Events & Promotions
|
|
GMAT Club Daily Prep
Thank you for using the timer - this advanced tool can estimate your performance and suggest more practice questions. We have subscribed you to Daily Prep Questions via email.
Customized
for You
Track
Your Progress
Practice
Pays
Not interested in getting valuable practice questions and articles delivered to your email? No problem, unsubscribe here.
Apr 2711:00 AM EDT
-12:00 PM EDT
Prefer video-based learning? The Target Test Prep OnDemand course is a one-of-a-kind video masterclass featuring 400 hours of lecture-style teaching by Scott Woodbury-Stewart, founder of Target Test Prep and one of the most accomplished GMAT instructors
Apr 2610:00 AM EDT
-11:00 AM EDT
The Target Test Prep course represents a quantum leap forward in GMAT preparation, a radical reinterpretation of the way that students should study. Try before you buy with a 5-day, full-access trial of the course for FREE!
Apr 2808:00 AM PDT
-11:00 AM PDT
Whether you are just beginning your MBA journey or fine-tuning your path to a 700+ score, GMAT Day is designed to give you a competitive edge.
01 May 2004, 13:45
Kudos
Bookmarks
sebl,
You make some very interesting and valid points... I respectfully disagree with a few of them...
From the ETS Ad council to discourage cheating (see previous post for link):
80% of the country's best students cheated to get to the top of their class.
More than half the students surveyed said that they don't think cheating is a big deal.
95% of cheaters say they were not caught.
40% cheated on a quiz or a test
67% copied someone else's homework
I think being at the top of the class helps alot in getting into good schools (since class rank is based on GPA, it seems fairly likely that students are cheating on more than one instance to get to the top).
I've read somewhere between 7 and 17 percent of college students are repeat offenders. The fact that I can find alot of different surveys on this seems to indicate this is a rather widespread problem.
The Fairtest factsheet on the GMAT shows that schools like Harvard at one time even stopped using the GMAT because it was poor at predicting success (I must concede that Harvard reinstated their GMAT test later on after the GMAT added the writing sample, as I recall). Further, in my reading, I have found that a surprising number of schools (more than just a couple) are down grading the importance of tests like the SAT. (I will also concede that sometimes statistics can be manipulated).
The only message I'd like to put forth is that widespread cheating is not limited to one particular group or nationality. Hopefully, things will improve as more cheaters are caught. As some of the readings suggest, cheating appears to be a symptom of a more serious problem in society today (what is as troubling than the number of instances of cheating, is how many students don't see why this is big deal).
Here are a few interesting excerpts to consider:
From https://www.oakridger.com/stories/082702 ... 20047.html:
"Caperton said he hoped the writing exam -- included after the University of California system threatened to stop using the SAT -- would "serve as a call to educators to emphasize strong writing skills." The SAT's testing rival, the ACT, announced Monday it would offer an optional essay starting in 2004."
From https://www.fairtest.org:
"NEW FAIRTEST ANALYSIS FINDS:
MORE THAN 700 4-YEAR COLLEGES DO NOT USE SAT I OR ACT SCORES
TO ADMIT SUBSTANTIAL NUMBERS OF BACHELOR DEGREE APPLICANTS"
"Deemphasing standardized test scores is an excellent way to comply with the recent U.S. Supreme Court endorsement of 'holistic' admissions." The FairTest count is based on a systematic review of the College Board's 2003 College Handbook and other guide books, information posted on college and university websites, and interviews with school officials."
"Colleges and universities eliminate test score requirements for many reasons" explained Bob Schaeffer, FairTest's Public Education Director. "Many are concerned about the negative impact on race and gender equity that results from relying on test scores. Others recognize that high-priced coaching programs artificially boost the scores of students who can afford them. Most agree that scores from a three hour exam add little of value to an applicant's portfolio."
Sorry for taking this discussion off on a tangent... This is a really interesting (and addictive) discussion... But, I guess we should get back to the task at hand... getting through the GMAT!
You make some very interesting and valid points... I respectfully disagree with a few of them...
From the ETS Ad council to discourage cheating (see previous post for link):
80% of the country's best students cheated to get to the top of their class.
More than half the students surveyed said that they don't think cheating is a big deal.
95% of cheaters say they were not caught.
40% cheated on a quiz or a test
67% copied someone else's homework
I think being at the top of the class helps alot in getting into good schools (since class rank is based on GPA, it seems fairly likely that students are cheating on more than one instance to get to the top).
I've read somewhere between 7 and 17 percent of college students are repeat offenders. The fact that I can find alot of different surveys on this seems to indicate this is a rather widespread problem.
The Fairtest factsheet on the GMAT shows that schools like Harvard at one time even stopped using the GMAT because it was poor at predicting success (I must concede that Harvard reinstated their GMAT test later on after the GMAT added the writing sample, as I recall). Further, in my reading, I have found that a surprising number of schools (more than just a couple) are down grading the importance of tests like the SAT. (I will also concede that sometimes statistics can be manipulated).
