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gcb09173
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Joined: 23 Oct 2014
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Concentration: Finance, Strategy
Schools: LBS '17 (M$)
Schools: LBS '17 (M$)
Posts: 188
Kudos: 74
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Why I'm choosing LBS over HBS 03 Feb 2015, 03:33
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Hi All,

I was going to write a fill brief on the reasons why I've chosen LBS - but having had a couple of private messages on another GMAT forum and now on here it is growing tiresome to be have people think they can lecture someone they don't know on why I'm making the wrong decision (although there are many who understand and are positive about the same points) - I thought I would share the latest conversation on this forum. I possibly reacted a bit too strongly (I blame the multiple messages I have had from people and the end of a long week closing a deal), but overall this has reaffirmed my decision and my views of some of the characters of those seeking to go to HBS.

Mr Rankings below (Anon1111 - great trolling username) took it upon himself to question why I would choose LBS before trying to correct my personal views - heaven help someone who thinks for themselves other than what their network tells them. Advice for anyone messaging about these decisions in the future - be polite - don't start with a negative statement - and when you get an answer say that's great and appreciate the time to express their opinions - don't then start questioning their views. You will never get a complete context and understanding of a personal decision over an internet forum and your views mean very little to them.

I don't agree with any of his arguments, and I don't believe in the notion of 'if I go to the number 1 school employers will come to me and I will be successful' - I'm not sure he quite understood my points anyway and I don't want to descend into 'measuring the size of our GMATs'argument. I am secure in my decision that LBS is the right school, so if you're looking to 'correct' my decision, please don't bother messaging me in future.

anon1111
Hi there

If it's okay with you I wanted to ask you for your reasoning for choosing LBS over HBS? From what I've read so far no school comes even close to HBS and LBS is declining in rankings substantially. Was curios why someone would choose LBS over HBS.
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gcb09173
Where are you getting the fact LBS is declining in the rankings?

It's just made it to number 2 behind HBS in the FT latest rankings for 2015 so the information you're using may be out of date. (FT is in my view the best rankings for getting a truly global perspective comparing the RoW programs to the US).

Why choose LBS over HBS - well for a start I'm an international student so I'd rather study in a more multicultural school - and from what I saw and heard about HBS, it is very American focused - with most cases studies focused on the US - and majority of the class American.

Secondly LBS is in the major political and economical capital of the country - HBS is neither - there's significant networking opportunities by being in London other than what the school can arrange and alumni. Additionally I'm looking at moving to IB advisory or Strategy Consulting (given my specific background and experience both are potential options) and LBS places very well into both the finance and consulting arena's int he London offices - with the major firms from both on the front step of the school and most also corporate partners of the school.

I'm also very interested in working in the Middle East and potentially Far East in the future - and LBS's links to these regions are excellent.

Finally the school itself is brilliant - perched on the edge of a huge park, slap bang in the middle of London. All the current students were fabulous and interesting and I could see myself studying there. I didn't have the same feelings for HBS and it's students - and I felt there was a clear divide between many students and the 'Section X' elite.

LBS will definitely get me where I want to be, and having met some of my future classmates and seen profiles of all the other admits, I know I will have an excellent network upon exiting the program.

One final point (which wasn't part of my decision making between HBS or LBS) is that I have a right to work in the EU - so I looked primarily at programs in Europe. I was certain however that if I were to attend HBS (or another of the M7 schools), I would not have a problem finding a firm willing to sponsor my visa applications so this was not an issue in my decision but I do accept this may swing other peoples choice of school.

Ultimately if I were to undertake the application process again, I would apply to CBS and Stanford possibly instead of HBS.
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anon1111
Thank you for your quick response.

I do not consider Financial Times ranking to be very serious for multiple reasons. A quick take was here (https://poetsandquants.com/2015/01/25/ha ... t-ranking/) though this does not cover all the issues. There are serious issues with fluctuations (schools can move 30 places which does not happen in the real world), faculty evaluation, opportunities, etc.

I am also not from the US or interested in working in the US and I am aware of the US focused nature of the schools. Disclaimer: I do have an undergraduate degree from a top US university.

