Ross (no $) vs Olin ($$$)

Question

Hey everyone,

I know this has been asked before but I think my circumstances are bit different because of my goals. I have a full scholarship to Olin (St. Louis) and no money to Ross. My post MBA goals are corporate finance / strategy but I am a bit averse to moving to large coastal cities - LA, SF, NYC, Boston. When I review employment reports for both schools I see that average salaries in other regions of the country are between 100k-120k for financial services, but I'm not sure how much of that is inflated by other areas outside of corporate finance. By my estimation, I would need to land a 120k salary job to manage the amount of debt I would take on at Ross.

If I were to do consulting or IB, it seems like Ross is a no brainer. I am desperately trying to justify taking out loans at Ross, mostly because if I do well and land a sweet gig, I should be able to manage the debt in 2-3 years living a modest lifestyle - I talked to a few students who financed their entire tuition and this seems to be the case for many. Ross has a powerhouse alumni network and I am hoping it pays off 10 to 20 years down the road when I am working towards executive/c-suite roles.

I apologize for the long explanation, but I would definitely appreciate any insights.

bb · Answer

Congrats on your admits!

It is a personal decision and many factors in there besides $$$. We all pick things based on quality, etc but when we hear the price, we often reconsider the decision. Ross is a great school yet at the same time it is not Harvard of Stanford with an iconic brand. It has been around 10 points ranking higher than Olin consistently and shot up this year. Olin was in top 20 in the last few years so it is not a dump either.

I would point out a few quick things:
1. I have never seen anyone pay back loans in a few years - it is very very hard. After 2 years of school you will need a new wardrobe, new car, new place to live, etc - you will be tired of being broke for 2 years. I only know one person at GMAT Club who managed to live very frugally after graduating his MBA and save most of his money. He did amass a small fortune with stock/etc within 5 yeas of graduating but it was a sacrifice.

2. Where Ross shines vs. Olin is on campus recruiting. It is the big value of a large program and a big brand MBA. By taking the scholarship, you will be losing some of this value to potentially recruit with Microsoft, Amazon, etc though they are not a slam dunk either... but still. Same goes about internships. With Olin, I would plan to do all recruiting off campus and be on your own. Maybe the career services will help but I would not count on it. As a US applicant, you have an advantage in a sense that you don't have to worry about work permits or language barrier.

3. Salary figures can be deceiving esp since they are self-reported. However making $120K+ for someone in late 20's early 30's is very doable with both programs. It really depends if you can get into the right company. This money goes a lot further if you are in mid-west however, rather than in Bay Area so keep in that mind, and look up rents to get an idea how little 120K buys after taxes

4. Check Reviews for both schools:
https://gmatclub.com/reviews/business_school/olin-61
https://gmatclub.com/reviews/business_school/ross-8

See if things jump out at you and if you can live with some of the weaknesses as a trade off for $150K. The easiest way to pay off a loan in a few years is not to have one at all.

Good Luck with your decision!

Green1333 · Answer

Thanks for your input, bb! Your points have given me additional things to consider.

I agree that it is overly optimistic to eliminate 6 figure debt in a matter of a few years. I was thinking more along the lines of getting the loan balance down to a manageable monthly payment by utilizing signing bonus / relocation assistance / higher salary to make a huge dent early on, that is if I am fortunate to receive any or all of those. The idea would be to get from 2000 per month down to 900-1200 per month early on so I can breathe again after a year or so. The graduates I spoke with were able to manage doing that, not eliminating all debt. I apologize for my lack of clarification. I should also mention that my partner is assisting me during and after the MBA so I will not have to survive on my own, which helps considerably.

On campus recruiting is a significant difference between the two schools. I 100% agree that more work is required at Olin, especially after talking with current students. Some students do land in the Amazon/MSFT tiers but not nearly as many as at Ross. One of my challenges has been deciding to take my chances at Ross to better position myself for a job at Amazon (Ross is it's highest feeder school) or similar company. The recruiting, brand, and network definitely sway me towards Ross but doing well at Olin for free seems like it could work out. However, one of my other concerns is where each degree helps me go in the long run, and I'm not sure how to answer that.

It's a tough call at the end of the day. Will I get more opportunities with a Ross MBA? Probably. Could I still end up in the same roles with an Olin MBA? Maybe. Will employers care about Ross vs Olin on my resume in 10 years? I think it depends on the employer. One comment I read is that I could put "full scholarship" on my resume with Olin, which sounds cool, though I'm not sure how much weight that carries. It seems like I will always wonder "what if" no matter which route I take, but I guess that's life.

