Some schools are just not honest

Question

I just found out about this blog and wish I had come upon it earlier. In any event I writing about a recent experience that I had with the waitlist manager at a top 15 school. I've been on the waitlist for several months now and finally had the opportunity to speak with the waitlist manager of my school. She basically said that I should take the GMAT again to see if I can score higher. I have already taken the GMAT four times with no improvement on the quant so I will not take it again. The problem that I have with the waitlist manager is that I have already built an alternative transcript where I took Statistics, Calculus, Accounting and Economics at my local community college. I received As in each class so I would like to think that it shows that I am not afraid of numbers and would not have any issues with the business school work. I don’t understand how schools can somehow feel that the GMAT and/or GRE is a better gage at “predicting” success in the MBA program than recent classes. The experience just leads me to believe that schools simply play the MBA rankings game. Asking me to retake the GMAT is completely disingenuous on the school’s part. They clearly know that the MBA work wouldn’t be an issue for me but simply want a higher GMAT so that their precious ranking isn’t impacted. I call BS!

gcb09173 · Answer

Just to play devil's advocate here - the quant aspect of GMAT is not particularly hard - its pretty basic maths actually - but what it is really testing is are you able to do simple calculations fast and accurately in your head, often with unclear or confusing information - this is the predictor, not just of B-School success, but also of career success which the B-School is also keen to ensure.

They have more applicants than places so can be selective - the GMAT is one criteria that is comparable across all applicants - therefore if there are ten applicants with similar profiles like you and a slightly higher GMAT score - why would they select you?

If they have asked you to go out and get a higher GMAT score and you do so then that may show them how eager you are to study at their B-School (remember GMAT is the one thing that is in candidates control in the short term - everyone can go and resit it) and they may then move you to an admit. If you don't even sit it then they may feel you are not particularly fussed about doing whatever it takes to succeed - especially if everyone else on the waitlist who is asked to resit the GMAT go out and scrape 10 points more on their score.

The MBA work wont be an issue for the vast majority of students - in fact most will have done a lot of it before in undergrads - the key learning is in fellow students sharing their real life experiences at every stage, so you see how the theory is actually applied in practice - something undergrads are not capable of providing.

If business schools were purely playing the 'rankings' game - I'm not sure a top 15 would be too concerned about eeking out a couple extra points from waitlist candidates - then they wouldn't admit students from non-traditional backgrounds with low scores - there are examples of HBS taking people with below 600's.

If you really want to go to that B-School then maybe consider taking the GMAT again - 5 times is not really any worse than 4 times but you would need to put some effort into it - get even 10 points more and show the AdCom you really are serious about their programme, otherwise you might find others are coming off the waitlist before you?

mba20152015 · Answer

The issue is that schools all say that the GMAT is a predictor of success during the 1st year. I'm just contending that it is not especially for someone like me who has clearly demonstrated that I would not have a problem with the coursework.

gcb09173 · Answer

I think you've misunderstood me - I wasn't saying they dont - what I am saying is that the GMAT tests your ability to interpret information, undertake the necessary analysis, in a very short time frame to lead to a correct answer/decision. This is where BS's will see success - not regurgitation of SOX legislation or the Modigliani Miller Theorem.

Those who score higher are performing better in the assessments and the group work the BS will set.

They are unaware of how your alternative transcript was tested and they cannot compare your A's to someone undertaking the same courses at Princeton/Oxford/Harvard/HEC who are scoring B's. However on a GMAT test which they have used for years to guage potential success, they have found a correlation and thus use it as a entry criteria.

Having been waitlisted I am sure they have no doubt you have the ability to handle the course - but they are perhaps suggesting that based on GMAT they think theres other candidates who can demonstrate they can handle the course better than yourself. However the GMAT is a test than can be practiced for - forums like this and education bodies such as Kaplan exist because they can coach people into getting higher scores. Bemoaning the integrity of Business Schools will not help you get in - They've given you a course of action that could mean the difference between admit and ding and given you an opportunity to determine your future.

dtse86 · Answer

I agree with  gcb09173

The GMAT and the GRE are   standardized   test that give the admissions officers and educators a level comparison of applicants. GPA's and college course grades have too much variability from college to college and even professor to professor.

Also, all business schools play the "ranking game". It actually has an unfortunately large effect on the applicant numbers, quality of applicants, and yield rates for the schools. A school that can significantly improve it's rank, can improve it's incoming class, it's alumni base and so on. It's can be an upward spiral.

Anyways, along the same lines as gcb09173, if they put you on the waitlist, that means that they think you are already qualified enough to graduate from their program however it's also likely that you are on a waitlist among an already impressive group of people. With a higher GMAT score, they would be able to easily justify taking you off the waitlist over them. Business schools are extremely competitive now and a higher GMAT will help you edge out the competition.

Admissionado · Answer

Maybe you are right.. but at the same time, it's unfair to consider that the BSchool's concern of ranking to be irrelevant. Business schools are businesses, and rankings are their performance measurements, and something that brings in more "clients". and it's really up to them to decide what's best for their school.

But one thing that IS totally true is that I have very often noticed that Admissions offices will tell every candidate "your GMAT was too low" because they don't really have the resources/time/desire to give you a real analysis of what was problematic with your profile.

So my advice to you... just buckle down.. see if you think you can get higher on the GMAT, and just make the best applications you can this time around.

Best,
Jon

CriticalSquare · Answer

I agree with Jon here - we've noticed the same thing. The GMAT is such an easy scapegoat. Don't get me wrong, a lot of times for folks on the WL the real reason IS the GMAT but sometimes it isn't, or there are other factors at play. So even if you do get that feedback, make sure you look over your entire application to figure out where the weak spots are. Just because some are more obvious than others doesn't mean the others don't exist.

As for GMAT and the importance schools place on it...I feel your pain. Has there been a bit of an arms race in terms of median scores? Sure. But it really is the only apples-to-apples comp schools have and it does have some predictive power. Not to mention it clearly affects rankings. Keep in mind, rankings are conducted by a third party. So it isn't as if the schools themselves decided the GMAT was super important. There are a lot of forces at play here. ANd if you look at it from the rankings perspective, it's a pretty reliable comparative. I know it can be frustrating but keep the bigger picture in mind and give this next go your best shot.

Good luck mate!

Bhavik

VeritasPrepMike · Answer

Honestly, every school has their priorities. And every employee might have different priorities. You have to be willing to accept whatever those priorities are, especially since you are the one looking for admission to their school. If they say they would like to see a better GMAT, and you really want to go there, you might want to retake the GMAT. Of course, you are free to go somewhere else too. It's hard to hear and it might not make much sense, but you'll have to deal with it or move to a different option.

Some schools are just not honest

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