My assessment of LBS declining in ranking is based on 3 reasons:

1) Interaction with employers in Dubai, UK and some parts of Asia:
I have worked in 7 countries and from my experience the most desired applicants tend to be Harvard or MIT graduates. Stanford comes in a third close. The most sought after university from the UK is Cambridge. McKinsey and other companies have a very strong Harvard/Stanford bias and that is unlikely to go away. I have worked in different teams for McKinsey and have yet to come across an LBS grad (perhaps they don't disclose about their school as much as alumni of other schools do).

2) Reputation of the school:
LBS does not have the same reputation as the other schools. A quick response is here, Outside of London LBS is not that well respected.
(https://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/w ... on-ranking)

3) Long-Term Career:
Out of the CEOs of the Fortune 500 companies LBS has only 1. INSEAD has 9. Again you would say that this US biased but so is the world, unfortunately.
https://poetsandquants.com/2015/01/23/th ... mpanies/2/

Regarding somethings you mentioned:
1) Networking.
There is a serious difference between quality networking and just catching business cards. The best quality networking happens within sections and the lifelong friends you make in school. I think its best to get 100 friends in top places around the world than 1000 business cards of people you barely know. From my undergraduate experience 3 friends have succeeded in starting companies that are worth over a $100m and they will pretty much hire me whenever I want, simply because they are my friends. I don't think any of the networking events I have attended have had any real impact but these connections - well - are for life. There are pretty much a few people in every HBS class who will be really rich and powerful. Knowing them will exponentially increase your job successes later.
I have never heard of any HBS student complain that he did not get networking opportunities so don't know how much of a draw back being away from a financial capital is :)

2) HBS American focus:
This is something that does bother me. However HBS international students make about 30-40% so it shouldn't be much of an issue.

3) Classism:
Yes, the biggest turn-off but unless you're white (I am not so this is a factor for me too) LBS is no different.

Unless you're planning on sticking in London HBS is a much better bet.
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gcb09173
Lol - take it youre trying to troll me - I almost bit and started a long winded response but at end of the day bud I totally disagree with you.

You're in Group think. Start to think for yourself and what's best for you other than what everyone else believes is the 'best'.

Basically you've taken flawed logic and twisted 'evidence' to fit your view of the world which is in fact incorrect and not worth my time explaining as you seem incapable of understanding opposing views.

I've been lucky enough to be admitted to both - clearly you desire HBS as the be all and end all, but some advice - privately messaging someone to basically argue with them the rationale they've used to pick their school is wrong is pure arrogance - exactly the type I found with many people at HBS.

I wish you every luck in the future. You've just reaffirmed my decision to go LBS and turn down HBS to be the right one so many thanks. It was a very expensive bullet to have dodged.
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anon1111
Look, I don't want to waste your time or my time for that matter. What I was trying to get from you was your reasoning for going to LBS. The end result doesn't really matter to me, frankly, but what I wanted to see was what primary factors lead you to decide on LBS and whether I should consider them in my decision to apply to LBS.

You have mentioned three major factors - international links, networking opportunities and beauty of the school - which I find extremely flimsy. For 1) I have personal experience of that not being the case in Strategy Consulting at least, 2) networking is a strength of HBS and not a weakness (the financial and political capitals of the world come to you!) and 3) is a non-starter. I wanted to get you to define your reasoning but it appears these 3 are your best arguments. Sure, logic may not be one of your primary strengths and that may still make you a great human being - ignoring your last response though, that was probably an exception to your normally pleasant demeanor.

A wise man once told me that if one person calls you an idiot you ignore it. If a lot of people call you an idiot you really must evaluate what you're doing. I am sure you have legitimate reasons for choosing LBS but given its something so unheard of I wanted to see what your reasoning was. Convincing you to go to HBS will only hurt my chances there, I hope you are smart enough to see that (are you?).

Wish you all the best. Hope your arrogant retorts based on dumbfounding logic ("perched on the edge of a huge park, slap bang in the middle of London" sure so is London Met!) take you a long way. When you end up working for an HBS grad who is younger than you, you'll remember this conversation. Let's touch base in 20 years!

