Vlerick MBA R2 vs Mannheim MBA R2 vs ESADE MBA R3

Question

Hey Guys

Please help me in making a choice from following options:

1) Vlerick MBA R2 (Belgium) 
2) Mannheim MBA R2 (Germany)
3) ESADE MBA R3 (Spain)

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 My Profile :

Education : Bechlor of Technology - IIT Bombay 
Course title : Chemical Engineer
Grade/Result : 8.01 out of 10

GMAT
Total score: 660
Verbal score : 29
Quantitative score: 50
Analytical writing score: 5.5

TOEFL
Result : 107 out of 120

My work experience
*Number of years relevant work experience: 2 Years 9 Months (as on Jan,10)
Nationality: Indian
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What do you people think about the schools and what are my chances of making into them?

Thanks 
Ankit

blinknow · Answer

Hi Ankit,

Esade has already filled up their Indian quota, you can check facebook for 2012 esade mba .

I am of similar profile and got rejected from Esade. They will encourage you to apply, so that they get the money and 
then ding you saying that you belong to a pool of competitive group(it, male,indian).
I dont know about the other schools in your list.
All the best.

ankitdixit · Answer

Hey dude Thanks for the information. I was about to apply in ESADE

....one correction I am from manufacturing background...will dat change nething? Thanks Ankit

blinknow · Answer

Hi Ankit,

I don’t think it would change much. Every school has a quota for Asians. 
Last week I met with IE and they said their Asian quota is 10%.

Because of this all Indians try to get in as early as possible. You are late now even if you had any chance.
I have observed during my times with many applications that in Indian candidate they look for higher GMAT than 
their average to balance the other candidates.

To get an interview call try best to be close to the average GMAT, average work experience, age etc.
Also it is a good idea to interact with the alum or current student of similar background before you apply.
You can get this by emailing the admission officer of that region. Just look on the schools website for the contact person.

Many of the schools( Cranfield, HEC) have preliminary profile evaluation forms online through which you can check your suitability. Apart from that I have seen that in other schools you can always send your CV and GMAT score and get a informal assessment.

It is also a good idea to attend information sessions of the schools you are interested. Generally people apply to 4-5 schools as some may reject using application, some during interview etc.

All the Best.

msunny · Answer

Hi Ankit,

I would advise against applying to European Schools except INSEAD and all the UK based schools(LBS,Oxford, Carnfield, Cambridge etc).

Reasons:
 - Language is a very big issue with placements. Schools are more regional in focus.
 - Work permit might be a issue if you want to work in US/UK after graduating from Europe.
 - I feel the return on investment is low.

ankitdixit · Answer

Hey Guys

Thanks for your very interesting and informative post.

What do you guys think of Asian MBAs like NUS, HKU.

Thanks
Ankit

vgeri · Answer

Ankit,

I would advise that if you feel passionate about going to a top programme in Europe, you apply at Esade. It is easily the most reputable school on your shortlist.

Yes it might be tricky to get in coming from a large pool, but by no means impossible. To state that they have 'filled up their Indian quota' in nonsense - perhaps blinknow got rejected because the rest of his application wasn't outstanding, not because he is from India. To tell others they have no chance seems a bit like a case of sour grapes. Your application will be judged on many elements - your career progression, the quality of your essays, your post-mba aspirations, and if you get invited, your interview. Based on blinknow's comments you might as well give up doing an mba altogether!?

In the greater scheme of things, the application fee is negligible - it is certainly not a major revenue stream for business schools, more a way to filter out non-committed applicants. If you are interested in the school, apply.

blinknow · Answer

Hi Ankit,

According to me we can use this forum as a platform to share our experiences which will be 
Useful for other candidates. I have also noticed that you have an unbalanced score. You are high in Quant and low in verbal.
The top 20 schools will have serious doubt on your application. Many schools mention it on their website. It is a good idea to discuss with admission committee even before you consider application to that school.

Vgeri: I appreciate your other forum contribution , but to judge others does not show any kind professionalism.
There is always a chance in any school, even at Harvard the GMAT range may start at 550. Question is it worth applying?

