Engineering PhD switching to MBA Finance

Question

Hello everyone,

I'm new to posting here, but have always found this forum to be immensely helpful when seeking advice regarding school or career. So, I would appreciate it if would help evaluate my chances for an MFE or an MBA, with finance emphasis.

I'm currently a first year PhD student at a Top 5 engineering school (CalTech), majoring in electrical engineering. It wasn't easy for me to get here - my university accepted only about 5% of applications for the PhD program this year. However, I've become somewhat jaded by the fact that engineers don't make that much money, so I would like to switch to the finance industry. Yes, I apologize, but, it's all about the money (I don't come from a particularly wealthy family).

Some background: I have a BS and MS in electrical engineering, with a 4.0 GPA for my MS and <3.5 for my BS. My GRE scores are Q: 800, V: 700, AW: 6.0 (all >90th percentile). I also have internships at Intel, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, and quite a bit of consulting experience. I have no full time experience.

My question is: given my background and motivation, what are my chances in making into one of top schools, with an emphasis in finance?

Thank you all for your help.

krussell · Answer

Engineers are prominent people in B School. My class is filled with Engineers and Bankers.

It might take some explanation as to why you're switching so soon into such a prestigious program and they might wonder if you'd do the same if admitted into an MBA/MFA program.

However, it is impressive that you got into CalTech and that would work to your advantage.

shaselai · Answer

wow impressive resume! but it might be a little hard to tell them why you want to switch after getting a PHD. I mean PHD is pretty involving and people who does it are really focused in the area. Now you are basically tossing it aside for finance... but oyu got great scores so you will prob get in anyway...

3underscore · Answer

Engineering PhDs are prominent in Finance. If you actually like engineering, continue with your PhD and look to cover topics that are encouraged by Quants within the business, apply for bank internships.

An MBA is not the only way, and may not be the best way if you are solely interested in money. The engineering, if interesting to you, can allow you to actually enjoy making money. Which really helps.

PadawanOfTheGMAT · Answer

He said it's for ca$h reasons. The thing is to not say that way in the application.

smileyface · Answer

But engineering PhD from Caltech though? Do banks recruit from Caltech? (I doubt it) That's the question he may need to answer.

But, dropping out of a PhD program will not look good as far as applying to a top program; Neither will not having full time work experience and only having internships of which one was at a research laboratory (so doesn't count for much in the business school world).

If you can look for work now, work for 2 years and apply I think you will be in a better position than applying while you are in the PhD program with the intent to drop out. That's going to be a tough sell in your essay 1.

p.s.- wanting better pay is not a good enough reason and frankly, you should expel that idea from your mind so you don't even say such a thing on a forum, even if you're anonymous. The pay is better in finance, but the lifestyle is crap and it's a dog eat dog world. Engineers have some of the best hours and some of the most nonthreatening albeit boring folks in any career (I would know I'm an engineer). I think some soul searching and career/industry research is in order before you even make any decisions.

jsmith54 · Answer

I'm an engineer/scientist as well, albeit one who is moving more towards the business development side of my industry. I know several engineers/scientists/technical people who have either switched to finance or debated doing so. Let me just say that if you just think that you should be paid more for you intellectual ability, there's still a lot about finance that you might not like. The long hours and intense competition are obvious and have been mentioned. One concern that I think sticks out to a lot of us techie types looking at the finance industry is how much a person's pedigree and interpersonal skills determine their career success and compensation. Having gone to Princeton is way more valuable to many finance employers than even your basic financial competency.

If you whole logic goes something like this:

1) I am smart.
2) Finance pays people based on how smart they are.
3) I will make a lot of money in finance.

then, I think that you will be sorely disappointed in how untrue #2 is.

Finance isn't the worst career in the world; it just has the unique property of attracting a huge number of smart people for all of the wrong reasons.

My advice would be to get to know a lot of people in the industry and look at their resumes or LinkedIn profiles. Getting some exposure to people's real career paths should be quite the eye-opener.

smileyface · Answer

Very important point you made about interpersonal skills. A lot of engineers, especially the types that go for PhDs tend to not have very good interpersonal skills. That's not to say Bernard doesnt. Anyway, it's not how smart you are but how well you can work with others that matters most in business. And fact is most engineers work by themselves.

