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For many people, household labor remains demanding even if

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For many people, household labor remains demanding even if  [#permalink]

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New post 31 Jul 2007, 11:44
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For many people, household labor remains demanding even if able to afford household appliances their grandparents would find a miracle.

(A) even if able to afford household appliances their grandparents would find a miracle

(B) despite being able to afford household appliances their grandparents would find a miracle

(C) even if they can afford household appliances their grandparents would have found miraculous

(D) although they could afford household appliances their grandparents would find miraculous

(E) even if they are able to afford household appliances which would have been a miracle to their grandparents
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New post 11 Mar 2011, 09:56
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Between “would find” and “would have found” the difference lies in that, “would find” denotes a definite future possibility, but one that has still not started to exist, while “would have found” points to something that started in the past and that might well carry into the future. Hence given that it is grandparents who are involved, “would have found” fits in more aptly than “would find”.

Hence we have to drop choices A, B and D. Between C and E, the passive expression “they are able” is an inferior one to the more dynamic and active “they can”. C is the decisive winner.
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For many people, household labor remains demanding even if  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Aug 2009, 11:08
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I'm copying this directly from my notes, shoot back if you need more information, I'll search it. I hope somebody has a better explanation

# Even if vs Even though

1. Even if - means whether or not and has to do with the conditions that may apply. Even if is used as a conjunction.(even though cannot act as a conjunction).
1. Even if I had time, I wouldn't watch that programme.
2. Even if Mark told the truth, I wouldn't believe him.
2. Even though - Even though means despite the fact that and is a more emphatic version of though and although. It is primarily concesive
1. Even though I had time, I didn't watch that programme
2. Even though Mark told the truth, I didn't believe him.
3. The differences can be appreciated in this sentence
1. I'm going out, even if it rains
2. I'm going out, even though it's going to rain
1. We do not know whether it will rain or not in (1) so we use even if
2. In (2) we know that it is going to rain but we are going out anyway
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New post 21 Aug 2007, 05:43
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C it is.
'can' is concise than 'able to'.
'could' changes the meaning of the sentence to a 'possibility' while the original sentence implies 'ability'.
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Re: For many people, household labor remains demanding even if  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Sep 2012, 21:36
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jitgoel wrote:
whichscore wrote:
For many people, household labor remains demanding even if able to afford household
appliances their grandparents would find a miracle
.
(A) even if able to afford household appliances their grandparents would find a miracle
(B) despite being able to afford household appliances their grandparents would find a
miracle
(C) even if they can afford household appliances their grandparents would have found
miraculous
(D) although they could afford household appliances their grandparents would find
miraculous
(E) even if they are able to afford household appliances which would have been a miracle
to their grandparents


Can some one explain me they and their (pronoun) reflect to People or to the labor?
Allways pay attention to the logical antecedent for the pronoun. Here they/their definitely refer to people. If it refers to labor it does not make any sense (labor dont have grandparents). Ex- The car hits the tree and its engine is damaged. (Here it refers to car, and not tree. Tree dont have engine)
How one can find out tense problem is there in the sentence?


Clause 1: For many people, household labor remains demanding (Independent) Tense is present
Clause 2: even if able to afford household appliances their grandparents would find a miracle. (Dependent with contrast) the subject "they" is misssing here.

(A) even if able to afford household appliances their grandparents would find a miracle. Subject is missing- dont know who can afford
(B) despite being able to afford household appliances their grandparents would find a miracle. Subject is missing- Dont now about the subject.
(C) even if they can afford household appliances their grandparents would have found miraculous. Correct Choice- Usage of Can (present tense). The main/Principal clause is in present.
(D) although they could afford household appliances their grandparents would find miraculous. Wrong tense used "could"
(E) even if they are able to afford household appliances which would have been a miracle to their grandparents. Usage of which without comma
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Re: For many people, household labor remains demanding even if  [#permalink]

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New post 28 Aug 2016, 09:45
For non-native English speakers like me, what should one be aware of to get this kind of question right?

I was wiggling my head around

1. "if-then" structure - and realized it is not conditional sentence
2. No pronoun ambiguity.
3. Not other grammatical rules that I learned helped me .

