GMAT Question of the Day - Daily to your Mailbox; hard ones only

It is currently 23 May 2019, 08:35

Close

GMAT Club Daily Prep

Thank you for using the timer - this advanced tool can estimate your performance and suggest more practice questions. We have subscribed you to Daily Prep Questions via email.

Customized
for You

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

Track
Your Progress

every week, we’ll send you an estimated GMAT score based on your performance

Practice
Pays

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

Not interested in getting valuable practice questions and articles delivered to your email? No problem, unsubscribe here.

Close

Request Expert Reply

Confirm Cancel

Judges will select 5 finalists from the 7 contestants entered in a sin

  new topic post reply Question banks Downloads My Bookmarks Reviews Important topics  
Author Message
TAGS:

Hide Tags

 
VP
VP
avatar
Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 1394
Location: Germany
Judges will select 5 finalists from the 7 contestants entered in a sin  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 09 Apr 2005, 01:53
3
18
00:00
A
B
C
D
E

Difficulty:

  75% (hard)

Question Stats:

44% (01:34) correct 56% (01:51) wrong based on 420 sessions

HideShow timer Statistics

Judges will select 5 finalists from the 7 contestants entered in a singing competition. The judges will then rank the contestants and award prizes to the 3 highest ranked contestants: a blue ribbon for first place, a red ribbon for second place, and a yellow ribbon for third place. How many different arrangements of prize-winners are possible?

A. 10
B. 21
C. 210
D. 420
E. 1,260

_________________
If your mind can conceive it and your heart can believe it, have faith that you can achieve it.
Most Helpful Expert Reply
Math Expert
User avatar
V
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 55266
Re: Judges will select 5 finalists from the 7 contestants entered in a sin  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 20 Mar 2012, 13:35
10
5
Zem wrote:
Judges will select 5 finalists from the 7 contestants entered in a singing competition. The judges will then rank the contestants and award prizes to the 3 highest ranked contestants: a blue ribbon for first place, a red ribbon for second place, and a yellow ribbon for third place. How many different arrangements of prize-winners are possible?

A. 10
B. 21
C. 210
D. 420
E. 1,260


Intermediary step of selecting 5 finalists first is just to confuse us: any group of 5 is equally likely to be selected, so we can skip this part and directly calculate ways to arrange 3 contestants out of 7: \(C^3_7*3!=210\).

Answer: C.
_________________
Most Helpful Community Reply
Senior Manager
Senior Manager
avatar
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 394
Location: Phoenix
Re: Judges will select 5 finalists from the 7 contestants entered in a sin  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 11 Apr 2005, 15:32
6
1
Zem wrote:
Judges will select 5 finalists from the 7 contestants entered in a
singing competition. The judges will then rank the contestants
and award prizes to the 3 highest ranked contestants: a blue
ribbon for first place, a red ribbon for second place, and a
<a style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=22&k=yellow%20ribbon" onmouseover="window.status='yellow ribbon'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">yellow ribbon</a> for third place. How many different arrangements
of prize-winners are possible?

A 10
B 21
C 210
D 420
E 1,260


Let me pitch in here with some of my views. Let me know if you agree/disagree or want to add/subtract to it.

There are two ways of looking at this problem -

1. Going strictly by the words of the problem.
2. Going by what they do in the problem situation.

Lets discuss them one by one.

1. The problem asks "How many different arrangements of prize-winners are possible". Now its obvious that there are three prize winners out of a total of 7 contestents. And arrangement means Permutation. Going by that, the answer is simply P(7,3) = 7!/4! = 5x6x7 = 210.

2. They do the math in a little more complex way. They choose and choose and choose within the choice. Please note that these values differ.

Choosing A+B from A+B+C and then choosing A from A+B.

[C(A+B+C, A+B) x C(A+B, A)] = (A+B+C)!/A! B! C! ..........eqn (P)

AND

Choosing A from A+B+C.
[C(A+B+C, A)] = (A+B+C)!/A! (B+C)! .............................eqn (Q)

While the objective is the same in both cases, results are different. The reason is important:

It is the ways in which we make the selection. And the ways in which the selection is made isn't universally unique - it depends on the sample set and the sampled size.

