Anyone ever feel like they are looked at as crazy at work?

Question

I work for a great company but in a division where most of the people I work with are far less educated than I am and for whom even a 600 on the GMAT would be an impossiblity. Schools of the caliber that I am applying to are way far out of their reach... Sometimes I think they look at me like I am crazy and I am never going to get into even my very safe schools... Anyone in a similar situation or feeling this way?

rhyme · Answer

Yes. All the time. I was sitting with another person and mentioned HBS and she mentioned pursuing her MBA too.... but at the university of maryland. I manage a handful of people, one of which is in his 50's (now thats akward) and most of the people I work with, frankly, I'd consider mediocre at best. There are exceptions of course, but it's still interesting.

Mark, your comment raises an interesting issue though - and one thats been in the back of my mind for a bit .After you and swgotz dinged @ cornell, I started wondering what might have done you guys in. Having seen your essays, I don't think that was it, I think it might be how you portray your role because, prima facie, I can see how it might be construed as a relatively junior role. 

In other words - if your position is one of, historically, not particularly stellar performers, might one of the adcom concerns be that your position lacks leadership or signficant analytics? 

Just a thought.

Mark4124 · Answer

That is certainly possible... But how do I make up for that perception Ryme... I am pursuing an MBA in part because I wish to make a break out of that type of role which I haven't been succesful in doing thus far because of my liberal arts background. Is it possible that you are correct.. certainly... but tell me how it isn't going to be a nail in my coffin everywhere.

lepium · Answer

I agree with what's been written, BUT: 

I know a few people which are currently spending their time at Stanford, Columbia, Wharton, etc. whose experiences were not particularly impressive from the Organization / position point of view. But they managed to "package" themselves in the right way. Some concepts to consider: 

1) Even if your position is Jr Assistant of Jr. part time Intern, you can show your great potential by getting your company or recommenders to write about the great plans they have in mind for you. They can say they would be willing to finance your MBA (even when in the end they may not) and that would be an indication of trust. Same applies if you are VP Operations at Crazy Larry's Car wash. Make recommenders write how you'd be the first person in the firm to go for an MBA.

2) Extra-curriculars are important, too. Don't focus on being a member of 212 different charities. Focus on creating one or influencing one particular one. Or mentor a disadvantaged individual, etc.

3) Differentiate yourself. OK, so you've got the same generic experience as other 500 applicants. Here's where some help (i.e.: someone helping you to cherry pick from within your background) may come in handy. You may think that making state on your high school wrestling team is irrelevant, yet it can make a difference!

4) (I know this does not particularly apply to you guys as I've read you've been paying lots of attention to your essays): don't put too much trust on your GMAT scores. It's been said once and again how guys with 750+ get dinged all over the place. GMAT is the part of the application process where you know which schools you can realistically apply to. And nothing more. Specially at Elite+ schools, where they can choose from hordes of 700+ applicants, the rest of the application is what matters most.

5) Timing. Don't apply with 12 months work experience unless you're a superhero. Hold to your 750+ GMAT for a couple of years and grow steadily. Your chances will improve dramatically.

And in the end, the admissions process is holistic. In some schools it's more erratic than others (I don't know about Cornell) so don't be discouraged for dinging in one. That's not a pattern. Dinging in all 4, 6 or 8 you applied to is a pattern.

Hope it helps. L.

NB: my posts are biased opinions based on what I've heard, read or made up, nothing more.

Mark4124 · Answer

Defiantely... I would say as well that Cornell's essays did not allow me to make myself unique. Cornell doesn't ask about your unique profile or how you have faced adversity or what have you. They ask 2 rather generic essays that don't really do much to help differentiate yourself. I wrote about some good leadership experiences, and certainly they must have at least somewhat liked what I did with them combined with my overall profile as they interviewed me, but all the same they types of questions don't do much to help you stand out from the crowd. Any thoughts Ryme... as after all you made the intial comment.

Mark4124 · Answer

I have also rearranged my recs... adding some big people within the company to try to increase the preception of the type of people standing behind me.

rhyme · Answer

Sure, drop me a pm. I'm heading out the moment but I can try and help here. Mind you, I might be wrong anyway.