How to tackle these kind of questions on the real GMAT?
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Re: For many people, household labor remains demanding even if  [#permalink]

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New post 07 Feb 2017, 06:33
whichscore wrote:
For many people, household labor remains demanding even if able to afford household
appliances their grandparents would find a miracle
.
(A) even if able to afford household appliances their grandparents would find a miracle
(B) despite being able to afford household appliances their grandparents would find a
miracle
(C) even if they can afford household appliances their grandparents would have found
miraculous
(D) although they could afford household appliances their grandparents would find
miraculous
(E) even if they are able to afford household appliances which would have been a miracle
to their grandparents


beautiful question.
remember conditional sentences.
to say that a non-fact action is likely to happen in present or future, we use "would do". if I were you, I would do this job.
"would do" is impossible to happen because I can not be you. that is why "non fact action is likely to happen".
to say a non fact action is likely to happen in the past, we use "would have done". if I had met her yesterday, I would have shake hands with her". I did not meet her yesterday, so I can not shake hands.

our sentence is the same. in C, "their parent would have found miraculous" is used to say about non fact action which is certain to happen in the past. but this action can not happen because grandparent can not have the appliances .

to expanse this point, I say about "could have done". to say that a non fact action can happen, but is not certain to happen we use "could have done". similarly, we can say" I can do this job. I will do this job" to present a possibility or a likeliness of doing this job.

is this from gmatprep? I suspect because it is possible that there grandparent is still alive and the non fact action is in present time and, so, "would do" is still correct.

this sentence can be considered a conditional sentence to which we are farmiliar.
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New post 20 Apr 2017, 02:45
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Hi daagh, mikemcgarry, sayantanc2k !

IMO, all options are wrong due to some reason that I mention below!, so please check whether my reasoning is right or wrong! Many thanks!

For many people, household labor remains demanding even if able to afford household appliances their grandparents would find a miracle.

(A) even if able to afford household appliances their grandparents would find a miracle

1. lack of subject after even if


(B) despite being able to afford household appliances their grandparents would find a miracle

1. lack of relative pronoun (which, that) between household appliances and their grandparents would find a miracle, therefore a run-on sentence.

2. appliances is plural, while a miracle is singular, so there is no agreement between them.


(C) even if they can afford household appliances their grandparents would have found miraculous

1. lack of relative pronoun (which, that) between household appliances and their grandparents would find a miracle, therefore a run-on sentence.


(D) although they could afford household appliances their grandparents would find miraculous

1. lack of conjuntion between household appliances and their grandparents would find a miracle, therefore a run-on sentence.

2. there is no need for constrast


(E) even if they are able to afford household appliances which would have been a miracle to their grandparents

1. lack of comma before which

2. appliances is plural, while a miracle is singular, so there is no agreement between them.
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New post 20 Apr 2017, 05:03
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For many people, household labor remains demanding even if able to afford household appliances their grandparents would find a miracle.

(A) even if able to afford household appliances their grandparents would find a miracle
(B) despite being able to afford household appliances their grandparents would find a miracle
(C) even if they can afford household appliances their grandparents would have found miraculous
(D) although they could afford household appliances their grandparents would find miraculous
(E) even if they are able to afford household appliances which would have been a miracle to their grandparents

leanhdung

The very foundation GMAT is the guidance from OG and GMAT Prep topics through their validity and veracity. If we do not trust them, we will only be going round and round like a bee that has lost its way. On the face of it, I will vouch that there is a definitive and correct answer to this GMAT Prep question.

Now, perhaps it will be interesting to know why you call A, B, and D as run-ons vis-a-vis the definition of the run-ons as sentences in which two or more independent clauses (i.e. complete sentences) are joined without an appropriate conjunction or mark of punctuation. The run-on one finds mostly in GMAT is the comma - splice in which the comma takes on the job of joining the two ICs...
It will be satisfying if we can know what the two ICs are herein and how they are improperly joined. It may be noted that there is no comma used anywhere in these three choices.

