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# Last year in a group of 30 businesses, 21 reported a net

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Last year in a group of 30 businesses, 21 reported a net [#permalink]

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05 Mar 2012, 17:27
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Last year in a group of 30 businesses, 21 reported a net profit and 15 had investments in foreign markets. How many of the businesses did not report a net profit nor invest in foreign markets last year?

(1) last year 12 of the 30 businesses reported a net profit and had investments in foreign markets.

(2) last year 24 of the 30 businesses reported a net profit or invested in foreign markets, or both.

can anybody tell the matrix approach for stmnt(2)
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA
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05 Mar 2012, 20:08
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TomB wrote:
Last year in a group of 30 businesses, 21 reported a net profit and
did not report a net profit nor invest in foreign markets last year?

(1) last year 12 of the 30 businesses reported a net profit and had investments
in foreign markets.

(2) last year 24 of the 30 businesses reported a net profit or invested in
foreign markets, or both.

can anybody tell the matrix approach for stmnt(2)

(A) is straight forward.

As for (B), we are told the answer straight away. If we have a total of 24 who reported Profit or invested in Foreign markets or both, then we will have 6 who did none of that and that is "did not report a net profit nor invest in foreign markets last year".
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Re: Last year in a group of 30 businesses, 21 reported a net [#permalink]

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05 Mar 2012, 22:56
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Last year in a group of 30 businesses, 21 reported a net profit and 15 had investments in foreign markets. How many of the businesses did not report a net profit nor invest in foreign markets last year?

Given: {Total} = {Profit} + {Investment} - {Both} + {Neither} --> 30=21+15-{Both}+{Neither} --> {Neither} = {Both} - 6.
Question: {Neither} = ?

(1) Last year 12 of the 30 businesses reported a net profit and had investments in foreign markets --> {Both} = 12 --> {Neither}={Both}-6=12-6=6. Sufficient.

(2) Last year 24 of the 30 businesses reported a net profit or invested in foreign markets, or both --> {Profit} + {Investment} - {Both} = 24 --> 21+15-{Both}=24 --> {Both}=12 --> {Neither}={Both}-6=12-6=6. Sufficient.

TomB wrote:
can anybody tell the matrix approach for stmnt(2)

As you can see the problem can be easily solved without a matrix, but anyway here you go, matrix for statement (2):

(2) says that a+b+c=24, on the other hand a+b+c+d=30=Total --> 24+d=30 --> d=6. Sufficient.

Hope it's clear.
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Attachment:

30 businesses.PNG [ 4.79 KiB | Viewed 9087 times ]

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Venn Diagram vs. Table Matrix [#permalink]

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07 Nov 2012, 11:11
I am trying to figure when when I am supposed to use one over other. For example, I came across the following DS problem.

Last year in a group of 30 businesses, 21 reported a net profit and 15 had invested in the foreign markets. How many businesses did not report a net profit nor invest in the foreign markets last year?

1) Last year 12 of the 30 businesses reported a net profit and had investments in the foreign markets.
2) Last year 24 of the 30 businesses reported net profit or invested in foreign markets, or both.

Now, I am not asking anyone for a solution of this problem. I have it in front of me and it makes sense. The mistake I made is instead of using the Venn diagram (two circles that intersect a-x, x, y-x. that sort of thing), I used the matrix (net profit, no net profit, total, foreign investment, no foreign investment, total). Naturally, when I read the second statement I got confused because I did not know what to put into the table cell. I basically lost time doing the whole thing because I could not determine with matrix whether the statement 2 was sufficient or not.

Next time when I see a similar problem, I would like to know instantly which of the two approaches would bring me to the answer. What am I doing wrong?
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Re: Venn Diagram vs. Table Matrix [#permalink]

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07 Nov 2012, 15:03
Baracuda123 wrote:
I am trying to figure when when I am supposed to use one over other. For example, I came across the following DS problem.

Last year in a group of 30 businesses, 21 reported a net profit and 15 had invested in the foreign markets. How many businesses did not report a net profit nor invest in the foreign markets last year?

1) Last year 12 of the 30 businesses reported a net profit and had investments in the foreign markets.
2) Last year 24 of the 30 businesses reported net profit or invested in foreign markets, or both.

Now, I am not asking anyone for a solution of this problem. I have it in front of me and it makes sense. The mistake I made is instead of using the Venn diagram (two circles that intersect a-x, x, y-x. that sort of thing), I used the matrix (net profit, no net profit, total, foreign investment, no foreign investment, total). Naturally, when I read the second statement I got confused because I did not know what to put into the table cell. I basically lost time doing the whole thing because I could not determine with matrix whether the statement 2 was sufficient or not.

Next time when I see a similar problem, I would like to know instantly which of the two approaches would bring me to the answer. What am I doing wrong?

Merging similar topics. Please refer to the solutions above and ask if anything remains unclear.

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Re: Last year in a group of 30 businesses, 21 reported a net [#permalink]

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15 Nov 2012, 15:39
Thanks Bunuel and sorry for that.

It looks like I made a mistake with my matrix setup. Can you tell me though, what is the difference between Venn diagram and Matrix. I noticed that MGMAT makes distinction between the two. I cannot tell whether I make mistakes in setting up the matrix (like I did now) or Venn diagram, or there are times I can use only one of them. How can I tell?
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Re: Last year in a group of 30 businesses, 21 reported a net [#permalink]

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22 Dec 2012, 18:36
Bunuel,
Didn't quite understand this : (2) says that a+b+c=24,

both means : b+c?
and neither means only d?
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Re: Last year in a group of 30 businesses, 21 reported a net [#permalink]

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23 Dec 2012, 06:08
Sachin9 wrote:
Bunuel,
Didn't quite understand this : (2) says that a+b+c=24,

both means : b+c?
and neither means only d?

