be perceived negatively. Maybe have several people review your optional piece, perhaps people with which you've never worked or studied, and ask them for their perception of you afterwards. If it's purely positive, you've got a winner. Otherwise, consider explicating in different ways.

Good luck, though!

rhyme · Answer

Hows your overall GPA? Your GMAT? (edit: ah 740, looks plenty good there) Based on the fact that it was 8 years ago and provided that the rest of your transcript is relatively strong, I likely would not bother with an alternative transcript. I think it warrants a brief explanation however, especially if they are outliers (and if they are not, then you'd need the alternative).

Your "explanation" needs a bit of thought though. MBA programs are full of ridiculously over-sized egos, there's little (if anything) positive in an argument about "risks of not attending courses" (that would imply that you might skip classes in your MBA program because the reward > the risk? -- probably not something you want to admit), you seem to be deflecting the blame somewhat (by the rule book doesn't make them "bad" professors). I realize that you probably wouldn't be as blunt as you are here, but just keep those things in mind. Remember that in cases like these, less is more.

My advice? Take a bite of the proverbial sandwich, suck it up, and take the blame.

All I would say is something like:

* It occurred 8 years ago (remind them how long ago this is)
 * Due to poor prioritization and time management skills I didn't give the courses the attention they deserved (take ownership)
 * However, as you can see from my subsequent coursework.... (something positive)
 * Therefore, I am confident that .... (a nice positive and strong close)

Remember, less is more.

Jerz · Answer

I agree with rhyme's approach. At bschool you will have a ton of competing priorities on your time - recruiting, ECs, other classes - so planting a seed with the adcom that you skip classes when you get busy isn't a real great way to win their hearts over. Take ownership for the failing grades (definitely don't suggest it's the professor's fault for being a hardass), and show how you've grown since then. Unless the Fs were in the only quantitative courses you've ever taken and you don't have a strong quant score on your GMATs, I don't think it's necessary to create an alternate transcript.

Need Advice -Two Fail grades in Undergrad. Should ask ADCOM?

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