Visiting Chicago and Kellogg next week - advice

Question

Hey everyone,

I am going to visiting Chicago GSB and Kellogg next week. Kellogg on Thursday, May 22nd and Chicago GSB on Friday, May 23rd. Does anyone have any advice for things to do during a visit? Can anyone recommend good classes to sit in on at GSB or K?

My career goals are a bit undefined as of yet, but I have narrowed it down to 3 fields: private equity, venture capital, or investment banking.

I grew up in the Chicago area, so I'm not really looking for any Chicago-related activities, but more specific things I should do/see on campus and around Evanston or Hyde Park, as I'm not very familiar with either neighborhood.

Thanks in advance!

MGOBLUE2 · Answer

Terp -- During your visit to K, the Admissions Office will give you a list of classes to sit in on. The courses they recommend might be in bold or starred and are often 'core' classes. If there is another class you want to sit in on, go for it, especially if it is an advanced finance course considering your career goals.

rhyme · Answer

Terp, sent you my phone number. Drop me a line when you get to town.

agold · Answer

Thank you guys - I really appreciate it.

JohnLewis1980 · Answer

terp26,

could you please share your feelings of these two schools with us after the visits?

I would really appreciate that.

Regards

sam77sam7 · Answer

Terp,

I sat in on a VC class at GSB, it was really good. The class was profiling different entrepreneurs through student presentations, and how these businessman/women got their start. Not a typical class for this professor he said, but it was still a really good experience.

The building is beautiful. Enjoy your experience. I hope you can post a little bit about both K and GSB when you return!

~Sam

mbagal1 · Answer

I sat on the Building New Venture class at the GSB recently . It was pretty interesting and fun. rhyme was a wonderful host and took the time to show me around the Harper center, even though I gave him so little notice. Though Hyde park itself was pretty blah and did not look like much, the Harper center looked great. I loved the fact that it is self contained and all classes are held in the same building, so no running to different buildings between classes.
Edit: On this class also, we had a panel of entrepreneurs talk about their experiences and take questions from the students.

I haven't been to Kellogg's yet.

agold · Answer

Okay ladies and gentlemen, you requested it so here goes. I visited Kellogg today and below is my impressions:

Pros:
1) Northwestern's campus is gorgeous - quite likely one of my favorite college campuses in the United States. It is so picturesque - the lake and all of the mature landscaping set the backdrop for a great couple of years.
2) The sense of community here is very strong, and the students are friendly, helpful, and intelligent. I know that I would fit in very well here from my interactions with other students today.
3) Obviously, they are a top school for consulting and marketing, but they are certainly making great strides in Banking and Private Equity as well.
4) You get the best of both worlds - you have the strong sense of community that you would typically find at more remote schools, but you can hop on the train and escape to Downtown Chicago within a half hour.
5) Chicago is a world-class city and has all of the amenities of one.

Cons:
1) The facility is AWFUL. I literally had to spend 15 minutes trying to walk around the building today to find a toilet stall that was unused. Half of them were broken and there were very few bathrooms in general in the building. The paper towel machines were all out of paper towels so I couldn't dry my hands. This is NOT what I expected from an elite M7 private school. Not to mention, the basic downsides - the facility is very very old and certainly looks that way and smells that way. UCLA's facility is a world apart from this - and UCLA is a public school with a significantly lower price tag.
2) Okay guys, I can forgive #1 and my 5 pros certainly outweigh con #1. However, the following is something that I cannot forgive, at all. From my interactions with the admissions staff, professors, as well as students - it is damn near impossible to get into Kellogg with 3 years of experience. Unless you worked at Goldman or McKinsey for 2 years and then spent your 3rd year saving starving children in Africa - forget about it. Kellogg's employment reports prove this - over the past several years, 2% of their class was under 27 years old at graduation and 98% were 27 years or older. Kellogg strictly goes by the philosophy that more experience is better, and they feel that employers appreciate students with more experience rather than less. The admissions department pretty much told me in so many words that I won't get in unless I wait a year or two. This was really sad - because age is only a number and I thought that I would fit in great at this school.

I will not be applying to Kellogg.

dabots · Answer

terp, interesting about the age thing for kellogg. i know 05 college grades that got into kellogg from less prestigious work than McKinsey/Goldman. one does economic consulting and chose GSB over Kellogg (sorry river). i believe Steel on this site is also an 05 grad. Funny though that forcefeed, another 05'er did not get into Kellogg but got into HBS.

89nk · Answer

Terp06 that is great insight into NW about the age limitation, and wow 2% is really low acceptance. I didn't know it was that low.

Good luck on the rest of your visits, and application cycle.

agold · Answer

From my interactions with Kellogg students, forcefeed's example is not an outlier by any means. There are several young people who get rejected by Kellogg every year and get into HBS/Stanford. I am surprised to see that you know a few of the small pool of young applicants that the school lets in - I also wonder if they may be raising the # from 2% up to 5 or 7%? The admissions office seemed to state that they are staying put and not changing anything.

riverripper · Answer

I know several 05/06 grads heading to Kellogg next fall and definitely didnt have Mck/GS work experience and they are normal white boys so its not like they are diversity admits. Remember during this process its a pretty random selection at times. Forcefeed got WL and eventually got dinged but remember he most likely did zero work to get off since he had an HBS admit. Dont let anything intimidate you from applying to your ideal schools because you cant get in if you dont attempt it. Its nice for older folks thought that Kellogg isnt all over the under 26 thing like HBS and some other schools. Wharton and Kellogg are two schools known for valuing work experiences.

rhyme · Answer

terp, on the off chance you see this, ill be on campus around noon if you want to grab lunch. I'll pm you my ph #

happybunny · Answer

I loved Kellogg. I didn't experience the Age drama you have experienced. I'm a 05' grad. They never mentioned about age or lack or experience. Maybe because I'm girl?

agold · Answer

Rhyme - sorry we couldn't meet up today.