IMO, the more substantive route to solve this would be to sift whether ' would find' or 'would have found' is correct. There is no point in saying that the grandparents would find them a miracle in the coming future days. We must attribute their perception with what they would have felt in their on their own contemporaneous times. That is the reason, A, B, and D could be dropped in one go.
Now left with C and E, the latter can be faulted for using a poor substitute 'are able to' to means just 'can' and using 'which' without the customary comma. You may also add to this the charge that it is unnecessarily passive. I feel E will fly in the face of the more dynamic C.
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New post 20 Apr 2017, 06:12
daagh wrote:
For many people, household labor remains demanding even if able to afford household appliances their grandparents would find a miracle.

(A) even if able to afford household appliances their grandparents would find a miracle
(B) despite being able to afford household appliances their grandparents would find a miracle
(C) even if they can afford household appliances their grandparents would have found miraculous
(D) although they could afford household appliances their grandparents would find miraculous
(E) even if they are able to afford household appliances which would have been a miracle to their grandparents

leanhdung

The very foundation GMAT is the guidance from OG and GMAT Prep topics through their validity and veracity. If we do not trust them, we will only be going round and round like a bee that has lost its way. On the face of it, I will vouch that there is a definitive and correct answer to this GMAT Prep question.

Now, perhaps it will be interesting to know why you call A, B, and D as run-ons vis-a-vis the definition of the run-ons as sentences in which two or more independent clauses (i.e. complete sentences) are joined without an appropriate conjunction or mark of punctuation. The run-on one finds mostly in GMAT is the comma - splice in which the comma takes on the job of joining the two ICs...
It will be satisfying if we can know what the two ICs are herein and how they are improperly joined. It may be noted that there is no comma used anywhere in these three choices.

IMO, the more substantive route to solve this would be to sift whether ' would find' or 'would have found' is correct. There is no point in saying that the grandparents would find them a miracle in the coming future days. We must attribute their perception with what they would have felt in their on their own contemporaneous times. That is the reason, A, B, and D could be dropped in one go.
Now left with C and E, the latter can be faulted for using a poor substitute 'are able to' to means just 'can' and using 'which' without the customary comma. You may also add to this the charge that it is unnecessarily passive. I feel E will fly in the face of the more dynamic C.


Yeah. I agree with you on the use of would do and would have found!

Let go back to clarify my doubt about run-on sentence.

You mentioned definition of the run-ons as sentences in which two or more independent clauses (i.e. complete sentences) are joined without an appropriate conjunction or mark of punctuation.

In option (C) even if they can afford household appliances their grandparents would have found miraculous, we have two indepedent clauses: even if they can afford household appliances and their grandparents would have found miraculous and there is not any conjuntion between them.

Please explain why this sentence is not considered a run-on one on the basis of your above definition of run-on sentence!
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New post 20 Apr 2017, 06:50
Yeah daagh I agree with you on the difference between would find and would have found.

Let go back to clarify my doubt about the run-on sentence.

I got it: in option C, even if they can afford household appliances is dependent clause and their grandparents would have found miraculous is independent clause.

I usually observe that when the dependent clause comes first, then there is a comma after dependent clause. For example: Although it was raining, we went to the movies.

Bacause this is the first time I see the structure: Even if clause 1 clause 2 (there is no comma), I think sentence structure in C is weird :). In my reasoning, if C have a comma between even if they can afford household appliances and their grandparents would have found miraculous, i will choice C

So, in my example, if we remove comma, the sentence becomes Although it was raining we went to the movies, is the new sentence right?
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New post 20 Apr 2017, 10:43
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C) For many people, household labor remains demanding even if they can afford household appliances their grandparents would have found miraculous
It is true that when the dependent clause is placed before the main clause, then you require a comma to separate them. However, if the dependent clause is placed after the main clause, then we don't use the comma between them.

The actual way you have to parse this sentence is: For many people, household labor remains demanding even if they can afford household appliances (that) their grandparents would have found miraculous. That (in brackets) is elided and understood.

Therefore, you have an introductory phrase (For many people), then the main IC (household labor remains demanding) and then the dependent clause (even if they can afford household appliances (that) their grandparents would have found miraculous). Now you can see why the comma is not used in this sentence.

