MBA and GMAT

Question

B-Schools should put more emphasis on behavioral management rather than focus on "number crunchers." As such, it is time to get rid of the GMAT and have test that will evaluate prospective applicants leadership skills.

GMATLA · Answer

The GMAT tests your verbal and quantitative abilities... nothing else, and nothing more.

The rest can usually be determined by the rest of your application (Essays, work experience, letters of rec, extra curriculars, resume, etc...) I'm not sure what you have in mind, but much of the GMAT has been determined by what MBA programs "want" in MBA students. This is why the new Integrated Reasoning section was added.

You might not like the GMAT, but its a hoop we all have/had/will deal with.

"number crunching" is a huge part of management in the corporate world. Statistics, finance, accounting, and numbers in a general can be one of the strongest managerial pieces of information. Plus, MBA programs want students that will excel in their program and if you can't handle Quant then you probably won't excel. Easy as that...

bb · Answer

There is a number of programs that will take candidates without GMAT - University of Phoenix is always looking for candidates. 
Jokes aside, how would you evaluate leadership skills? What test would it be?

P.S. GMAT is often not the driver for the top 20 schools - they understand this and that's why you have LOR's and Essays.

gijoedude · Answer

I would have to disagree with that. Yes GMAT is not the be all and all but it's very important. I went to a Tuck info session and the adcom unequivocally said that a high GMAT score won't get you in, but a low one (less than 700) will keep you out. But after you hit 700, your GMAT score is just a check-mark and they move on to your essays and LORs.

goodbyeboy · Answer

https://www.tuck.dartmouth.edu/admissions/how-to-apply/tuck-class-of-2012-profile/

As of September 2011, their GMAT range is from 570 to 790, with the average score of 718.

Not sure how you got the information from the adcom that the low score, specifically less than 700, will keep people out of Tuck, but it looks like you might have misinterpreted IMO. I am sure a lot of people from GMAT Club have gotten into Tuck with lower than 700 score.

Also, if school does simply filter out anyone with score lower than 700, I think they'll be missing out a lot of great candidates.

gladiator999 · Answer

To some extent I agree with you buddy. Gmat is not the only criteria to enter in a B School . The schools look at your leadership skills and experience . Having said that, Gmat serves the B School in identifying that whether a candidate will be able to cope up with the strenuous curriculum at the B school or. not
You are absolutely right in saying that B schools do take candidates with lower Gmat score, but these cndidates have got a higher GPA on the other side and that reflects that they are good into academics and will be able to cope up with the studies at the B School. B schools also take candidates with a diverse profile even if they have got a lower Gmat score . The entire purpose behind it is to make the class full off people with varied exp and so that there is too much to learn beyond the classroom.

Consulting2Finance · Answer

While not the intent, I think this thread somewhat undermines those that do well on the GMAT but assuming they are only number crunchers and don't have managemetn skills or outside curriculars.

Schools already only partially use the GMAT. You often need a minimum score and then it's fair game. The reason for this is they need to be able to know you can handle the curriculum. This is why the acceptable GMAT score often goes down as your undergraduate GPA increases.

The thing is at top schools, it is not a matter of the school choosing between someone with a 720+ GMAT and a great non-GMAT profile. For the vast majority of those accepted it is both.

gijoedude · Answer

If the GMAT average is 718 do you really think there are multitudes of people with less than 700 score? Sure there might be one or two people who had scores like 570, but you just need to let in one person with 570 to make the range.

I am not misinterpreting anyone. She pretty much made it clear that a high GMAT score will not let you in. A dork with a 780 with bad experience is not getting into Tuck. But a weak GMAT score WILL keep you out. She specifically told us to get as high a score possible on GMAT but said that if you have a higher than 700 GMAT score focus on parts of the app. They do let in some people with lower GMATs, but they have very unusual profiles (started a high profile NGO, worked in govt with high ranking officials).

But for you "average" white/Asian/Indian dude who works in finance/consulting/engineering, best of luck trying to get into Tuck (or other M7/Top 15) with a 640. Why? There are thousands of applicants like you went to similar colleges, worked at similar companies, have similar experiences AND have high GMAT scores. The steadily increasing GMAT average at schools shows how important GMAT is. Most of the adcoms will give you the PC talk, but let's be honest here folks: GMAT is very important. It's not the ONLY criteria, but do not take it lightly.

Another reason adcoms want a high GMAT is that top employers (i.e prestigious consulting firms, top financial firms etc) use GMAT as a proxy for intelligence and use it as a cut-off while handing out first round interviews. If a person is aiming for a top consulting/finance firms, they would be making their lives much harder with a lower GMAT.

Btw I am talking strictly about M7/Top 15 or so schools here. I am sure at lower ranked schools GMAT matters less.

MrTunes · Answer

To piggyback on what some others have said, I don't think having a sub-700 GMAT necessarily precludes you from getting into a top school. That being said, if it is sub-700, then there will need to be something elsewhere to make up for not having the requisite GMAT score, whether it's an extremely high GPA from a challenging school, a very impressive work experience/LOR, etc.

the GMAT is the one element that all applicants have in common and the only element that can't be easily faked. You can BS your resume, you can write your own recommendations. You can hire someone to write impeccable essays that have almost nothing to do with you. You can use connections to get a job at a good company. Even GPA varies widely from school to school, where some schools average a 3.4 GPA and others average well below a 3.0. The GMAT is the only element of the application that can't be faked.

Is it the best indicator of how successful you will be? Of course not, but it does test your ability to learn a relatively finite amount of content and be able to process that content effectively in a stressful, time-sensitive environment, which is not unlike what happens in the business world.

The GMAT sucks. That much is certain. At the end of the day, however, is it a necessary evil.

goodbyeboy · Answer

I am not arguing whether GMAT is important - your earlier post said that a low GMAT score, specifically less than 700, will keep people out of the game for Tuck which I know isn't entirely true. That's why your previous post made me scratch my head. Being told to get the highest GMAT and to focus on the app with higher than 700 score doesn't quite mean they'll keep out people with lower than 700 score. As you said, they do take in applicants with lower than 700 score, regardless of how few they might be. That's why I was wondering whether there was a misinterpretation because for a school adcom to say that people with less than 700 will be out of the game seems very unusual and bizarre since we all know how ambiguous they're with their criteria. Thanks for the clarification.

jazzman · Answer

Which of the following, if true, most undermines the author's conclusion that it is time to get rid of the GMAT?

A.) Quantitative skills are a passing fad that will soon be phased out of all business decision-making
B.) Starting in 2013, all MBA programs will begin to accept  only  GRE scores.
C.) There is no test currently available that can test applicants on "soft skills" like leadership
D.) Behavioral Management will soon usurp all other areas of business 
E.) Doing well on the GMAT doesn't guarantee future success in business

lineitup6 · Answer

there is a "test" for leadership potential and it is called life...that's what the interview, essays and recommendations are trying to uncover. how in your life have you done on the leadership scale and what does all of this say aout your future potential????

they pretty much do test this topic and other soft topics in a written format - it's the essays.

they pretty much do test this topic and other soft topics in a written format - it's the essays.

jazzman · Answer

I completely agree with you. Those skills are vetted in the application process though the interview, essays, and recommendations.  But  I think it would be nearly impossible to develop a  test  that could accurately assign values to the soft skills.

p.s. I was kind of joking with my post....I was on a Critical Reasoning kick (studying for the GMAT in May), and thought it was funny that the original post mirrored the premise-conclusion structure of those questions.

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