P.S I am being interviewed for HBS next week and may even get in, though I strongly prefer Stanford, where I interview end of Feb. I was considering options outside the US and so far no one has given me any real reasons for considering LBS. INSEAD on the other hand...
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anon1111
Also you will really enjoy this:
https://www.analystforum.com/comment/912 ... t-91295050

:-D
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anon1111
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Joined: 12 Aug 2014
Last visit: 08 Mar 2015
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Given Kudos: 27
Location: United States
Concentration: Strategy, General Management
Schools: HBS '17 (II) Wharton '17 Haas '17 Sloan '17 Jones '17 Stanford '17 Duke '17 (II)
GMAT 1: 710 Q50 V35
GMAT 2: 720 Q49 V40
WE:Other (Consulting)
Schools: HBS '17 (II) Wharton '17 Haas '17 Sloan '17 Jones '17 Stanford '17 Duke '17 (II)
GMAT 2: 720 Q49 V40
Posts: 10
Kudos: 20
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Why I'm choosing LBS over HBS 03 Feb 2015, 06:59
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I asked you before messaging if it was okay with you for me to ask a question or two. All you had to say was "No" and I would not have bothered you again. Or you could have said "It's personal, please go away" and that would be fine too, really. You asked me where I was getting on the decline of LBS and I gave you my three reasons: opinion of employers, reputation and long-term career.

I must respond to one line:
Quote:
"my views of some of the characters of those seeking to go to HBS"
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Replace "those seeking to go to HBS" with any other group of humans (by gender, race, country, disability, etc) and you'll fall in the unpleasant categories of being a sexist, racist, etc. Attributing malice in the character of applicants of a school is unacceptable. I am sure such reductionist, black-and-white thinking is not an attribute of all LBS aspirants.

I am pretty sure our conversations speak enough of our respective maturity- lets not waste our time and reduce this forum to a mockery. It does not serve anyone.

I wish you all the best.

P.S. If someone is willing to share their reasons on choosing LBS please do let me know. I will be very grateful.
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cgottuso
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Schools: Wharton Exec '21 (M)
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Why I'm choosing LBS over HBS 03 Feb 2015, 07:31
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I appreciate the write-up but you shouldn't need to justify your decisions to anybody. I've got nothing but respect for someone that doesn't fall prey to the hype and peer pressure, making their own decisions with conviction based on what suits them best. Nobody knows you better than you.

You do you, man! Congrats!
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gcb09173
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Schools: LBS '17 (M$)
Schools: LBS '17 (M$)
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Why I'm choosing LBS over HBS 03 Feb 2015, 07:33
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anon1111
I asked you before messaging if it was okay with you for me to ask a question or two. All you had to say was "No" and I would not have bothered you again. Or you could have said "It's personal, please go away" and that would be fine too, really. You asked me where I was getting on the decline of LBS and I gave you my three reasons: opinion of employers, reputation and long-term career.

I must respond to one line:
Quote:
"my views of some of the characters of those seeking to go to HBS"
Replace "those seeking to go to HBS" with any other group of humans (by gender, race, country, disability, etc) and you'll fall in the unpleasant categories of being a sexist, racist, etc. Attributing malice in the character of applicants of a school is unacceptable. I am sure such reductionist, black-and-white thinking is not an attribute of all LBS aspirants.

I am pretty sure our conversations speak enough of our respective maturity- lets not waste our time and reduce this forum to a mockery. It does not serve anyone.

I wish you all the best.

P.S. If someone is willing to share their reasons on choosing LBS please do let me know. I will be very grateful.
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"some of the characters" - I.e. there are a number of egotistical meglomaniacs (certainly not all applicants or students but clearly enough for me to notice) and this is actual personal experience not just stereotyping - how the hell do you go from there to drawing paralells to racism/sexism whatever - you're finding such tenuous links to use in your arguments.

Here's the point dude - You asked me for my reasoning - I gave it, but I certainly didn't ask you to critique my rationale without knowing me, and I certainly didn't ask you for your opinions on which was the better school for me - "Unless you're planning on sticking in London HBS is a much better bet."