Lich · Answer

Not to spoil the mood here but ANYONE can apply to H/S/W, even if someone is a sales clerk with a 500 GMAT score. This whole notion that "I am superior" because I am applying to these top b-schools is absurd. The sad thing is A LOT of us here are just "dead meat" without a realistic shot of getting in. Unfortunately, most of us are too blind to realize this.
Start gloating AFTER you get in.

Note: this is coming from a "dead meat" applicant himself. Got a DWI from Wharton.

Mark4124 · Answer

That was not what I was saying at all Lich. I don't think I am "better than anyone" but I do feel that I have a realistic chance at an upper-level business school given my prior education and GMATs whereas many I work with might not have that opportunity.

swgotz · Answer

Hey Mark, I think there is a fine line between confidence and sounding condescending. Considering your strong profile on paper, Iâ€™d suggest you really think about the persona you project during interviews.

pelihu · Answer

I work at home. By myself. I hate it when people look at me funny.

Mark4124 · Answer

swgotz... prehaps you are right... this has been a problem for me in the past... @ future interviews I am going to do my best to make it seem like I would be profoundly lucky if they would let me into their school.

rhyme · Answer

Balance my friend, balance.

Confident but not arrogant.
Intelligent but not condescending.

dukes · Answer

nm

GMATT73 · Answer

My situation is a bit different. For about six months people were putting post-its on my desk with comments like "give it up already" or "you don't need an MBA to do ..." or even better, "try working harder instead, you will be much happier..."

Then I finally finished the GMAT, not aced, just finished it, mentioned only to my supervisor that I was done and would be needing a LOR by mid December for a select handful of schools, and then proceeded to move into the essay portion of the application.

That's when the mood in the office really changed. The post-its have been replaced by an ambience of dead silence.

Mark4124 · Answer

Yeah... Thats hard... Most of my recommenders are very understanding. One did his MBA at a very poor school, and he has said to me he regrets that decision but at the same time he has moved beyond his current role to a rather cool one with the company. So he doesn't really feel insecure but at the same time understands how important it is to pick a great place. My other former manager got his position in part because we worked together to transform our team so he wants to give something back to me. My others are insanely important people who want to help but are also super busy which makes it hard. But I'm not even refering to my recommenders... Just people like my current manager who talks to me about all this stuff and I can just tell walks off shaking her head in her mind thinking "he is never going to get into any of these schools." It makes me upset sometimes.

Lich · Answer

Mark, again no offense but it's not a good sign that your supervisor doesn't think that you can get in these top b-schools. This is usually an indication that they are not terribly impressed with your abilities. I know you might be pissed at them, but ask yourself how have you distinguished yourself at work?

rhyme · Answer

I dont know why, but I love this story. It's like all of sudden everyone realizes you really are going to tell them to !@(!(@# off.

Mark4124 · Answer

It has nothing to do with that whatsoever Lich, it has everything to do with the fact that no one in my position ever goes to such schools as they do not have the prior education necessary to be competitive.

rhyme · Answer

Theres an alternate explanation - people at my office sometimes look at me like I'm nuts "Cornell? Isn't that an ivy league?" and seem to be shocked at the concept that I might be qualified to go so a lot of them, I think they think, though, privately that I couldn't get in.... but I dont think this was ever a function of my abilities but rather a function of the lack of their ability. 

Some of the people I work with go to schools you've never heard of - in fact, you wont even find them using BW search functionality. To a lot of these people, "Cornell" or "Chicago" seem like foreign planets, reserved for some kind of different species of people. And it comes as no suprise then when you realize these people are in their mid 40's and they are at my level, or lower in the company - these are not leaders, these are followers, and theyve made their way to where they are today not through powerful ideas and aggressive self improvement, but rather just by chipping away at the 3% annual raises and every now and then making a move when someone quits. 

These are not people who "dont think I have what it takes", these are just people who dont have any idea what it takes.

Anyone ever feel like they are looked at as crazy at work?

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