It's all in the matrix:
a = investment and profit;
b = investment and NO profit;
c = profit and NO investment;
d = NO investment and NO profit.

Hope it's clear.
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Re: Last year in a group of 30 businesses, 21 reported a net [#permalink]

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03 Jan 2013, 22:12
Bunuel wrote:
Sachin9 wrote:
Bunuel,
Didn't quite understand this : (2) says that a+b+c=24,

both means : b+c?
and neither means only d?

It's all in the matrix:
a = investment and profit;
b = investment and NO profit;
c = profit and NO investment;
d = NO investment and NO profit.

Hope it's clear.

Bunuel,

Do we have a similar question that tests concept that is tested in the 2nd option?
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Re: Last year in a group of 30 businesses, 21 reported a net [#permalink]

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04 Jan 2013, 02:42
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Expert's post
Sachin9 wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
Sachin9 wrote:
Bunuel,
Didn't quite understand this : (2) says that a+b+c=24,

both means : b+c?
and neither means only d?

It's all in the matrix:
a = investment and profit;
b = investment and NO profit;
c = profit and NO investment;
d = NO investment and NO profit.

Hope it's clear.

Bunuel,

Do we have a similar question that tests concept that is tested in the 2nd option?

Unfortunately I don't remember any specific problem, though you can search here: search.php?search_id=tag&tag_id=45 (DS) and here: search.php?search_id=tag&tag_id=65

Hope it helps.
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Re: Last year in a group of 30 businesses, 21 reported a net [#permalink]

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14 Feb 2014, 05:23
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Re: Last year in a group of 30 businesses, 21 reported a net [#permalink]

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04 Mar 2014, 22:00
I do not understand how can we say "last year 24 of the 30 businesses reported a net profit or invested in foreign markets, or both" when the question says "Last year in a group of 30 businesses, 21 reported a net profit and 15 had investments in foreign markets."

Isn't B going against the question?

Statement in question : Last year in a group of 30 businesses, 21 reported a net profit
Statement B : last year 24 of the 30 businesses reported a net profit
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Re: Last year in a group of 30 businesses, 21 reported a net [#permalink]

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05 Mar 2014, 00:59
gauravkaushik8591 wrote:
I do not understand how can we say "last year 24 of the 30 businesses reported a net profit or invested in foreign markets, or both" when the question says "Last year in a group of 30 businesses, 21 reported a net profit and 15 had investments in foreign markets."

Isn't B going against the question?

Statement in question : Last year in a group of 30 businesses, 21 reported a net profit
Statement B : last year 24 of the 30 businesses reported a net profit

Refer to the matrix:

a = investment and profit;
b = investment and NO profit;
c = profit and NO investment;
d = NO investment and NO profit.

(2) Last year 24 of the 30 businesses reported a net profit or invested in foreign markets, or both --> a+b+c=24 (all groups but NO investment and NO profit.).

Hope it's clear.
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Re: Last year in a group of 30 businesses, 21 reported a net [#permalink]

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18 May 2014, 09:49
(1) is also sufficient.

The general equation for 2 overlapping groups is:

True # of entities = (total # with char 1) + (total # with char 2) + (# with neither char) - (# with both chars)

From the original info, we know that:

30 = 21 + 15 + neither - both

and we're asked to solve for "neither".

(1) gives us "both", so we can definitely solve.
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Re: Last year in a group of 30 businesses, 21 reported a net [#permalink]

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29 May 2015, 23:37
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Re: Last year in a group of 30 businesses, 21 reported a net [#permalink]

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01 Jun 2015, 03:14
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Presenting the Venn diagram approach of the solution

Interpreting the given info
We are told about 30 businesses of which 21 reported a net profit and 15 had investments in foreign markets.Refer the venn diagram below:

As the total number of businesses is 30 we can write a + b + c + d = 30

Also, 21 firms reported a net profit, that would give us a + b =21. Also, it would give us c + d = 9

Similarly, 15 firms had investments in foreign markets, that would give us b + c = 15. Also it would give us a + d = 15.
We need to find the number of businesses that did not report a net profit nor invest in foreign market i.e. d. Let's see if the statements provide us the information to find a definite value of d

Statement-I
St-I tells us that 12 businesses reported net profit and had investments in foreign markets i.e. b = 12. This would give us the value of a = 9.
We know that a + d = 15 i.e. d = 6.
Hence st-I is sufficient to answer the question.

Statement-II
St-II tells us that 24 businesses reported a net profit or invested in foreign markets or both i.e. a + b + c = 24

Since a + b + c + d = 30 we can find the value of d = 6

Hence st-II is sufficient to answer the question.

Hope this helps

Regards
Harsh
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Last year in a group of 30 businesses, 21 reported a net [#permalink]

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11 Jul 2015, 05:41
Easiest for statement 2 is imho to think that there are 24 businesses that comprise the three segments "Profit / Investment", "Profit / No Investment" and "No Profit / Investment".

We are looking for the number of "Profit / Investment", as this one is not given and because this one is a combination of both the other segments it is necessary to subtract the number of businesses that had either a profit and an investment.

-> 24 = 21 + 15 -x
-> x = 12 (Profit AND Investment)

From that on we can fill out the matrix.
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Re: Last year in a group of 30 businesses, 21 reported a net [#permalink]

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25 Aug 2016, 04:31
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Re: Last year in a group of 30 businesses, 21 reported a net   [#permalink] 25 Aug 2016, 04:31
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