Applying with a 640 GMAT (43Q/35V) to Darden and Stanford!

Question

I took my GMAT 4 months ago and scored 640. I dislike standardized tests and don’t want to take it again, unless I absolutely have to.

My Profile: Female, Age 23, 4 yrs work experience (when school starts). BS in Finance and Math.

I come from a smaller university but have a diverse work experience. In my latest position, I am the youngest person working in Corporate Strategy for a Fortune 300 company (just two layers below the CEO). I have a very unique story and I think my recommendations will be solid. 

BWeek shows that mid 80% range for Stanford is 660-770 and for Darden is 630-720, so I am still in the 'range' with Darden and have 20% chance at Stanford? 

I would like to get some perspective on whether I am taking too big of a risk by relying heavily on my essays and work experience, and not so much on my GMAT?

Any advice would be appreciated. Regards

pelihu · Answer

Average GMAT at Stanford is over 720, so that range looks correct. Word out of Darden is that for this past application season, average GMAT was over 700, so the middle 80% range should be 650-750, or something like that.

I'll point out 2 things. First, if you have a GMAT at the average, then without considering other parts of the application you probably have a chance equal to the admit rate of being admitted. If you are below the average then your chances will be lower. In other words, if you take some random Stanford applicant with a 720 GMAT (looking only at that), there's probably about a 10% chance or less that he/she will be admitted. Second, virtually all of those admitted with scores below the middle 80% range will be from underrepresented minorities; it's so rare that it might be better to just consider it "all" instead of "virtually all". Judging by your screen name, I'd say that probably doesn't include you; although being female should help.

Also, you should consider that schools count full-time post-college work experience. You state 4 years, so you graduated from college when you were 19? They don't consider part-time work experience or work during school the same; those are viewed more as extracurricular activities.

So, to answer your final question, I'd say that without some extraordinary factors in your work experience and activities (beyond what you've listed), your chances at Stanford are more or less nil. Stanford does like younger applicants, but they also like high GMAT scores and stellar profiles. You might have a chance at Darden, though to consider your GMAT score "in range" is incorrect. At best, you'd be at the very bottom of the acceptable scores, but more likely you are well below the current range and well below the range for your demographic. Also, Darden favors longer work experience, so I'll ask again, is that 4 years full-time after college? That would be important.

You didn't mention your GPA, but obviously it will have to be near perfect to offset your GMAT score. Considering your GMAT and undergraduate school (you didn't say, but I think we can infer non-name-brand from your message), anything less than a near perfect GPA isn't worth discussing. With another 60-80 points on your GMAT you would be about average at Darden (for your demographic), but at Stanford you'd probably still be at the very bottom for admitted students (again from your demographic). My advice would be to score 700+ on the GMAT and add a few more schools to your list.

ufgrad · Answer

Stanford is a longer shot than Virginia, but both are reaches. 

You should diversify you schools to include some where your 640 fits closer to the median...

kidderek · Answer

Good luck. 

Also, if you're going to post that you got accepted, first check for appropriate timelines.

bsd_lover · Answer

Its interesting you mention this pelihu. I know I am drifting slightly off topic here, but during my undergraduate program, I had 3 jobs, 2 at the undergraduate department (marking and tutoring) and another part time job at a dot.com. Now does it make sense to highlight these as 'extra curriculars' ? They sound pretty boring to me ....

pelihu · Answer

Well, some schools will give you the opportunity to list the jobs that you have held during college. Others actually have you list them right along with your activities. Some schools don't even have a place for you to list jobs that you held during school - they specify "post college work experience" or something like that in their work experience sections. It's then up to you to detail your expience during school.

I was like you bsd, I worked almost full-time through college and during law school as well. As I recall, not a single school wanted that information in the main word experience section. The jobs you had through your school will almost certainly not be considered work experience; and it's up to you to sell your part-time job at the dot.com. Perhaps more important than how the job is classified is how you spin your experiences (leadership, teamwork, etc.)

bsd_lover · Answer

Thanks

It does sound a bit rough, in that these part time jobs during university actually give one a lot of valuable life experience. Not to mention they show pro activeness and initiative on these students' part.

americandesi333 · Answer

Thanks Pelihu for some insight. I will have 4 years of full-time work experience (including 3 month internship) by matriculation in 2008. Also, my undergrad GPA was 3.4. And you are right; my university was a non-brand-name university. And I am of Indian ethnicity (which I think wont help since there is a huge influx of Indians applying to B-school). 

I came to US by myself when I was 15 and made my life here on my own (financially). After that, I went to support my sibling and parents. Therefore, I say that I have a 'unique' story. I could have gone to a brand- name school but from what I have seen, I feel that my education was at par, if not superior, to what they have to offer.

I have strong quantitative/analytical skills and therefore was attracted by Darden's rigorous case-study method. Stanford's focus on research and the stellar faculty are why I want to apply there. 

Like I said before, I think standardized tests are worthless. But I will take your advice and give it another shot. I will put dedicated 3 weeks into it and then focus on my applications. I want to apply to these schools in R1

Any more suggestions would help. Thanks.

dabots · Answer

you started fulltime at 19?

dukes · Answer

I know you hate standardized tests, but I would recommend studying as hard as you possibly can, i.e. more than three weeks. The GMAT doesn't become meaningless once you get into school.

grad_mba · Answer

Just wondering - how about being on the University payroll as a Teaching/Research Assistant ? Does that count as work experience?

pelihu · Answer

I'd say, almost certainly not. It's not post-graduation. It's not full-time. It's really really closely related to school. I think a good guideline is that most b-schools put almost no value on academic recommendations; they really want professional recommendations. This type of job really sounds like it falls in with "academic".

lepium · Answer

The experience you got is one of the many things that may have helped you progress at your full time job after graduation. So once you have had some post-graduation experience, the previous experience is not relevant per se, but rather if it was helpful for you to progress in your full time job.

About pro-activeness, I think most extra-curricular activities show pro-activeness. At least anything outside playing PS2 (or 3) and watching TV means you are actually making some kind of effort. Some of us had to work part time during college, some didn't but wanted to, others didn't. I don't think that working during college makes us better people down the road. More experienced at graduation? Maybe. More mature/better 5 years after graduation? I don't think so.

L.

zakk · Answer

I'd get some more seasoning.

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