This looks a little difficult to digest - especially since we've almost learnt to believe that the number of ways of making a selection are universally unique (and considering how the laws of probability are linked to them, the probability is also constant). This however isn't true. Consider this:

We have a box containing 5 red and 5 black socks. We take out two socks. What is the probability that both of them are of the same color?

1. Take them out one after another, without replacing.
2. Take 2 out at a time.

Bet the answers are different.

Let me give a simpler example, not of probability but of permutations and combinations.

In how many ways can be take 2 fruits out of a basket of 5 fruits.
1. Taking out both together, or
2. Taking out one after another, without replacement.

The first is C(5, 2) = 10.
The second is 5x4 = 20.

Its important to note in this problem that the second case implicitly considers permutation, instead of combination.

So in the question posed, we have this difference.

When we consider the top 3 prize winners only, we ignore completely the 4th, 5th 6th and 7th rankers.

However when we select 5 and then select 3 of them, in the first count, we select 5, ignoring 2 and then select 3, ignoring 2 more, and then make a permutation of those 3.

In the problem presented, the elements 4th and 5th because are present in the consideration again (after the first selection), the number of ways of ordering increases.

Thus in case (2), we have
C(7, 5) * 5*4*3 = 21*60 = 1260.

As one more illustration, consider equations P and Q. The difference in choosing between 3 directly and 3, 2, 2 format is the difference between (2+2)! and 2! 2! or 24/6 = 6 times.

This is the same as the ratio between our two answers - 1260 and 210.

Hope this helps.
_________________
Who says elephants can't dance?
General Discussion
Manager
Manager
avatar
Joined: 22 Jan 2012
Posts: 73
Location: India
Concentration: General Management, Technology
GPA: 3.3
WE: Engineering (Consulting)
Re: Judges will select 5 finalists from the 7 contestants entered in a sin  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 18 Mar 2012, 23:24
4
Simple Answer :

First Select 5 from 7 contestants and then select top 3 from those 5 =

7C5*5C3 = 42 * 5 = 210
_________________
Press +1 Kudos rather than saying thanks
which is more helpful infact..

Ill be posting good questions as many as I can...

Towards Success
Intern
Intern
avatar
Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 5
Re: Judges will select 5 finalists from the 7 contestants entered in a sin  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 26 Apr 2012, 13:28
Bunuel, Would you go into details with your explanation, plz??
Math Expert
User avatar
V
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 55266
Re: Judges will select 5 finalists from the 7 contestants entered in a sin  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 26 Apr 2012, 22:47
5
mofasser08 wrote:
Bunuel, Would you go into details with your explanation, plz??


Ask yourself, why should # of arrangement be different for the case with intermediary step and for the case without it?

Or, HOW can # of arrangements of 3 people out 7 (with or without intermediary step) be more than \(P^3_7\) (\(C^3_7*3!=210\))? I mean what different arrangement can there possibly be which is not counted in \(P^3_7\)? Or which arrangement there won't be because of that intermediary step?
_________________
Intern
Intern
avatar
Joined: 28 Aug 2012
Posts: 46
Concentration: Operations, Marketing
GMAT 1: 510 Q36 V25
GPA: 4
WE: Information Technology (Other)
Re: Judges will select 5 finalists from the 7 contestants entered in a sin  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 10 Feb 2013, 03:21
Bunuel ,
I went about this problem like this
Since they are asking for total no of arrangements , i did 7*6*5 =210 . 7 ppl can win 1st place,6 ppl can win 2nd place and 5 ppl can win third. Is this approach correct or would this work only for this situation ?
Math Expert
User avatar
V
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 55266
Re: Judges will select 5 finalists from the 7 contestants entered in a sin  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 10 Feb 2013, 03:46
thinktank wrote:
Bunuel ,
I went about this problem like this
Since they are asking for total no of arrangements , i did 7*6*5 =210 . 7 ppl can win 1st place,6 ppl can win 2nd place and 5 ppl can win third. Is this approach correct or would this work only for this situation ?


