Grade Non-disclosure

Question

I just started researching grade disclosure policies a little more and was interested to see what others think of this. Wharton is having a big debate about this issue.

rhyme · Answer

Non disclosure of grades is a good thing.

pelihu · Answer

The short answer is that students like it but employers don't.

WBF · Answer

which schools (elite & ultra elite) have the non-disclosure policy?

rhyme · Answer

I dont know em all... but 

Kellogg does not
GSB does
Harvard did, but has since rescinded it going forward (I believe)

lepium · Answer

About HBS, the do disclose grades, but from an alum you are graded as follows: 

Top 10%
Middle 80%
Bottom 10%

He said that a few students will play the grades game while others will aim for middle 80% in most courses and maybe focus their energy on getting top 10% for a few very relevant courses for their intended post-MBA careers, etc. 

Hope it helps. L.

braindancer · Answer

What's good about that? Isn't grade disclosure a chance to show you're the best and better sell yourself to employers?

(just digging into the point)

neo276 · Answer

The Bad:

* Many people may not experiment and try new courses if grades are disclosed to employers. 
* Disclosing grades may encourage competitive attitude at the cost of collaboration. Employers value collaboration and hence schools want to promote it.
* Disclosing grades may make students too focussed on grades and less on actual learning.

The Good:
* Grade disclosure would be a kick in the butt of those who dont take acads seriously - no kidding - after spending 2 years of one's life and a fortune, there are still folks out there who dont attend classes at top b-schools. I remember Wharton adcom mentioning that grade disclosure was encouraged by the school for this very reason in one info session. Besides on my school visit to Wharton, i noticed that many students in the core ethics course were absent. (based on my assumption that there are ~70-80 students in a cohort) This is bad for other students as well in a case based courses.

* One gets a chance to sell oneself better to prospective employers (Good only for folks who are in the top quarter percentile)


I personally dont care either way. I am pretty competitive so grade disclosure is fine for me but at the same time non-disclosure is alright too.

pelihu · Answer

As Neo276 said, if grades are disclosed then people will sign up for courses in which they are likely to do well (stuff they are already good at). If grades are not disclosed, people are likely to sign up for courses that are useful to them (to learn new stuff).

But, as pointed out, non-disclosure encourages laziness.

rhyme · Answer

As someone without a 3.8 GPA, and who saw just how badly a so-so GPA can damange your recruiting chances at an undergraduate level, I fully support non-disclosure.

lhotseface · Answer

People with a 3.8 GPA will make the reverse argument. BTW, GMAT and undergraduate GPA also play a huge role in getting interview calls with top notch IB and consulting firms. I don't care one way or the other.

braindancer · Answer

I got your point, but somehow I thought that undergrad GPA and MBA GPA are perceived differently... It's understandable (or at least *should* be understandable) to an employer that during undergrad you were still looking for your path, trying different disciplines and otherwise fooling around. For MBA, one should already be pretty determined as to what path he/she takes, so low GPA is less excusable. I'm just trying to say this medal has two sides... If I'm a 4.0 GPA killer, it may be more than annoying for me to see a class-skipping retard have equal employment chances...

pelihu · Answer

My experience is that non-disclosure benefits all students during the recruiting process.

At Michigan Law School, they had a policy that required all firms hoping to recruit on campus to interview all interested students (at least up to one full day of interviews). There were 2-3 firms that declined to interview on campus because of this, but hundreds of firms and offices bit the bullet and continued to recruit on campus.

Now, this wasn't a strict grade non-disclosure policy because firms did eventually receive the grades, but at least every single student had the opportunity to interview with the firms they were most interested in. I'm sure that some students that wouldn't have been able to "make the grade" landed jobs because they kicked ass in their interview.

I think the bottom line is whether the school has the wherewithal to maintain the policy of grade non-disclosure, or whether employers are able to impose their will and force the school to disclose grades. Firms will probably continue to visit the most elite schools no matter what. At lower ranked schools, firms might only be interested in the top 5% or something, and if forced to interview all comers, they might just decide it isn't worth it.

braindancer · Answer

...except the top 5% you mentioned.

In this case, they can't just skim the cream off their blood-and-sweat-earned GPA, but have to once again prove their worth from ground zero.

imjimmy · Answer

I would want the MBA grades to be disclosed. The recruiters look at the GMAT, and in the absence of MBA grades they might consider the Undergrad grades. There has to be some shortlisting done on the basis of the credentials of each applicant and grades are one among several things which help select applicants. Not many companies interview every student oncampus who sends his/her resume.

Surely the MBA grades are an opportunity to make amends for those who had a poor undergrad GPA

[I can't wait to kickass and get a 4.0 during the MBA]

sm176811 · Answer

I totally agree... and to add to that, especially for those of us interested in career change, we can demonstrate how good (or bad) we are in areas that are new to us (without prior work ex or undergraduate experience).

neo276 · Answer

About career changers,

For those of you who are applying to Stanford and have a career change goals story : Did you know that Stanford is probably the only business school that has fixed interview slots for career changers? No wonder it is not employer's favourite.

I know for a fact that Wharton and Sloan dont have reserved slots for career changers. Its unlikely that Chicago GSB, Kellog or any other top b-school for that matter has the wherewithal for such a policy. Am not sure about HBS though.

Many top notch IB and Consulting firms would otherwise prefer to choose to interview only candidates with relevant past work-ex.

So yes, in case of grade non-disclosure, it may be hard for a career changer with non-stellar GMAT (>740 as per Wharton career office guidelines) and no prior relevant work-ex to even secure an interview with McKinsey.

just a titbit. No matter how dilligent one is, there are some realities that will unfold only when one gets in to the b-school.

ps_dahiya · Answer

I like Wharton's new policy (per Gabriela Snyder, Associate Director). Volunteer disclosure by candidate. School won't do it but you can.

braindancer · Answer

Sounds good, but in this case employer would force you to disclose grades, and if you don't - assume your GPA sucks.

rhyme · Answer

Just one more reason why you wouldn't want to waste your time with IB.

Grade Non-disclosure

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