Age

Question

Hjort -

A quick question for you. In your experience, have you ever found a school to deny admission based solely on the age of the applicant - in my case, being too old?

I just took the GMAT, scored a 710 (44 Q 42 V), and am currently 28 with 6 years of work experience, primarily in derivatives trading. I left trading last summer in order to pursue a startup consulting opportunity. I have an interest in B-school simply because there is a lot that I don't know (corp finance, accounting, etc) and my new firm (I am not the founder) would like to have an 'insider' with a top b-school education both for the education and the networking opportunities. 

I feel that my chances at a top 15 school are relatively good at this point but to get to my question, would defering another year, until fall 07, when i will be 30, hurt my chances? Another year would significantly improve my 'story', but I hear stories of schools frowning on older applicants.

I am tossing around the idea of the NYU Part-time program, as i am in NYC, but would honestly prefer to wait another year and go FT. I am not entirely sold on my current position and while I might return after B-school I would also like the exposure to recruiters that only seems to come with a FT program.

Thank you for any insight and/or advice.

WDG

Hjort · Answer

There are a few schools that expressly state that they prefer younger applicants (e.g. IESE) and some that appear to prefer them (e.g. HBS). However, like so many generalities, both types of schools have been known to accept students in their early 30s. While some of my fellow advisors might differ, I do not consider the difference between (say) 29 and 30 worth worrying about. If the addition of a year would improve your candidacy in a meaningful way, I would wait. Regardless, there are a number of ultra elite schools that are very willing to accept older candidates either in MBA programs (Penn, Chicago, and Northwestern) and/or Sloan style programs (Stanford and MIT). 

Hjort

drummond · Answer

Are you saying that there are Graduate schools which specifically use upper age limits as a criterion against admission?

There happens to be a Federal law against that, if we're talking about public schools.

drummond · Answer

Also, in New York City, the Human Rights Law, Title 8, Section 8-107, makes it an unlawful discriminatory practice for an employer to discriminate against "any person because of their age, race, creed, color, national origin, gender, disability, marital status, sexual orientation, or alienage or citizenship status. It also prohibits educational institutions from discriminating against persons in any of the above categories in the provision of certain accommodations, advantages, facilities or privileges."

https://www.nyc.gov/html/cchr/html/ch1.html#7

This may help in your area, should it become a factor.

Hjort · Answer

Drummond makes some good points about Equal Opportunity laws. Alas there are a few problems:

1) Schools that expressly state an age preference are generally outside the reach of the jurisdictions mentioned (US federal and NYC municipal law). Of course, other jurisdictions have similar EO laws but they also have their own set of exemptions. 

2) Virtually all schools in the US are aware of the law, public perception of what the law states, and the unseemliness of denying admission based on age. Accordingly, they will not state their reasons for rejection explicitly. Regardless, trying to prove that age was a significant motivating factor behind rejection (if indeed that was the case) would be an extremely difficult undertaking. 

Many schools have internal policies that prohibit discrimination based on age:

"All decisions concerning an individual's admission to or participation in any University program must be based on that individual's qualifications, free of stigmatizing consideration of race, color, national or ethnic origin, religion, disability, gender, sexual orientation, marital status, age, citizenship or Vietnam era or disabled veteran status."

Columbia University

drummond · Answer

I would go on to add that most schools with whom I have spoken, have an interest in a "diverse" class, which often emphasizes people with practical experience. Accordingly, I have found a surprising degree of interest from Rice, St. Thomas, Texas A&M, and Houston, given my Liberal Arts B.A. - I am attractive for my resume, provided my GMAT meets the grade.

drummond · Answer

... and, ( I admit in advance this is not a proper Christmas sentiment ), in my work I have found that a letter on a Law Firm's stationery can sometimes resolve thorny differences of opinion. While winning a case in court is difficult, if you are reasonable but firm, the threat of legal action is enough to make many people reconsider their options. It's amazing, but many times over the years I have found that if you and the other party both know that they are morally in the wrong, the warning that you will act on an issue often acts as a fulcrum to convince them to do the right thing. It's a last-resort tool, but it is a useful one to know.

As a caveat, bear in mind that you do not want a reputation of being litigious, and you should be absolutely sure of your facts before pursuing such a drastic course, but if you are convinced that you are in the right, New York City has many lawyers who would jump at the case. I know; here in Houston we get NYC lawyers on all kinds of situations!

WDG · Answer

Thanks for all of the insight. 

Just to clarify, I am not facing an age discrimination situation right now. After hearing that some of the top schools are increasingly marketing themselves to younger applicants I was simply curious as to whether or not these schools might actually prefer younger students - as this seems to go against the traditional 'experience is vital' admissions criteria.

drummond · Answer

Depends on the school, then.

But speaking as someone who has interviewed and hired quite a few people in my day, I would think more highly of a school which considered practical experience a 'plus', rather than a 'liability', which age seems to play in some cases.

Hjort · Answer

If anything, admissions is a difficult balancing act. If you stress experience too much, you end up discriminating against younger candidates and risk excluding many female candidates (who might exit the labor market in their late 20s to have children). Further, some ultra elite/top cluster Europe schools essentially view their education as a transformative life experience. Hence the emphasis on potential rather than experience alone. The sooner you benefit from the intervention of this top level education, the further you can advance in life. A 24 year old candidate thus has nearly a decade more to utilize this education than her counterpart in his 30s. An analogous argument has traditionally been used to justify a preference for younger candidates for medical school. 

The main point, however, is that a vast array of opportunities are available from the top cluster schools for candidates above the mean age. 

Hjort

dogbert · Answer

Are there schools which particularly encourage yong applicants? HBS, for one.... besides this, I have heard of UCLA, Columbia encouraging younger applicants. Please do let me know if there are other such schools.

Thanks!

Porscheboy16 · Answer

Me too.

And how young is "young?"

yb · Answer

Of those that I have researched, the following encourage young aspirants w/ little or no work experience to apply:

UCLA
Stanford
Yale
Rochester (25% of the class < 2 yrs work experience)
Carnegie Mellon
HBS
U. of Michigan

Porscheboy16 · Answer

Harvard is big on it? Nice to know.

How young is too young? And, how little is little work experience?

Background:
-I am graduating college 3 yrs early (graduate at 19 this spring)
-I only have part-time work experience in a motley group (substitute teaching, farm laborer, and planning to work as a mortgage broker this fall).
-3.45 GPA, BA Economics, University of Delaware
-Thinking about pursuing an MA Economics part-time while working before getting my MBA (University of Delaware has told me I could get "good" funding).
-With work I feel I could score well (730-50) on GMAT. My evidence (not an exact science) is that I scored a 163 (89th percentile) on my LSAT w/ little to no preparation.
-My EC's are limited to German Honors Society and my car club. I have been very involved with that management aspects of the car club (it is almost like a job).


Thanks for any answers.

Hjort · Answer

This link might be useful: https://www.gmatclub.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=15423

Age

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