Fin Aid, R1 vs R2 and Visas

Question

Hello,

A quick question to see if there's anyone can help. Feel free to tell me to tell me if you think the answers are there in the forums already and I'm just not looking hard enough.

The reason I mention these three different things in the title (financial aid, application rounds and visas) is that they all seem to be closely connected.

1. Coming from a non-profit background I don't have a great deal in the way of savings. My initial strategy here was to shoot a bit below myself in terms of finding a school, hope to excel and be offered a nice financial aid package (ideally something approaching full tuition) and then take loans to cover the remaining shortfall. If anyone has any thoughts on how realistic this is, or on which schools have particularly generous scholarship packages, please let me know.

2. Connected to this is the Visa process. As an international student (UK) looking to study in the US or Canada I'm quite concerned about the requirement to show sufficient proof of funds for the first year of study. If I am expected to do this before loans/scholarships apply then I simply won't be able to do it. Does anyone have relevant experience of this that they'd like to share?

3. Finally, as you may be able to tell, I haven't been able yet to do the amount of research that is necessary to make a really informed choice of where to apply. I am also doubtful that I will be able to do the necessary GMAT study to get the top score I need (to compensate as much as possible for lack of business experience and other weaknesses in profile), plus do the necessary research on schools, plus do all the work required to polish an excellent application that stands a chance of receiving a scholarship. On that basis, I'm starting to think I should wait for round 2 (initially I was looking at a Nov 15th round 1 deadline, e.g. for Rotman and Stern), but I am concerned that many schools are more likely to give scholarships to round 1 applicants. I know it's hard to generalise without specifying schools, but again if anyone has any comments on that I'd really appreciate it.

Hope all are well, and see you around for some nice chat about nasty quant problems in the next few weeks

Matt

Jeanette · Answer

At this point in the game, you're probably better waiting until next year to apply. You haven't even studied for the GMAT yet, and that's a process that usually takes people around 2-3 months to do, and then if needed another month to retake. You don't HAVE to spend that much time on the GMAT, but at least take a practice test to see where you stand. If you're not scoring over 700+, you need to study -- especially if your goal is a scholarship.

Applying "below yourself" to get financial aid is a strategy, but until you've taken the test, you don't know where that level is.

Furthermore, from what I've seen, a super high GMAT is more important for scholarships than it is for admission.

As someone from a non-business background, you actually have a pretty nifty asset at your hands that COULD make it easier for you to get in. Show how you're a leader, how your past background led you to an MBA, and be passionate about it and you're probably in a better position than a run-of-the-mill investment banker.

Last, you haven't spent enough time thinking about schools. The schools vary a LOT, and fit is important both for getting in as well as how much you enjoy your time there. For example, you come from a Nonprofit background. Yale SOM is a great place to look if you're thinking about staying in that sector.

---
To be more succinct: even waiting until Round 2 probably will not give you enough time to put together your most competitive application.

thisguy310 · Answer

I would probably second Jeanette's information. 
If anything though, practice going through the application process this year so you're ready for next year.

staind · Answer

Regarding your second question, you only need to show proof of funds when you apply for a visa which is after you've been admitted to a school, been offered any potential scholarship and have accepted admission to the school. The school where you decide to go will send you an I-20 form with the estimate expenses for the year minus any scholarships awarded and you have to show the immigration folks how you expect to cover those expenses before they decide to let you in to the country as a student.

mattdrummer · Answer

Thanks all for some thoughtful and honest replies.

Jeanette :
I think I have a fair idea where I'll end up in the GMAT, but of course it's hard to pin it down with any kind of accuracy. I've booked the test for Nov 2nd and am part-way through my preparation. I posted another thread on it here, which shows where I'm at with it:

(tried to post link but it won't let me as I've not been a member long enough! It's called 'study strategy refocus' in the main GMAT forum)
 
I will take one of the established practice tests soon anyway, maybe today even, to get a better sense of where I stand. In a sense though that wasn't too crucial to my planning. In terms of Round 1, I was operating on the assumption that I'd get the score I wanted, as only on that basis is Round 1 remotely feasible. If I don't get that score then the decision is made for me at that point. The more relevant thing I think is how much it would reduce my chances of getting a good score by simultaneously doing school research, essay preparation, etc. (and of course vice-versa).

I definitely take your main point, which as I understand it is that if I want to do myself justice this is all too rushed. I should mention that I have done a bit more school research than I think my post lets on - I was in a rush when I wrote that so it perhaps comes off a little bit flippant, but I have been thinking about this for a while in terms of fit and e.g. visited Sauder at U of British Columbia to sit in on a class over a year ago to get a feel for the quality at that level of school. But you're right there's much more I can and need to do, and the level of research I see some people on here doing has been a wake-up call in that regard. And the general point still stands that trying to do that level of research while studying for the GMAT with only just over a month til deadline is unlikely to work out well.

Thanks for the encouragement on my background, and for the comment on the relevance of GMAT to scholarships - that's very interesting. Do you have any thoughts on the R1 vs R2 scholarships question? It may be that the Rounds I'm comparing are Round 2 this year and Round 1 next, but it's still something I'd like to know more about.

On whether to wait til next year - well, that's a tricky one for me. I accept that a R2 application this year still may not fully do myself justice, but I have to balance that against my personal and career goals. Timing is very important and an MBA of course is not always going to be the best solution depending on what other opportunities are around. I feel that 2011 would be a good moment for me to do an MBA for a number of reasons, but by the time I get to looking at applying to start in 2012 that balance may have shifted. That may sound odd to some and seem to indicate a lack of commitment to the process, but I don't think that's the case at all. It's just being realistic about the role an MBA can play in my life, the kind of professional opportunities that are available without an MBA at any given moment, and also the time frames I have to achieve career and personal goals. If I go for it, it'll be because I'm sure it's worth it at that time. But I needn't presume that in any given scenario a year from now it will still be worth it. In any case, I don't see the harm in pushing myself to get as close as I can to being ready to submit this year and taking it from there.

thisguy310: 
Thanks for taking the time to comment - your seconding of Jeanette's thoughts is certainly noted. I think you're right that it's good to go through the process this year, regardless of whether or not I finally submit.

staind  (based on the band?!):
Thanks for addressing that part. What concerned me was the International Student Supplement on the Stern application that states:

For me the answer is... no. If I can't include loans and scholarships for Visa purposes then there's no way that I can show that I can meet the required expenses, because I can't. What you're saying makes perfect sense (how else could most people get through the process if loans/scholarships don't apply?) and is reassuring, but I'm struggling to reconcile it with this statement from Stern. Any thoughts on that would be most welcome.

Anyway, thanks again, it really is appreciated.

Matt

mattdrummer · Answer

On the Visa thing... looking at it again, is the key word there 'potential'? If you have confirmed loans and scholarships is that the difference?

staind · Answer

Yeah, what Stern is saying is that when you apply for the visa you cannot consider *potential* sources. However, by the time you apply you should already have your loans and scholarships sorted.

mattdrummer · Answer

Okay, makes sense. Thanks!

Fin Aid, R1 vs R2 and Visas

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