As far as pedigree, I would have to disagree. Though having pedigree will help you break into finance and access certain very high profile gigs (e.g. KKR). I think performance counts more.

aveekguha · Answer

Your chances are excellent -- the PHDs in the MBA programs that I have seen all (rightly or wrongly) get somewhat preferred treatment by Finance firms, even Consulting companies. They are assumed to have analytical horsepower in spades and a level of perseverance/maturity given the rigors of a PHD program.

But I agree w/other posters on motivation. No lecture from me about making money, its your right, but the job will get old very fast if you don't like it. Having said that, one of the virtues of an MBA is the ability to adapt to different paths -- if you don't like Finance, there is always something else down the road.

Good luck!
Aveek Guha, President, www.mbadaycamp.com

shrouded1 · Answer

Hi

I am an engineering undergrad and I chose to forgo a phd offer (mine was from CMU ... Top 3 in computer science at the time) and go work for a bank instead for reasons similar to yours. The money is good indeed ! But please be careful of the path you chose to rake here, a phd from caltech is just as likely to get hired as an MBA from harvard into the bank. In fact in a lot of sales and trading roles it is pertinent to choose the former over the latter !

I am in a S&T role and more of my colleagues are phds than are mbas ... But truth be told most don't hold either degree.

Why ? A phd is too time consuming if you want to end up in finance, it makes sense mostly only if it fulfils a deep desire for research within you and you want to be a student for longer before joining the big bad rat race. I know people who have done the switch either way, phd to finance, and leaving a bank after a couple of years to do the phd .... It depends on what person you are
On the other hand an MBA is frankly too expensive and if you can get into a bank without one, that is ideal. So if your aim is solely to get into finance look for courses that are perhaps specialised enough to get you placed but maybe cheaper than an MBA .. Looking at your profile there is very little stopping a bank from hiring you, you don't need a $100,000 degree and then spend a couple of years working off your debt ... A masters from a place like lse, Oxford etc (sry I am more familiar with Europe) would be much cheaper and open the same avenues in financial services ...

I left my phd even before starting and that too after going through a similarly rigurous process as you ... So I bet it's not an obvious and easy decision for you to take ... But hey as I always say, if I want a phd I can start at 35, what I cannot do is this job at 35

Posted from my mobile device

bernardlevy · Answer

Wow awesome feedback.

Actually one of the main reasons (second only to money) for switching is that I feel like a job on Wall Street would better utilize my skills than a pure engineering job. I have struggled mightily (relatively speaking) in my technical classes with a combination of a) studying a lot more than my peers b) getting old exams and solutions and c) getting my friends to help me. At the same time, I feel that my communication and social skills are top notch. I somehow believe that a career in finance would better utilize my combination of relatively decent technical ability and good communication and social skills.

bernardlevy · Answer

Another reason for my wanting to switch that I had not yet mentioned is that I believe I will struggle quite a bit through my PhD and take longer than is normal to finish. Given these difficulties, and the fact that I do not plan to pursue a career in pure engineering, why not switch?

smileyface · Answer

Most people struggle in top engineering phd programs not to mention Caltech which has a reputation of being one of the toughest engineering programs in the country. That said, I still think you wouldn't do as well as you'd like applying to business school without completing the phd and/or getting some years of fulltime work experience.

bernardlevy · Answer

smileyface, thanks for the quick reply. I apologize I am not able to post on here more frequently during the day. My professor is quite a hard-ass and would probably can me if he found out I was trying to pull this crap, hehe :-(

I do agree with your assessment that it would be a huge risk to make this switch now. This is one reason why I am considering the possibility of a) finishing the PhD as quickly as I can and then making the switch or b) quitting the PhD and getting some work experience before heading to business school. The problem with continuing with a PhD is that I would waste the next 4-6 years of my life (the prime of my life, at that) on struggling to acquire skills that I might someday never use. The thought of this simply terrifies me! The problem with working...is....the temporary loss of prestige I suppose. I worked mighty hard and got super lucky to get to where I am, and I kind of dont want to throw it all away for nothing.

MBAbot · Answer

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Engineering PhD switching to MBA Finance

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