Your approach is correct:
7 options for the first place;
6 options for the second place;
5 options for the third place.

Total 7*6*5=210.
_________________
Director
Director
User avatar
S
Joined: 17 Dec 2012
Posts: 630
Location: India
Re: Judges will select 5 finalists from the 7 contestants entered in a sin  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 06 May 2013, 03:41
christoph wrote:
Judges will select 5 finalists from the 7 contestants entered in a singing competition. The judges will then rank the contestants and award prizes to the 3 highest ranked contestants: a blue ribbon for first place, a red ribbon for second place, and a yellow ribbon for third place. How many different arrangements of prize-winners are possible?

A. 10
B. 21
C. 210
D. 420
E. 1,260


In my view, the answer cannot be \(7P3\). The reason is, when we select 3 prize winners, we expect that all the three are finalists in the group of prize winners. But this is not the case if we include those who are not finalists while considering the arrangement of prize winners.

The possible number of arrangement of prize winners is\(7C3 * 5P3.\)
_________________
Srinivasan Vaidyaraman
Sravna Test Prep
http://www.sravnatestprep.com

Holistic and Systematic Approach
Math Expert
User avatar
V
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 55266
Re: Judges will select 5 finalists from the 7 contestants entered in a sin  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 06 May 2013, 03:49
SravnaTestPrep wrote:
christoph wrote:
Judges will select 5 finalists from the 7 contestants entered in a singing competition. The judges will then rank the contestants and award prizes to the 3 highest ranked contestants: a blue ribbon for first place, a red ribbon for second place, and a yellow ribbon for third place. How many different arrangements of prize-winners are possible?

A. 10
B. 21
C. 210
D. 420
E. 1,260


In my view, the answer cannot be \(7P3\). The reason is, when we select 3 prize winners, we expect that all the three are finalists in the group of prize winners. But this is not the case if we include those who are not finalists while considering the arrangement of prize winners.

The possible number of arrangement of prize winners is\(7C3 * 5P3.\)


OA is C (210).

You can try smaller numbers and list all cases to check that your approach won't give the correct answer.
_________________
Director
Director
User avatar
S
Joined: 17 Dec 2012
Posts: 630
Location: India
Re: Judges will select 5 finalists from the 7 contestants entered in a sin  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 06 May 2013, 03:55
Bunuel wrote:
SravnaTestPrep wrote:
christoph wrote:
Judges will select 5 finalists from the 7 contestants entered in a singing competition. The judges will then rank the contestants and award prizes to the 3 highest ranked contestants: a blue ribbon for first place, a red ribbon for second place, and a yellow ribbon for third place. How many different arrangements of prize-winners are possible?

A. 10
B. 21
C. 210
D. 420
E. 1,260


In my view, the answer cannot be \(7P3\). The reason is, when we select 3 prize winners, we expect that all the three are finalists in the group of prize winners. But this is not the case if we include those who are not finalists while considering the arrangement of prize winners.


The possible number of arrangement of prize winners is\(7C3 * 5P3.\)


OA is C (210).

You can try smaller numbers and list all cases to check that your approach won't give the correct answer.


Then I think the OA is not correct. If the contestants are A, B, C, D, E, F and G and A, B, C, D, and E are finally selected how can F and G be among any list of prize winners?
_________________
Srinivasan Vaidyaraman
Sravna Test Prep
http://www.sravnatestprep.com

Holistic and Systematic Approach
Math Expert
User avatar
V
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 55266
Re: Judges will select 5 finalists from the 7 contestants entered in a sin  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 06 May 2013, 03:59
SravnaTestPrep wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
SravnaTestPrep wrote:

OA is C (210).

You can try smaller numbers and list all cases to check that your approach won't give the correct answer.