Does anyone else have any advice or considerations?

bb · Answer

Sounds like you have a great understanding of your options and sorry if I was too quick to read your point about getting the loan to the manageable amount. It makes sense, and is possible. Keep in mind that in that stage of life, most people will try to save for a downpayment to buy a place of their own so paying down BSchool loan may come at a cost of delaying a house purchase but life is never perfect and then there are kids, etc.

10 Years from now, your employer will hardly look at your MBA pedigree. It may matter a tiny bit if they have gone to the same school or respect you since you went to a better ranked program or question you but all you had to say is you GOT IN to Ross. Nobody cares if you actually graduate

anyway - your network will be different and you won't rely on alums to score you a job; it will be more of a safety net, which hopefully you will never need. I have not jumped jobs but I know very few people who have looked for jobs via their BSchool network 10 years later...

Green1333 · Answer

No worries! I definitely did not explain myself better at the beginning so that's on me. I truly appreciate your thoughtful responses, bb! Though I still see a lot of value in going with Ross, it sounds like Olin might be a better fit given my circumstances. On a level playing field this would be an easy decision but costs and opportunities shift things, as they always do

Getting that awesome first job will most likely be more of a challenge given the lack of on-campus recruiting but it is by no means impossible. I am kind of hoping someone can convince me otherwise but, aside from following my gut impulse, all rationale indicates Olin is the move. I read some responses about people choosing between Kenan-Flegler and other similar schools with full (or near full) scholarships vs. Ross / Darden / Fuqua. Has anyone out there turned down the money? Edit: Looks like the poll is going for Ross so far. Thanks again!

bb · Answer

Lots of international applicants do turn down the likes of McCombs with money for ROSS. International candidates need all the help they can get recruiting and Ross name helps with on campus especially.

The other take is that many see mba as not a simple thing vestment but rather an achievement. Going to Ross is a greater achievement than Olin. Would you stop a few hours short from climbing the top of Everest? Or take $100k for trading a gold medal in Olympics for 10th spot?

People are competitive and they need all the confidence they can get, even if it is purely psychological.

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Green1333 · Answer

I read some responses from international applications who went for higher tier schools with no money and I think the logic makes total sense. Landing a job is important for all MBA candidates, but it seems especially crucial for international students because of all the visa issues in the US. I'm not an expert in that area, but it if that is the case, a heavy recruiting powerhouse like Ross makes perfect sense at full sticker price.

I think the most significant questions I have answered so far are the following:
"Will Ross help me achieve my goals" - absolutely
"Can I financially make it work going to Ross?" - yes. Ouch, but yes nonetheless.

The million dollar question is whether or not I should go to Ross given the free alternative. Quantifying the additional value I would gain at 130k debt is a challenge. I believe the salary difference is somewhat minimal between the two, but Ross gives an edge in terms of opportunities - much like the analogies you gave, would I rather pay for a Ferrari or take a free BMW? A BMW is a great car but I would rather drive a Ferrari, but maybe not at market price.

I still have a bit of time to think about it, but relenting because of money rather than capability is tough. It's all good at the end of the day, though. Thanks again for your insight!

stonecold · Answer

Just to chime in - An erudite person once said- "A free ride at a Top-20 school is like a Top 10 admit with no money at all"
Olin is an amazing school. Off-course, Ross is better but is it worth giving up the free ride at Olin ? I don't think so!

Especially if you are an international applicant- Always go with the No-Loan option for schools which are ranked similar. It will take you atleast 5-6 years (if you live Frugally!) to repay the money. Coming out of a business school and living frugally is no fun. You would want spend a bit on yourself and your family. Again, Ross is a better school. But the difference in the cost is too large to be overlooked and Olin with a FREE ride is a much better option. Having said that, you are in a great position to choose between two excellent schools and cannot really go wrong.

Also, if you hustle- There is NOTHING that you cannot achieve at Olin! All the best. Goodluck with the decision.

bb · Answer

Ultimately nobody knows. Nobody got their MBA from one school and then took the Time Machine back and gotten it from another. Life has a lot of randomness and chance. You may meet someone and together start the new Apple, Facebook, or Microsoft at either school.

What it all comes down to is, a few years from now, will you regret your decision? The grass is always greener on the other side and if you are concerned about what if‘s and if you keep going back and doubting your decision, then you need to go to Ross. If you can let go and move on with your life and take advantage of the great experience at Olin then by all means.

PS. Some people, and I would be one of them, are willing to pay a premium not to have a doubt and never have to ask the question. I would say we’re not as strong as others who make big decisions without hesitation.

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Ross (no $) vs Olin ($$$)

Ross (no $) vs. Olin (full ride)

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