Got 750 today (46Q, 47V)-Now What

Question

Hello everyone,

First of all, though I was a silent lurker, thank you to all of those who keep this board active. Sometime it was just nice to know that I wasn't the only one obsessing.

I took my first GMAT today, and I am pretty thrilled with my 750 score. I did not intend on going straight into grad school (graduating this May), but as the job market for marketing majors is less than stellar I was analyzing all of my options. My favorite professor called me in to her office about a month ago and asked me if I would consider applying to my current University's revised MBA program, and proceeded to describe the program in detail. The new program has a stronger focus on sustainable business practices (my area of interest), and as the program has gone through a complete revision, the first year will have a very small (12-15) entering class. All of this sounded great to me, so I began preparing for the GMAT in earnest.

I took my first practice test 3 weeks ago, and got a 650, but almost all of the ground that I needed to cover was in quant, so that was what I focused my studies on. I ended up scoring significantly higher than my highest practice test (720), and I am very pleased, but this has put a bit of a kink in my plans. I was assuming that I would score high 600's low 700's and get my MBA at my current University, and that I would then study REALLY hard and retake the gmat in a year or two to get a score that could get me admitted into a marketing or business and public policy phd somewhere. Now that I have the 750, I don't know if going to such a low ranked mba program is going to damage my academic resume. The problem is, it is too late for me to apply to any other MBA programs, or to any phd programs (those apps take a year to complete!) and I don't have any interesting job prospects lined up in the meantime.

So, do I go to my unranked University's MBA program, or do nothing for a year? I strongly feel that completing MBA coursework would complement my current academic weaknesses (quantitative, only one really good letter of rec from a research-active professor), but I don't want to shoot myself in the foot either.

Thoughts? Sorry this was so long!

ThomasD · Answer

First of all congrats! How about working for a year, or maybe even 2 to strengthen your profile for some of the elite schools?

epercy19 · Answer

I was initially going to try to work somewhere for a while, but the jobs just aren't there. I feel like I have built up a pretty great resume during my time in undergrad (selected top marketing graduate, first business student to receive an undergraduate research fellowship, solid gpa, tons of campus involvement including leadership positions) but the I was told I was "overqualified" for two internships I applied for and all of the other jobs I could survive off of in my field require 4-5 years of experience. I apply for them anyway, but no dice. It just seems like a massive catch-22 I can't work my way out of.

ThomasD · Answer

So here is one thing I think you need to straighten out for yourself first - it is an inconsistency I am spotting in your thought process: So if you had not scored that high on the GMAT you would have been perfectly happy with your school? And now that you have scored high, you are not, right? Well, then you said this: To me this doesn't make much sense together with the above statement. Again, to me this does not look like a low profile school applicant to begin with even with a 630 GMAT. Sure you do not have WE yet, but among the 'youngsters' going to B-school you seem to have a top profile.....so I am seriously questioning whether you ever really wanted to attend B-school at your current school. I'd give that some more thought and that just may eliminate one of your choices ;-)

Sorry if this has a harsh undertone, not really meant that way, I am just a direct person. And hey why do you want a MBA when you ultimately want a (possibly) business PhD ??

epercy19 · Answer

LOL no worries about the tone or directness - if I wanted someone to sugar coat it for me I would have talked to my Mom or sorority sisters. Part of the reason that I think I need to pursue an MBA is build up a more solid mathematical background before applying for a phd - I spent a lot of time and effort during my undergrad taking courses in special topics in business, women's studies and poli sci, and not doing any more math than was required.

I laughed because your confusion over whether or not I want to attend grad school at my current University mirrors my own. I originally considered applying to be the first student to be accepted into a new phd program here, and ended up chaning my mind about doing a phd here. I think my decision is going to come down to what kind of scholarship package I am offered, unless I hear from someone in the "business phd world" that having an mba from such a low ranked school is going to hurt me in my future application. I like the focus of the program here, I could complete it in 16 months and this University does provide a tremendous amount of access to resources...

So that's what I am thinking for now. Thanks for the input, and for pointing out the inconsistencies!

Buttermaker · Answer

What quantitative courses would you take during the MBA program? Are they intended to prepare you for a PhD or is it going to be little more than modeling in Excel? Do you have any details on the course outline, readings etc? What research opportunities would be available to you during the MBA? Would these still be available if you were not an enrolled student?

EDIT: Also, which schools are you targeting for your eventual PhD applications? Which branch of marketing? What are your research interests?

EDIT: Also, which schools are you targeting for your eventual PhD applications? Which branch of marketing? What are your research interests?

bb · Answer

First of all, congratulations!

Tough situation. On one hand - you can get into a lower ranked program now vs. looking for a job, getting something very low level, and not getting into top 20 a year from now due to a weak work experience. Let me make it easy for you - getting an MBA without work experience is going to suck - your classmates wont' respect you; you won't have any skills/experience/hooks/connections after graduation or for the internship. You will be much better off working a few years and getting your feet wet.

It sounds like you are pretty smart and good with things - 750 is not easy to get; you should be able to get a decent job and work towards a career. Afterall an MBA is for those who want to further their career, not start

(though that's changing).

lonewolf · Answer

I agree with BB here. Definitely get some work experience on your resume before applying for MBA. You already got a 750 so I am sure you are smart enough to get a decent job.