My advice to you was to make a right strategy before making decision to apply to any school. You may be aware that
There are different intakes in different school. You can maximize you chances by applying early and applying in school where you have high chances. A good way is to visit the school and meet up with senior students (of similar background) and check their profile. There is no "Equal Opportunity" concept in these schools so they can have their quota for different region.

You can find all the B schools boasting about themselves, I will talk about some shortcomings of ESADE as this is the one in
Question.
- Overpriced MBA. Even if you opt for 1 year option you have to pay the full price. Do remember that when you are working as intern for 3 months you are away from school. ESADE is not a popular brand even in Europe ( except of Spain ofcourse) to charge so exorbitant.
 
- Application process is pathetic: 
 - the online form does not allow you to upload your transcripts, degree certificate. You have to post it.( are we in stone age)
 - Your reference letter has to be handwritten and there is not enough space to write in it ( that's ice age stuff)
 - let us move on, you can move from one section in application to another unless you have filled all mandatory fields, that’s so outdated, wake up...
 - If they find a strong candidate (I mean high GMAT, from business background etc) they will act on your application quickly and give you an offer. You have to pay 8000 Euro to accept the offer in 3 weeks. This is a way to trap high calibre students. You can see of many examples of people who got quick accept from ESADE and had to pay fees before hearing from LBS. Some lost 8000 Euro when they decided choose LBS instead. 8000 Euro is too much , we are students not bank...

I can go on and on... I will keep the rest for later;)

1 last thing, reapplication does not go well with any school, so better have a right strategy and good application to avoid any disappointment.

Cheers,

vgeri · Answer

blinknow - great post! kudos.

the points you brought up here are very good - both in terms of the imbalanced gmat score that might be an obstacle for Ankit, and the negative points regarding the application process. I also thought those things were quite annoying (I heard you will be able to upload references online from next year though). Sorry if I sounded harsh in the previous post, but I just thought we shouldn't discourage people from applying based on their nationality. You have the option to get a better GMAT score, improve your essays, get a promotion or more experience and apply next year, etc, but you cannot change your nationality, so I didn't think that was constructive feedback. From what I saw on Ankit's profile it might be tricky but I still think he has a realistic chance if he is very passionate about the school. If not, that is another story altogether of course. So I think the key is to concentrate on strengths and weaknesses in his profile, and on strengths and weaknesses of the school in question - exactly as you have done in your most recent post!

anyways, good luck to both of you with decisions and applications!!

ankitdixit · Answer

Hey Guys

Thanks for the constructive discussion.

I have done searched about ESADE and found that ESADE admits 45% students applying students with 14-17% students from Asia(Maybe 8-9% from India). Also it Financial Adi Provided in ESADE is to 85% of its students and I am definitely banking on it. (Reference: GMAT CLUB International School Rankings )

I have also emailed ESADE reps regarding my chances of getting into ESADE, I got the following response:

"As the time goes by, students are getting accepted and enrolled in our program. That means that later you do the applications, fewer places are available. However, there are still places available and there will be until the last stage."

I have to agree with vgeri that application fee is not a major revenue stream for business schools.

Guess only harm in applying is stamp of reapplication.

blinknow · Answer

Being Indian does not mean you wont get into good schools, just that you have to compete harder that other.
Applying early is one strategy that people apply to increase their chances.

I missed one more point in my earlier mail about ESADE. Spanish is compulsory, What??? I am not paying to learn language , teach me some business skills please. In that context IE is better, there teach Spanish but not compulsory, let the ones who join choose what they want.

Too much of criticism... this does not in no way show that ESADE is a bad school to be in. Consistently being in top 19 in FT ranking does take some effort. Spanish schools also has good tie up with banks to provide Loans without hassle. The Admission officers are friendly and they do respond. Also heard that they are investing this year on IT infrastructure to make it better. ( It used to take lot of time to open their website ).Also Heard good things about ESADE's Entrepreneurship program.

Ankit, keep us posted on your progress.
Vgeri, I wish I had your score

marygranger · Answer

Dear All,

First of all, warm regards from Barcelona. I would like to address some of the misconceptions I have seen posted on this forum, to give all candidates the opportunity to participate in as transparant a process as possible.