If you do end up coming to LBS, please do let me know and I'll be more than happy to discuss this fully in person.
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anon1111
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Location: United States
Concentration: Strategy, General Management
Schools: HBS '17 (II) Wharton '17 Haas '17 Sloan '17 Jones '17 Stanford '17 Duke '17 (II)
GMAT 1: 710 Q50 V35
GMAT 2: 720 Q49 V40
WE:Other (Consulting)
Schools: HBS '17 (II) Wharton '17 Haas '17 Sloan '17 Jones '17 Stanford '17 Duke '17 (II)
GMAT 2: 720 Q49 V40
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Why I'm choosing LBS over HBS 03 Feb 2015, 07:42
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Quote:
If you do end up coming to LBS, please do let me know and I'll be more than happy to discuss this fully in person.
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I should discuss possible reasons to enroll in LBS AFTER I have already enrolled in LBS.

You, sir, are brilliant!!!
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gcb09173
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Schools: LBS '17 (M$)
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Why I'm choosing LBS over HBS 03 Feb 2015, 07:44
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anon1111
$1000 bucks you never got into HBS :-D
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anon1111
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GMAT 1: 710 Q50 V35
GMAT 2: 720 Q49 V40
WE:Other (Consulting)
Schools: HBS '17 (II) Wharton '17 Haas '17 Sloan '17 Jones '17 Stanford '17 Duke '17 (II)
GMAT 2: 720 Q49 V40
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Why I'm choosing LBS over HBS 03 Feb 2015, 07:49
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gcb09173
I like balls.
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TMI dude.

You win. LBS is the best. It's going to flow you rivers of gold.

I am going to actually ignore you from now. :)
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gcb09173
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Concentration: Finance, Strategy
Schools: LBS '17 (M$)
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Why I'm choosing LBS over HBS 03 Feb 2015, 07:59
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anon1111
gcb09173
I like balls.

TMI dude.

You win. LBS is the best. It's going to flow you rivers of gold.

I am going to actually ignore you from now. :)
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"respective maturity"
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anon1111
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Schools: HBS '17 (II) Wharton '17 Haas '17 Sloan '17 Jones '17 Stanford '17 Duke '17 (II)
GMAT 1: 710 Q50 V35
GMAT 2: 720 Q49 V40
WE:Other (Consulting)
Schools: HBS '17 (II) Wharton '17 Haas '17 Sloan '17 Jones '17 Stanford '17 Duke '17 (II)
GMAT 2: 720 Q49 V40
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Why I'm choosing LBS over HBS Updated on: 03 Feb 2015, 08:12
Originally posted by anon1111 on 03 Feb 2015, 08:11.
Last edited by anon1111 on 03 Feb 2015, 08:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Yes, posting screenshots to respond to what was clearly a joke - real maturity.
Getting pissed because someone disagreed with you on the internet - real maturity.
Constantly saying "I dont care what people think" "I dont need to justify my actions" while trying to bring even more people to observe your thoughts by moving a messenger chat to a discussion forum and trying to validate your own decisions in the eyes of people on the internet - This is the epitome of maturity.
Reminds me of a 6-year old who kept on saying "no" every time I asked him if he could hear me.
I am going to Kudos all your posts in this thread so you know you really have won today, Mr. mature. :-D
Wish you all the best sir. I really won't respond after this.
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cgottuso
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GPA: 3.93
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Schools: Wharton Exec '21 (M)
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Why I'm choosing LBS over HBS 03 Feb 2015, 08:12
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anon1111
Yes, posting screenshots to respond to what was clearly a joke - real maturity.
Getting pissed because someone disagreed with you on the internet - real maturity.
Constantly saying "I dont care what people think" "I dont need to justify my actions" while trying to bring even more people to observe your thoughts by moving a messenger chat to a discussion forum and trying to validate your own decisions in the eyes of people on the internet - This is the epitome of maturity.
Reminds me of a 6-year old who kept on saying "no" every time I asked him if he could hear me.
Wish you all the best sir. I really won't respond after this.
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Not responding after saying "I really won't respond after this" - real maturity.

Sorry...I had to...
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kingfalcon
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Why I'm choosing LBS over HBS 03 Feb 2015, 22:55
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This topic has gotten a little out of hand. Locked.