B schools without recommendation letter? (650 40V/40Q) for Fall 2021

Question

Hi there - I quit my job in March 2020 (yes - terrible timing!) to prepare for GMAT full time, but unfortunately my GMAT plans got delayed due to Covid. After taking the GMAT 3 times between August and December, the I scored 640, 650 and 640. As my score will show, I am pretty weak at Quant. After deciding to settle for nothing less than the top 100 B schools, I have now decided to compromise and move on to a slightly less demanding B school.

The problem is that I have exhausted all the good will possible by asking my former bosses to fill in recommendation letters for me. I worked in a small law firm and I had three attorneys to whom I reported. I asked each one of them to fill up two recommendations (and I asked one to fill up three) to a total of five universities, all of whom rejected me. I could ask them to fill up one or two more, but only if absolutely necessary to apply to a good university which has a realistic chance of accepting me. My initial target was Jan 2021 intake, but now I want to apply for fall 2021. Can anyone provide me with options for Universities at my GMAT range and those who don't require a recommendation letter. I understand that some universities only require a recommendation letter if they are actively considering you offering a place on their program. If any of you guys know such a place, that would be appreciated.

Happy Holidays to all!

chiefinance · Answer

I don't understand. Did you have issues with top 100 business schools? Your scores are good for even top 40/50 programs. If you had issues with top 100 schools then it was not your GMAT or even recommendations.

arvindr92 · Answer

That's what I thought too. Based on my planning, I was specifically targeting B schools that started classes in January 2021 and I was targetting one year programs outside the US. I applied to Ivey, SMU, ESMT, WHU and Rotterdam School of Business. Unfortunately all of them rejected me without giving me a reason. I don't have management experience per se, but I was a corporate lawyer for nearly 5 years. I meet the experience requirements. However, my college scores are very weak. That's partly a function of me not paying much attention in college as as well as the fact that law school GPAs in India are usually not very high. My GPA is 2.55/7, that's around 59%. I think my college score would have been a factor in me getting rejected.

My career plans are also a little weird. I worked as a corporate lawyer with clients in the technology sector, but I never enjoyed my job working for the likes of Big Tech. I want to work in sustainable businesses such as recycling or renewable energy, and I recognize my current skill set does not align with these goals at all.

I thought I could try to 'lie' in my essays and pretend that a career in technology is all that I have dreamed of, but I'd rather be authentic than fake my way into something. Therefore, even if my GMAT score was able to somewhat compensate for my poor college GPAs, the gap between my real world experience and what I want to do is too large I think for some B schools to take a gamble on.

That being said, SMU was very interested in my profile and went on to say that if I had a higher GMAT Quant score they would have taken me. They ported my application to 2022 because I was an edge case for them

Also - almost all B schools I applied to said that applications are at a all time high due to Covid. So there's that.

arvindr92 · Answer

I should also add. Another issue in my profile is that I barely have any 'leadership' or 'volunteering' experience in the conventional sense. I wasn't in any committee in law school, nor did I volunteer during my professional career. Working as a corporate lawyer in India (or I imagine anywhere) doesn't leave you with a lot of free time, other than to do the bare essentials. At the end of every week I just spent time doing chores and catching up with my sleep. I was too exhausted to do anything else.

I believe this has also significantly impacted my profile. I can't say I was a particular club or spent time volunteering. As I said, I was not the most meritorious or focused student in college, but I really tried to turn things around once I started working. My annual salary increased by nearly 10 times in the five years that I worked (compared to my first year). This is something I mentioned in my WHU essay, but I guess talking about money as a unit of achievement to suggest I turned my life around sort of backfired.

At this point I know that I can start small (at a lower tier B school) and work my way up. I just don't know how to make my profile stand out. Me being male and Indian doesn't help matters either I guess. ESMT straight up told me they have 7 more Indians in their waitlist and they will almost certainly reject me (they did) if I applied because they can admit only so many Indians a year.

bb · Answer

Welcome to GMAT Club. I am not aware of many programs that work without LOR's
Have you tried the WAMC tool? It does not go too high on the ranking scale past the top 30 but gives an idea.