You will then be set for a great resume and apply to some top MBA schools

shadow · Answer

hey

first, congrats on getting a great score and on beating your practice scores by such a large margin

second, i just wanted to share a few things i learned in my own process to b school (i'm still an applicant, and a younger one, although slightly older than you).

the MBA and the PhD are largely incongruent with each other. the MBA, although it does give you some mathematical background, is really more about teaching a broad selection of skills and improving your marketability and leadership abilities for a future position in industry. the PhD is largely an academic degree, used primarily in research and teaching.

getting the MBA solely for the math skills would not be a good investment of your time or money IMO. a masters in mathematics or something related might be better, but it would be hard to say without knowing what you want to ultimately get your PhD in.

if you're 100% set about getting your PhD, you might be better off looking at alternative positions if you can't find a good job (and believe me, i know it's still very tough to land a job). maybe working for a nonprofit, or working at your university in a department relevant to what you ultimately want to do.

also, consider posting this question in the admissions consultants subforum to see what sort of feedback you get from them. good luck

tarun · Answer

Congrats.

epercy19 · Answer

The course outline for the MBA program is:

Fall 1:

•Financial and Managerial Accounting
•Quantitative and Research Methods
•Managerial Economics
•Organizational Behavior and Theory
•Business Law, Corporate Social Responsibility, & Ethics
•Negotiations & Communications

Spring:

•Applied Financial Management
•Marketing Management
•Innovation and Entrepreneurial Management
•Decision Sciences and Systems Analysis

Summer:

Students will participate in Experiential Learning Projects administered from the campus. Students will have access to COB facilities to perform analysis and develop recommendations, although it is expected that the students will spend substantial amounts of time on site at the sponsoring clients' facilities.

Fall 2:

•Capstone Strategy Course with sustainability overtones
•9 credit hours of graduate-level electives in- or outside the College of Business

I am currently researching the opportunity to secure money to fund a GA position(which is not present in the MBA program) through the Academic Affairs Office here at the University. I could then take my GA through Academic Affairs and use that position to assist oany professor i wish, provided they are interested in having a "free" GA assist in their research. This opporutnity does require that I am a full time student.

As far as schools and research opportunities for the phd, I conducted independent undergraduate research on the use of microexpressions in marketing, but I would be most intersted in pursuing research in the areas of sustainable business practices and how they are effectively marketed to consumers and /or business and public policy as they relate to sustainable business practices. I don't have defined targets yet, but would prefer the California/Washington/Oregon schools because I think that they generally have faculty who are more inclined to pursue research in sustainable business practices, and I am kind of a midwest/west coast girl.

My University is accredited AACSB too, in case that makes a difference.

Buttermaker · Answer

These would be useful. :-D

How quantitative do you anticipate your work at PhD level will be? I couldn't really tell from the description of your research interests. If it's going to be mostly behavioural, then doing well in a sequence of doctoral level statistics for the social sciences courses should allay all fears of your quantitative background. The managerial economics course could also help if you need to take a basic applied micro course as part of your PhD program's GPR. If you're not targeting an elite program, then I don't think your school's name (coupled with what I assume to be the relative anonymity of your professors) should be too much of a problem provided your profile is strong elsewhere. If you keep up your research activity and add a publication, you'd have a shot at some good schools. The thing is, unless you want to completely rule out attending a higher ranked or more disciplinary focused program, you might be better served acquiring an academically oriented master's degree in a cognate or parent discipline to marketing and public policy. There aren't many options available in the US but you could find something useful in Canada or the UK. Unfortunately, most deadlines have passed but it's not too late for an application to a place like the LSE. If you can wait a year, you could look at Columbia and Chicago (QMSS and MAPSS respectively). I've heard rumours that Chicago doesn't treat their students all that well though so you may want to look into that if you're considering them. I think it would be a good idea to research your target PhD programs immediately. If they're lower ranked but fit your interests then sticking with your current university, especially if they give you a full ride, should be fine. If you're targeting Stanford GSB or Haas, you may want to look elsewhere.

Buttermaker · Answer

Also, it's unfortunate but you may need to bump up your GMAT quant score to around 49.

nsp007 · Answer

Congrats !!

FlimFlam · Answer

I think the question here is what do you want to do long term? The MBA is a professional degree- thats a whole different ball of wax from an academic degree. Im not sure why the MBA has even entered into the discussion here as it sounds like you are more interested in pure research. Ive had a couple of MBA courses before as part of my masters degree, and they more assuredly are NOT cutting-edge research focused. If anything I wonder if an MBA would damage your academic resume if you are looking to move into pure research and teaching at the university level (eventually).

I dont think doing the MBA right away is a good thing, especially if its for the reason that there "arent any good jobs". There werent any good jobs either when I graduated undergrad in 1999 or grad in 2002 coming out of a no-name program (anthro and econ respectively). There never are until you start building up a network and that takes time. Having the work and life experience to understand arguments and ask questions relating to business issues you have personally observed or experienced is invaluable for getting the most out of the program, and contributing the most as well. And after two years, then what? You are in an even greater Catch-22- back in the same job pool as recent undergrads, but now grossly overqualified in the eyes of entry-level hiring managers, and untested in the eyes of MBA hiring managers. Learning from a book is not the same as doing. If you are trying to plug quant holes, then why not take a fifth year of school and load up on stats, calc, and even data mining capabilities? Or go part time and work part time?

That 750 is good for 5 years- have you spoken to a trusted adviser about your ambitions? I would forgo applying to the MBA now and take some time to fully find out where you want to go and why and whats necessary. Also- learn to be skeptical about higher education. Remember  always  that higher education is first and foremost a business- a revamped MBA makes me wonder what was going on before, and Im not sure I would want to be a guinea pig for a new revised program that hasnt had all the kinks worked out yet.

Finally if you take a year out to do the PhD application then please dont look upon it as "doing nothing". Take the time to do as much as you can- take courses that would help your application, find a job and do volunteer work, come up with side projects to pursue on your own, etc. Ensure you have the desire and stamina to finish the PhD and that its what you really want- please read Chronicle of Higher Education for in-depth understanding of issues facing faculty and TAs throughout the country.

karankan1 · Answer

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Got 750 today (46Q, 47V)-Now What

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