Chicago GSB had a full day of organized events for me and I barely got a minute to breathe until the late afternoon. All I can say is: WOW. It's the first thing that you are going to think as soon as you walk into the Harper Center - WOW.

Not only was the facility amazing, but the quality of faculty at Chicago GSB is top notch. I sat in on New Venture Strategy this morning with Professor Schrager. It was a very interactive class, and Professor Schrager was an ideal professor in my opinion. He always asked the students insightful questions and made them justify their views. The slogan "Question Everything" finally came to life for me today. Also, the job placements that a lot of the students at GSB were talking about just blew me away - especially in Finance. Yes - there are a lot of students at the GSB that want to go into Finance, but the banks also allot a ton of spaces for them and I think they're able to accomodate just about anyone who has a genuine interest in investment banking or sales & trading. The GSB certainly had some younger students and they seemed to be holding up just fine through the recruiting process (I met a couple that only had 2 years of experience post-UG).

The admissions office, student tour guides, the facility, and everything else reaked of one word: professionalism. The students at GSB take a lot of pride in their school and it certainly shows through. I really can't think of a school that would provide me with a better education and a better skillset to enter private equity or investment banking with.

Now come the downsides. The school definitely has a commuter feel to it. Students at Kellogg told me that they spend the whole day on campus, every day, from 8AM-10PM or so and do a lot of group projects and what not. Most students at GSB seemed to only come to campus 3-4 days out of the week and they may get out of there by 5 or 6 PM if they have no extracurricular activities going on. I saw this as a result of the environments. Evanston is a lilywhite, safe, North Shore neighborhood and Hyde Park is quite the opposite of that. I don't think I would personally want to stick around in HP late at night.

Overall, the Pros definitely outweigh the Cons here. Although it may have a "commuter school" feeling, the city of Chicago is fantastic and GSBers seem to organize lots of social events (informally and formally) on the North Side and throughout the city pretty frequently. The school has a very independent feeling to it. If you are a person that expects everything to be handed to you - it doesn't seem like you'd get that here. You have to work at it and get involved. The flexible curriculum also accentuates this point - you have to decide what you want to do independently and take the courses you need to take - no one is going to hold your hand. The academic courseload seems rigorous and this was the first school where I got a good feeling that this education would provide me a genuine developmental experience and allow me to grow as a person and leader.

Count me in for R1 at Chicago GSB

agold · Answer

The admissions office told me explicitly "We take very few students with 3 years of experience, and they tend to be very exceptional candidates with exceptional circumstances for why they would like to get an MBA now". I'm really not sure how you define exceptional - but they certainly seemed like they were trying to discourage me from applying.

With Kellogg's strong reputation in Marketing and GM, I can see their point. Employers that hire for Marketing and GM programs would most likely prefer to hire the more experienced folks. Investment banks love the young guys with 2-3 years of experience, but Kellogg isn't a typical Finance school and they don't seem as concerned with their Finance reputation as they are with their Marketing and GM rep. There seemed to be quite a few people in the Finance department that were disappointed by this.

riverripper · Answer

I dont think they are discouraging you since they dont know what your application will be like...they probably are warning you and hope you are realistic. I think at any M7 to get in with 2/3 years experience you are going to need to be exceptional and your why now is going to have to be convincing. Then again that can be said for all applicants since 80%+ will be getting dinged these days at these schools. Just because HBS is admitting more young folks these days dont assume these people arent absolutely amazing, in the past they may have valued those same people with another 2 years of experience under their belt but now they are taking them earlier. Its probably the same type of folks just getting in sooner than before.

If you think you have what it takes to get into any other Top school like GSB, MIT, Columbia, Haas, Tuck, etc...then you have what it takes at Kellogg and Wharton (older applicant friendly schools supposedly) and your age wont be an issue. I would say for people 27+ to go for HBS if their hearts into it even if their chances are lower due to age...you dont know how they will view your profile until you get in. I know some of the people who got into Kellogg on here this year are pretty young so it is possible, just like some folks heading to other "younger" schools are my age or older.

agold · Answer

I agree with you. If it were near the top of my list, I would still put in the application even though the chances are slim. However, my visit to GSB has really changed my perspective on things and I think that I would be best suited to focus on the traditional finance schools. This is where I feel my fit will be strongest and they will probably be the best for my career. I may go ahead and put in an app for Wharton, even though my chances there are far slimmer than Kellogg. I feel that I'd probably have more fun at Kellogg, Duke, or UCLA but I would develop myself and further my career more at a school like GSB or Wharton.

JohnLewis1980 · Answer

terp06,

I find your posts very useful. Thanks so much for your impressions.

+1 kudos for you

Regards

dghazer · Answer

This thread inspired me to visit both schools last week since I would be in the area. I had not really considered either but thought I could atleast have something to compare my other visits to.

I began writing a description/comparison of my visits, but I realized that I was simply echoing what terp06 wrote (minus the age stuff). My experience was nearly identical. I was not that impressed with Kellogg, but I think that I have stumbled upon my dream school GSB.

I sat in on a foreign investment class focusing on SE Asia (I forget the actual name of the course) with Brian Barry. This was by far the most interesting course I have sat in on and Dr. Barry is an amazing professor from what I saw.

Every school I have visited so far has seemed impressive, but nothing has blown me away. GSB absolutely blew me away. I left the visit thinkin that THIS is what business school should be. I then spent my 3 hour drive back to Michigan trying to figure out how I was going to get in.

Visiting Chicago and Kellogg next week - advice

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