These are hard times in many respects. I am sure preparing for the GMAT was a challenge during these times and I am sorry about the 3 attempts. 650 is a fine score for many but the top MBA programs if you have a strong profile or don't come from a very competitive background. If you do, you can pick one that is around 600 average or shift to GRE. Many have had success taking the GRE and going through that Door instead of the GMAT.

nakulsridhar · Answer

I was in a very similar situation, spent (or rather, wasted) days making up my mind about approaching one of my employers. He is tough to deal with and needs excessive coaxing to get things done. So I completely understand your position. Here are some tips, based on my experience: 1. I had informed all three recommenders of mine that I might be applying to more schools in R2, some time in Jan. This helps immensely in going back to them if/when required. I know this may not be an option now, but you could tell them that you're preparing R2 applications as a safety net and hence you would soon be sending them the recommendation requests. Gives them some time to come to grips with your request. It's likely that they will oblige. 2. I considered asking a senior on my team who often mentored me, but he wasn't my reporting manager. In my completely uninformed opinion, if you are one hundred percent sure that you cannot ask a supervising/reporting manager to write another recommendation, then you might wanna consider approaching a senior or a team member of sorts, preferably someone at a designation above yours. Needless to say, you should have worked together in some manner, else it may lose value. Adcoms are really busy right now, but it would definitely help to clarify from them if your recommender *must* be a reporting manager. 3. Some schools also accept an academic reference. Usually the ones outside the top 5 in Canada. I have an excellent relationship with a professor, so I leveraged that relationship for two of my five applications. You might wanna consider something like that. Some of them (especially ones who are ready to give you a recommendation but don't remember you well enough now) may even ask you to write the recommendation yourself and send it to them. This would be a great opportunity. If this is doable, research well and you can easily write a truthful yet strong recommendation. I used my employer's year end evaluation as inspiration - it was in bullet points, so that helped me convert them into sentences and weave in specific examples from college. 4. The last and most viable option - crawl back to the same people, explain to them that the unexpected spike in applications dented your chances at your R1 schools. Not only Covid, but also the negative immigration rhetoric in the US has meant Canadian schools have received more than 3x the usual applications. Sometimes when you genuinely show that you need help, you get it. You just gotta be nice and explain why you are in need of help. It should do the trick. Plus, recommenders must understand - we wouldn't ask them if we could help it

I would hope your recommenders wouldn't want the guilt of derailing the career of a former colleague. I think it's wise of you to "settle" for a smaller brand school, but my belief is the Canadian job market will be rewarding when you have 1-2 years of any Canadian work experience irrespective of your MBA school brand. Good luck!

arvindr92 · Answer

Yes - I have also tried the WAMC tool. I didn't seem to understand how it works since I don't know if I am an underrepresented or overrepresented demographic. Based on the viewership of GMATClub videos on YouTube and the email from the ESMT Admissions Director, I would think that Indians are very overrepresented, but at the same time, I am not an engineer, I was a technology lawyer providing regulatory and policy advise to multinational tech companies including Big Tech. So, I guess I am underrepresented? I don't think I stand much of a chance with any of those Universities to be honest. I am also specifically avoiding the US simply because getting a visa to work and pay off my debts is far too uncertain without immigration reform. It's so easy to find Top 100 MBAs. If only I could easily find the top 200

I can still submit an LOR if specifically requested as part of a reference check, but I don't think I can ask my former supervisors to fill up letters of recommendation again and again when my chances of entering are bleak.

arvindr92 · Answer

Hey that's actually a good suggestion. There was in fact one team mate of mine who was my senior and with whom I share a good rapport. Are there any B schools in Canada apart from Rotman or Ivey you suggest I check out? I was hoping to do a one year program, as far as I understand only Ivey offers that in Canada?

nakulsridhar · Answer

I did not target one-year programs, so I'm not well acquainted with them. Ivey, Smith, Schulich, HEC Montreal and Beedie offer 12-month programs of sorts. Sorry I don't know anything more about this

ARINGO · Answer

Most MBA programs at the top business schools require 1-3 letters of recommendation with your application. However, there are several top business schools that will accept your application for their MBA without letters of recommendation. You can find a list of top MBA programs that don’t require letters of recommendation here: https://www.aringo.com/mba-without-lett ... mendation/

B schools without recommendation letter? (650 40V/40Q) for Fall 2021

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