Profile evaluation

Question

Hello,

I'm hoping to get a profile evaluation. Here are my stats:

Age: 27
Ethnicity: Caucasian
Work Experience: 5 years working as a writers' assistant on scripted television programs in Los Angeles ("Will & Grace," "The Starter Wife," "What I Like About You," among others)
GMAT: 690 (41 V, 44Q)
GPA: 3.96 (Syracuse University)
Awards: Class Marshal (top of the class) @ Syracuse University; Finalist for Ball State Enterprise Creation Competition; Commencement Speaker @ Syracuse University graduation
ECs: Founded fraternity on Syracuse University campus, Business plan competitions, writing television scripts, manager and player on LA-based amateur baseball team, member of Syracuse Univ Alumni club where I help recent grads find jobs in television.

Negatives: Little professional managerial experience (scripted TV isn't structured in a manner where assistants would have subordinates); non-traditional background, which may be hard for adcoms to relate to; low gmat score

Schools applying to:

HBS, UCLA, USC, TEXAS, DUKE, UNC

Anonymous · Answer

I think your profile is unique and you should have a good chance at those schools, obviously with HBS being a stretch and UCLA (because of your location and GMAT but doable) - It all comes down to your post-MBA goals and how you articulate them in your essays. Do you plan to return to the entertainment industry?

agold · Answer

If you were able to re-take the GMAT and get at least a 720 or 730, I think you would be competitive at Wharton, Chicago, Kellogg, Columbia, or Tuck. I'm not sure if you have much of a desire to attend these schools.

You may be competitive at HBS based on the non-traditional background itself.

You may be competitive at HBS based on the non-traditional background itself.

Stockmoose16 · Answer

Yes, I do plan to return to entertainment, but I want to start my own production company, rather than work on specific shows. What's wrong with my GMAT, though? I'm in the middle 80%, and a 690 is statistically the same thing as a 720. That means I'm well within the average for both UCLA and HBS, right?

Stockmoose16 · Answer

I doubt that scoring a 720 would make much of a difference, since a 690 is statistically the same thing as a 720. I really don't have time to take the gmat again before the rd 2 deadline, anyway. I would think that my non-traditional background, combined with my UG gpa would more than make up for a slightly below-par gmat.

Anonymous · Answer

Yep you are in the middle 80%, and there is nothing wrong with your GMAT - it's a great score, just that many applicants who apply to UCLA are 700+. Just another factor to think about, it's 'nice' to have your GMAT above the school's average but obviously not necessary - if you're above the average you don't have to worry about that being a potential hinderance to your application in case there are X other applicants that are just like you. Harvard is a crapshot. I don't care what your GMAT score is

LOL. And your age is outside of the main range they are looking for this year, which seems to be around 24-25 - they are trending much younger.

fluidian · Answer

Why does every one say that 690 is the same as a 720? There's about a 5% difference between the two scores, which, given the massive number of people that take the test, is quite significant. I'm not saying that your score isn't ok, but you'd be better off with the 720, even if they are "statistically the same". The schools GMAT scores will likely increase this year, and 690 is probably going to be on the lower end of the 80% window, meaning that the rest of your app will just have to be that much better.

It's just the way it is. You have a chance given the rest of your profile, but the GMAT will be a slight negative...just trying to keep things real as opposed to perpetuating this unreasonable comments.

It's just the way it is. You have a chance given the rest of your profile, but the GMAT will be a slight negative...just trying to keep things real as opposed to perpetuating this unreasonable comments.

Stockmoose16 · Answer

People perpetuate that rumor because it's true. Someone who scores a 690 on the gmat just as easily could have scored a 720 upon a re-take. Sure, a higher score will never hurt you, but adcoms know that a 690 and 720 are the same thing. Once you fall within their gmat checkpoint, they're going to look at other factors. And let's face it, if I came from finance, banking, engineering, or IT, my GMAT score could certainly be seen as a sticking point. But I come from scripted network television, an industry that has little or no representation in B-schools. I probably wouldve re-taken the gmat if I had come from one of the more traditional work backgrounds, but it really doesn't make sense for me to re-take, because the gmat likely won't be the reason I get dinged.

agold · Answer

Don't get me wrong, you are going to be absolutely fine with your 690 at the following schools:

USC, Texas, UNC

However, your 44Q is a 70th percentile Quant Score. In order to be competitive at a Top 15 program (such as Duke, UCLA, HBS that are on your list, or the other programs I mentioned), you will need to have at least an 80th percentile Quant score. This is especially necessary because you come from a very non-traditional, non-quantitatively oriented background. You still may have a shot at these schools, don't get me wrong, but the quant score will definitely raise a red flag and this is a very, very competitive year for admissions. Did you take Calculus, Statistics, Accounting, or similar courses in College? If so, make sure you highlight these in your optional essay. What was your college major?

The question you have to ask yourself is:

Would I rather go to USC, Texas, or UNC this year... or would I rather wait until next year, re-take the GMAT (hopefully scoring at least 730 or 740), and be competitive at most of the Top 15 programs?

If I was you personally, I would just re-take the GMAT and wait until next year (so you can be looking at a completely different league of schools). If it is imperative that you go this year, I would drop Duke and HBS and I would substitute Darden and Cornell if you are dead set on going this year.

Stockmoose16 · Answer

USC and Texas are definitely my backup schools. They would not be my top choices. UNC I would definitely consider.

I have to say, I strongly doubt that a 70th percentile quant score is going to kill my chances of getting into UCLA and HBS. I was the valedictorian of my undergraduate class, where I majored in both television, radio film and finance. I received straight A's in statistics, calculus, and all other math courses I took. Plus, you have to remember, these schools aren't just looking for number crunchers, they want people who can round out their class. Anyone from, say, an engineering background can score above an 80th percentile quant, but not everybody can give insight into the television industry. I'm not saying I'm going to get into UCLA and HBS, but I think I have at least a fair shot. I have no interest in re-taking the gmat, to be honest. I gave up four months of my life studying for that thing, and I really don't think an extra 30 points would be the difference in my admission to the aforementioned schools.