I am Mary Granger, Associate Director of Admissions and Career Services, APAC Region, for ESADE Business School. In this capacity, I am responsible for recruitment of candidates working/living in the APAC Region prior to application, as well as Corporate Relations with companies in the region. As such I have perhaps more "insider" information than some of the candidates...

I already wrote quite a long response, but given my technological inept self, have managed to erase it before posting, and therefore I will be briefer than I was the first time!

The first thing I would like to clear up is that ESADE has NOT reached its quota of Indian candidates (or any other nationality or region) - because we do not have quotas for ANY nationality. In fact, we gave an admission just today to an Indian candidate, and I had an Entrance Interview for an Indian candidate this afternoon (and have several others scheduled) - and I certainly don't have time to conduct useless interviews. If we shortlist you for an interview, it is because we still intend to admit more students...

Having said that, we do try to preserve the diversity which is a priority for our students, and this is based on three criteria:
- cultural background
- educational background
- professional background
Obviously, the closer to the end of the process, the more likely we are to start seeing larger numbers of similar profiles, which would lead to more competition for the remaining places.

To address some of the issues raised in the posts - at the present time I only have 7 Indians who have confirmed their place (we are graduating 18 this week, to put things in perspective). The average GMAT of the students who have accepted our offer is a whopping 654, to put paid to the idea that we only look for high GMATs to hurry up and make offers. This is below our overall average for Indian applicants, as well as below our average for all enrolled students...

We are very quick in our process, as from the feedback from candidates this is something they value. We have Admissions Committee every week, so if we get your application at the right time, you might hear from us within 1-2 days of applying. Of course, you are always free to delay the interview if the timing isn't convenient for you!! But just remember - one thing we ARE looking for is for our students to have a commitment to ESADE - we are looking for students who WANT to come to ESADE, who are PASSIONATE about the program - not just using us as a backup. That's why we have such a high reserve fee - partially because we want to see your passion for ESADE, and partially because any last-minute reject of a confirmed place throws us into a tizzy, having such a small cohort. We try to select each participant based on the overall picture - so trying to come up with an adequate "substitute" for someone who backs out is very complicated!!

Re: Spanish language classes - they are only required for 3 months (and I feel this is not enough, given that candidates/students frequently target positions in Spain, where the Spanish language is pretty much essential). I find it interesting that someone would point this out as a negative, as in Spain there is a saying that "knowledge doesn't occupy room in your brain" and it could be a competitive advantage when looking for a job post-MBA...

Re: application form - given the proliferation of falsified documents, yes, we do require original transcripts. Electronic copies are even easier to falsify and thus to ensure the integrity of the process, we do want to assure that our students are holders of the appropriate degrees. However, the recommendation letters can be sent electronically, and it was NEVER required for them to be filled out by hand. Regarding lack of space - a Word version of the recommendation letter has been available for years, and we also accept freeform recommendation letters if they contain the same information we are requesting from the standard format. Finally, the reason for requiring candidates to complete all the sections before moving on is simple - when we didn't require this, many candidates left information blank - thus delaying their process needlessly!

Ah - finally - the price issue. Since the number of credits/class hours is exactly the same for the 12- 15- or 18-month options - and the final degree is the same - the price is uniform. We are competitively priced in our region, and over 30% less than our closest competition here in Barcelona...

I hope all of this information is of use, and encourage you to contact me for any additional information.

Best regards,

Mary Granger
Associate Director
Admissions & Career Services, APAC Region
ESADE Business School
[email protected]

samd832000 · Answer

Hi Mary,

Wow!! That was descriptive and to the point at the same time!!!

One question though, you've mentioned recommendations can be sent electronically. But to whose Email Id should they be sent? And, would adding the application Id in the subject of that mail( with attached recommendations ) be sufficient, if the mail comes directly from our referees to ESADE?

TIA

Sameer

marygranger · Answer

Sameer, the recommender him/herself should address the letters to: mba@esade.edu, and in fact, indicating your name in the subject line would be extremely helpful. Mary

samd832000 · Answer

Thanks a lot Mary, you've been a savior.
You'll soon see my application on your desk, and ESADE is the perfect fit for me. But let's see if I am a good fit for ESADE.

Thanks once again

Sameer Duggal

marygranger · Answer

Looking forward to receiving it, Sameer...

Warm regards,
Mary

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