Although it was raining, we went to the movies: In this sentence, if you do not put the comma, then it will be wrong. Now reverse the DC/IC roles and make the sentence IC/DC, then you do not have to use the comma. -- We went to the movies although it was raining ---
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New post 20 Apr 2017, 16:41
daagh wrote:
C) For many people, household labor remains demanding even if they can afford household appliances their grandparents would have found miraculous
It is true that when the dependent clause is placed before the main clause, then you require a comma to separate them. However, if the dependent clause is placed after the main clause, then we don't use the comma between them.

The actual way you have to parse this sentence is: For many people, household labor remains demanding even if they can afford household appliances (that) their grandparents would have found miraculous. That (in brackets) is elided and understood.

Therefore, you have an introductory phrase (For many people), then the main IC (household labor remains demanding) and then the dependent clause (even if they can afford household appliances (that) their grandparents would have found miraculous). Now you can see why the comma is not used in this sentence.

Although it was raining, we went to the movies: In this sentence, if you do not put the comma, then it will be wrong. Now reverse the DC/IC roles and make the sentence IC/DC, then you do not have to use the comma. -- We went to the movies although it was raining ---


Many thanks for your enthusiastic replies daagh ;)

Yeah, now i understand why we do not need a comma :P

The only remaining doubt is whether the function of that in the sentence even if they can afford household appliances (that) their grandparents would have found miraculous is relative pronoun ?

In this sentence, is that a reletive pronoun that funtions as the object of this sentence ?

So, can we elide relative pronoun that in cases it funtions as the object of a sentence?
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New post 21 Jul 2017, 20:53
For many people, household labor remains demanding even if able to afford household appliances their grandparents would find a miracle.

(A) even if able to afford household appliances their grandparents would find a miracle

(B) despite being able to afford household appliances their grandparents would find a miracle

(C) even if they can afford household appliances their grandparents would have found miraculous

(D) although they could afford household appliances their grandparents would find miraculous

(E) even if they are able to afford household appliances which would have been a miracle to their grandparents
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New post 24 Jan 2019, 07:51
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In the egmat chapter of conditional verbs, it is mentioned that if X then Y clause if mentioned in simple present tense, then the then clause will be either in simple present tense or in simple future.
however, in this question, option C is correct even though it uses simple present for the if clause and past perfect for then clause.
Please explain it in detail here.
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Re: For many people, household labor remains demanding even if  [#permalink]

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New post 04 Apr 2019, 05:08
AjiteshArun Can you please explain the POE to solve this question and how the if else condition is working here
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New post 27 Jun 2019, 13:06
A — we need a subject after “even if” and A doesn’t really have it..

B - incorrect usage of “being” / being can be used either as a gerund or as this form—>- are being evacuated, is being done etc etc

D — incorrect tense.. HL *remains* demanding although they *could* .... doesn’t make any sense

E—- this is a weird one really ..’which’, if used a pronoun used to refer animals/things, has to have a comma before it.. this is not a major issue though. I think the main issue with this option is subject- verb error..appliances—- a miracle— doesn’t really make any sense..


C is the only sane option.. HL *remains*— even if they *can*

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Re: For many people, household labor remains demanding even if  [#permalink]

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New post 20 Sep 2019, 05:22
Can anyone please help me out?

what is 'they' referring to?
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Re: For many people, household labor remains demanding even if  [#permalink]

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New post 20 Sep 2019, 06:44
NoMatterWhat wrote:
what is 'they' referring to?

they refers to many people. In fact, that is the only eligible antecedent of they.

p.s. Our book EducationAisle Sentence Correction Nirvana discusses Pronoun "eligible antecedents", their application and examples in significant detail. If you or someone is interested, PM me your email-id; I can mail the corresponding section.
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Re: For many people, household labor remains demanding even if  [#permalink]

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New post 20 Sep 2019, 10:41
daagh wrote:
Between “would find” and “would have found” the difference lies in that, “would find” denotes a definite future possibility, but one that has still not started to exist, while “would have found” points to something that started in the past and that might well carry into the future. Hence given that it is grandparents who are involved, “would have found” fits in more aptly than “would find”.

Hence we have to drop choices A, B and D. Between C and E, the passive expression “they are able” is an inferior one to the more dynamic and active “they can”. C is the decisive winner.


I agree with your explanation. It is all about "would find" or "would have found", if a person gets it right then the question can be cracked within a minute.
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