Then I think the OA is not correct. If the contestants are A, B, C, D, E, F and G and A, B, C, D, and E are finally selected how can F and G be among any list of prize winners?


OA is not wrong. Again, try to get the answer if it were 4 contestants with your approach and you'll see that your approach is not correct.
_________________
Director
Director
User avatar
S
Joined: 17 Dec 2012
Posts: 630
Location: India
Re: Judges will select 5 finalists from the 7 contestants entered in a sin  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 06 May 2013, 04:31
Quote:
OA is not wrong. Again, try to get the answer if it were 4 contestants with your approach and you'll see that your approach is not correct.


Four Contestants : A B C D

Three are selected. This can be done in 4 C 3 ways - ABC, ABD, BCD, ACD

Consider 2 prizes

The prize winners from the above four combination of finalists can each be arranged in 3P2 ways

The answer is 4C3 * 3P2

Each of the 4C3 ways are independent of one another and so the arrangements have to be considered independently. It will be a repetition only within the same combination. So the ranking AB in ABC is independent of the same ranking AB in ABD. So we will have the prize winners AB in ABC and the prize winners AB in ABD and so on.

Your approach is obviously wrong because non finalists cannot be considered as prize winners.
_________________
Srinivasan Vaidyaraman
Sravna Test Prep
http://www.sravnatestprep.com

Holistic and Systematic Approach
Math Expert
User avatar
V
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 55266
Re: Judges will select 5 finalists from the 7 contestants entered in a sin  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 06 May 2013, 06:18
1
SravnaTestPrep wrote:
Quote:
OA is not wrong. Again, try to get the answer if it were 4 contestants with your approach and you'll see that your approach is not correct.


Four Contestants : A B C D

Three are selected. This can be done in 4 C 3 ways - ABC, ABD, BCD, ACD

Consider 2 prizes

The prize winners from the above four combination of finalists can each be arranged in 3P2 ways

The answer is 4C3 * 3P2

Each of the 4C3 ways are independent of one another and so the arrangements have to be considered independently. It will be a repetition only within the same combination. So the ranking AB in ABC is independent of the same ranking AB in ABD. So we will have the prize winners AB in ABC and the prize winners AB in ABD and so on.

Your approach is obviously wrong because non finalists cannot be considered as prize winners.


That's not correct. Either you don't understand the question or the solutions.

Four Contestants : A B C D and 3 prizes. Possible cases:
ABC
ACB
BAC
BCA
CAB
CBA

ABD
ADB
BAD
BDA
DAB
DBA

ACD
ADC
CAD
CDA
DAC
DCA

BCD
BDC
CBD
CDB
DBC
DCB

Total of 24 cases.

My approach: \(P^3_4=4!=24\) --> correct.
_________________
Non-Human User
User avatar
Joined: 09 Sep 2013
Posts: 11002
Re: Judges will select 5 finalists from the 7 contestants  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 29 Apr 2019, 22:49
Hello from the GMAT Club BumpBot!

Thanks to another GMAT Club member, I have just discovered this valuable topic, yet it had no discussion for over a year. I am now bumping it up - doing my job. I think you may find it valuable (esp those replies with Kudos).

Want to see all other topics I dig out? Follow me (click follow button on profile). You will receive a summary of all topics I bump in your profile area as well as via email.
_________________
GMAT Club Bot
Re: Judges will select 5 finalists from the 7 contestants   [#permalink] 29 Apr 2019, 22:49
Display posts from previous: Sort by

Judges will select 5 finalists from the 7 contestants entered in a sin

  new topic post reply Question banks Downloads My Bookmarks Reviews Important topics  


Copyright

GMAT Club MBA Forum Home| About| Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy| GMAT Club Rules| Contact| Sitemap

Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group | Emoji artwork provided by EmojiOne

Kindly note that the GMAT® test is a registered trademark of the Graduate Management Admission Council®, and this site has neither been reviewed nor endorsed by GMAC®.