I think people have to remember, that the GMAT is only one factor that determines admission. Yes, this is a competitive year, but I obviously have a much higher GPA than 99% of applicants, and I also have an employment background that less than 1% of all b-school applicants come from. I encourage anyone who applies to b-school to find what makes them unique and sell that point in the essays. Anyone can score well on a test, but only a relative few can communicate their experiences in a compelling manner on paper.

agold · Answer

Okay, the fact that you have A's in Statistics, Calculus and other math courses certainly helps your case. Be sure to mention that in your optional essay.

Good luck with everything.

Stockmoose16 · Answer

Thanks. You too. I wish had room to mention it in my essays, but unfortunately, I've used the space in the optional essays to talk about my lack of managerial experience. I'm not sure where I can mention the math classes. Wouldn't they notice it on my transcript?

agold · Answer

Poor idea to mention the lack of managerial experience on your optional essay. 80% of applicants do not have formal managerial experience and this is completely acceptable as long as you demonstrate "leadership traits" and "informal leadership" either at work OR in your extra-curriculars.

solaris1 · Answer

I do not think there is an explicit need to explain your lack of formal managerial experience in your optional essay either.

If anything, that is probably something you should mention in your interviews as a motivation for pursuing an MBA. If you do not intend to retake the GMAT, talking about your grades in quantitative courses might be preferable to discussing the lack of hierarchical structure in your industry.

For what it's worth, IIRC each of the three applications I have completed so far has asked for the number of people I had supervised or managed professionally in the work history section, and I have duly reported "none" on each. I've at least been interviewed at all three schools, so I'm led to believe "managerial potential" is more important in the eyes of the admissions committee as opposed to "demonstrated managerial experience."

Paradosso · Answer

In my view, you have an excellent shot at HBS (a shot nonetheless, but an uncontested one) and UCLA should be doable. You may want to throw in Stanford and other M7 schools and I'm sure you'll get at the very least one admit (assuming you will write well seems a safe bet).

Definitely do not bother with the GMAT as your score and GPA are more than enough for you. I don't think that even a 750 would help your case but very slightly.

Agold, I am a consultant and I don't have an 80th percentile in quant! Yet I'm in at Kellogg MMM, where they specifically mention statistical proficiency as a prerequisite --I have a C+ in the only statistic class I took. You are right in underlining the fierce competition of this year, yet it's fiercer for the likes of you and me, not for Stockmoose --do we really think there will be a slew of television authors applying because of the credit crunch?

Again in my view, the general rule "the fiercer the competition, the less important the GMAT" applies: we are set to see a lot of 770 dings (all the schools will become more Stanford-like). Stockmoose has the privilege (and the merit, since it's harder landing a job in Hollywood than in McKinsey) of not having to fight in the GMAT arena and said advantage is going to carry a lot of weight these times.

Your chances at H/S are at least on par with the traditional IB/MC applicant with good XCs, but only if you convey a strong reason for your MBA. Don't waste space with your lack of subordinates or whatever, just throw every word at why MBA, since that is not trivial at all (if the adcoms deemed you unfit for the academic rigor of an MBA, you would be dinged no matter what you write, the Q44 is there: fortunately for you, that's not going to be the case).

Paradoxically your chances are not that much higher at second-tier, ranking-obsessed schools than at Stanford, so my advice would be to apply to M7s of your choice and UCLA for good measure.

That said, go ask to some real consultant on the relevant boards! :D

Stockmoose16 · Answer

Well, that was the point of the essay I wrote. I talked about my extensive leadership experiences, despite having very little managerial experience. I thought this would be more important than drawing attention to my quant score, which isn't terrible, but is under the average. I figure if they were worried about my quant, they'd look at my transcript and realize I had a heavy math-based curriculum that I aced.

Anonymous · Answer

Stockmoose- There is no need to retake your GMAT. Numbers are numbers, there's little variance, however, numbers are numbers - that's really what the end point was. However, the difference is not that much and your profile will be the reason why schools will want you. It sounds like you have the undergrad+gmat combo to be fine, and your experience will be a good diversity factor.

Have you thought about Kellogg? A friend of mine has a good friend at school with her there with a very similar background as yours

Stockmoose16 · Answer

Hmm, this is really interesting. The reason I decided to write my optional essay about managerial experience (or lack thereof) is because UNC specifically asks applicants to make a separate document, where you must outline the number of people you supervised at each and every job you've held. I used the optional essay to discuss my many different leadership qualities, from starting a fraternity at my undergrad institution, to managing a amateur baseball team in Los Angeles. Do you think writing about my history in math classes would be a better essay?

Anonymous · Answer

I don't think solaris meant for you to replace that essay with math-quantitative course explanations, but rather add that information to essays that highlight your undergraduate experience which pretty much every school asks.

Stockmoose16 · Answer

Great post. What does the "MMM" stand for in Kellogg? I wish I had given more consideration to the schools I selected before I applied. I would be perfectly happy going to HBS, UCLA, Duke, and UNC, but I'm not sure about USC and Texas. USC doesn't seem to recruit well outside of Los Angeles (where I live), and I was stunned to see that only about 70% of there MBA grads were employed at graduation last year (as compared to Harvard, where 100% were employed). At this point, I'm committed to applying to the above-mentioned schools. I've already spent a great deal of time and energy getting recommendations written on my behalf, and to start over would be difficult, given that it's 2 weeks before the deadline.

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