The only message I'd like to put forth is that widespread cheating is not limited to one particular group or nationality. Hopefully, things will improve as more cheaters are caught. As some of the readings suggest, cheating appears to be a symptom of a more serious problem in society today (what is as troubling than the number of instances of cheating, is how many students don't see why this is big deal).
Here are a few interesting excerpts to consider:
From https://www.oakridger.com/stories/082702 ... 20047.html:
"Caperton said he hoped the writing exam -- included after the University of California system threatened to stop using the SAT -- would "serve as a call to educators to emphasize strong writing skills." The SAT's testing rival, the ACT, announced Monday it would offer an optional essay starting in 2004."
From https://www.fairtest.org:
"NEW FAIRTEST ANALYSIS FINDS:
MORE THAN 700 4-YEAR COLLEGES DO NOT USE SAT I OR ACT SCORES
TO ADMIT SUBSTANTIAL NUMBERS OF BACHELOR DEGREE APPLICANTS"
"Deemphasing standardized test scores is an excellent way to comply with the recent U.S. Supreme Court endorsement of 'holistic' admissions." The FairTest count is based on a systematic review of the College Board's 2003 College Handbook and other guide books, information posted on college and university websites, and interviews with school officials."
"Colleges and universities eliminate test score requirements for many reasons" explained Bob Schaeffer, FairTest's Public Education Director. "Many are concerned about the negative impact on race and gender equity that results from relying on test scores. Others recognize that high-priced coaching programs artificially boost the scores of students who can afford them. Most agree that scores from a three hour exam add little of value to an applicant's portfolio."
Sorry for taking this discussion off on a tangent... This is a really interesting (and addictive) discussion... But, I guess we should get back to the task at hand... getting through the GMAT!
04 May 2004, 21:11
Kudos
Bookmarks
sebl,
I think the strong conclusion that you put forward based on "inconclusive and phenomenic" evidence that I think is quite ridiculous. To me, your argument is indeed expressing jealousy and anger toward the chinese students who got high GMAT (especially in Math) scores and work really hard for that. (are angry because you think that they should not be better than you, when indeed they are! globally admitted)
Have you ever thought, how difficult for them to learn verbal section of the GMAT with their kind of writing, and is it possible that almost all of them cheat on the exam? (as most of them got high gmat).
I think the best way to get ahead (individually, or eventually collectively as a Nation) is to keep your eyes wide and firm on to ourself, focus on what we want to achieve, improve ourselves, and most of all, challenge ourselves to outperform our yesterday by today and our today by tomorrow, rather than picking on other people's proven strenghts/weaknesses and badmouthing them based on something that is not totally true/ valid as a support for your conclusion. Easy, if it's a strength, then admit it and learn from them (but you will never learn before accepting it truly), and if it's a weakness, don't capitalise on it and avoid it for your own good.
Seeing mistakes on others and criticise them are always easier than to do so on ourselves.
Cheating happens everywhere, how much? we dont know. That's why we call them cheating. Cheating carries in it a sense of LYING.
I think the strong conclusion that you put forward based on "inconclusive and phenomenic" evidence that I think is quite ridiculous. To me, your argument is indeed expressing jealousy and anger toward the chinese students who got high GMAT (especially in Math) scores and work really hard for that. (are angry because you think that they should not be better than you, when indeed they are! globally admitted)
Have you ever thought, how difficult for them to learn verbal section of the GMAT with their kind of writing, and is it possible that almost all of them cheat on the exam? (as most of them got high gmat).
I think the best way to get ahead (individually, or eventually collectively as a Nation) is to keep your eyes wide and firm on to ourself, focus on what we want to achieve, improve ourselves, and most of all, challenge ourselves to outperform our yesterday by today and our today by tomorrow, rather than picking on other people's proven strenghts/weaknesses and badmouthing them based on something that is not totally true/ valid as a support for your conclusion. Easy, if it's a strength, then admit it and learn from them (but you will never learn before accepting it truly), and if it's a weakness, don't capitalise on it and avoid it for your own good.
Seeing mistakes on others and criticise them are always easier than to do so on ourselves.
Cheating happens everywhere, how much? we dont know. That's why we call them cheating. Cheating carries in it a sense of LYING.
04 May 2004, 22:16
Kudos
Bookmarks
aonie
Hi Aonie and other guys
If anyone else had an easy time on the GMAT, what are his chances he will get into the top schools? i dont think its a big factor. GMAT is simply not an indicator. 800 GMATs get rejected. No one knows what the weight of GMAT is, but its said that 680+ is good enough.
GMAT is one of the components and definitely not a deal maker. our quality of experience, our essays,our academic record will speak for itself.
That said, we cannot deny the fact that chinese websites are doing it. if we can stop them, great.
As a side note; i would imagine that thousands of students take GMAT every month. I dont think a handful of chinese students can make a big difference to the percentile.Some GMAT tutors ( i know one who did) also take these tests. That should also affect the difficulty level of the exam, but it doesnt. Simply because of the huge database on which the percentile is based on
Sincerely
Praet
