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manbear677
27 Oct 2014, 06:22
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BLUF / TL:DR: I scored 680 on my first GMAT, and then a 660 on my second. I DID report both scores….was this a mistake? Do I need to retake a 3rd time to clear this up for the adcoms? Oh, and I am applying to 5 schools by R2…so I’m basically out of time.
Hey guys, I wanted to share my GMAT experience and also try to get some advice....I'll try to keep this succinct. Here we go!
For background, I am applying to a top US full-time MBA program this year. I was originally shooting for R1, but as you will see, that got moved to R2. I am 6 years out of college, so I was pretty rusty on quant! Also, I am born/raised in USA, so I'm a native English speaker. As you will see from my test scores, I am not one of those guys who starts their GMAT being freakishly good at quant and immediately hitting high 600 or 700+ on first attempt. For reference, I have a 3.56 GPA in Computer Science from a US service academy (I know schools will weigh GMAT score with GPA when determining if you "check the box" for being able to succeed with the curriculum).
My GMAT experience started in April of this year. I started mainly using GMAT Pill and the OG. I spent 3 months of self-study (using GMAT Pill). I thought GMAT Pill was acceptable, but I struggled with discipline to study and feel like I was pretty disorganized (I don't think I did nearly enough OG problems...the only section I completed in its entirety was PS). My review process was also not very robust - I would go back and review only the problems I got wrong to figure out "how to do them" (which generally meant figuring out the one technique that is best applied to solve that problem). I did use MGMAT SC guide, and I liked how it focused on the fundamentals. I don't know that it actually resulted in a significant improvement in my SC scores, but given its ubiquity on these forums, I figured it was the way to go.
During these first three months, I scored the following on practice tests:
April 4: MGMAT CAT #1 - 620 (Q40, V35, no IR/AWA....first CAT, diagnostic)
May 11: MGMAT CAT #2 - 650 (Q44, V35, no IR/AWA)
July 5: MGMAT CAT #3 - 620 (Q37, V37, no IR/AWA)
July 31: GMAT Prep #1 - 690 (Q48, V36, IR 4.0, and with AWA)
This final practice CAT was 5 days before my first actual GMAT attempt. Even though I had yet to score above a 700, I felt like I at least had a shot at 700+ on the real thing, given the range of accuracy on a GMAT Prep CAT being +/- 30ish points of an official score.
I took my first official GMAT on Aug 4th. I felt in-the-zone when I took it, and I wasn't freaking out or exhausted. I did start to get anxious/fatigued about halfway through the verbal section, as I started to realize that I was near the Great Reckoning (receiving the official score!). The results were pretty much on-target with my practice CATs:
Aug 4: Official GMAT #1 - 680 (Q46, V38, IR 5.0, AWA 6.0)
I was a bit disappointed at a sub-700, but not at all surprised. Plus, this score is (technically) on the fringe of the 80% range for most top schools, so I knew I was at least in the game.
But I decided that I wanted to retake. Everything I read online says it is better to delay from a R1 application to R2 in order to improve any weaknesses (like a marginal/below-average GMAT score). So, after taking a couple days off, I launched round 2 of GMAT studying...
Enter Manhattan GMAT. I assessed my weakness to be in the fundamentals. I spent too much time reading a problem to try and figure out "how to solve it." So I figured I'd start fresh and complete the MGMAT Complete Course online. Spare no expense!
The course was good. Ron Purewal is well-known for his teaching abilities and taking the online course really got me focused. I had a syllabus to follow, a dozen shiny new strategy/fundamental guides to work thru, and a list of OG problems to do each week. Also, I greatly improved my review process. Specifically, rather than just figuring out what I did wrong on a problem, I would rework all problems (both ones I got right and ones I missed) to figure out as many methods to do the problem as possible (backsolving, estimation, plug in numbers, or just finding the "textbook" method). So I think I got more out the OG problems I did complete. I followed the basic MGMAT syllabus though....I didn't complete every OG problem, instead going for quality over quantity. I also didn't try to work the hardest problems that you can find (like the GMAT Club quant tests or the MGMAT Advanced quant guide)....I wanted instead to be "brilliant at the basics." All of this is in-line with what my MGMAT teachers preached.
Also, during a two-week break from the MGMAT class around Labor Day, I knocked out the Powerscore CR Bible. I thought this thing was awesome, although a bit long-winded. I definitely felt "smart" when doing CR problems....that being said though, I don't know if I successfully translated this into success on practice tests.
I took my first "round two" practice CAT about 7 weeks after my first official GMAT.
Sep 22: MGMAT CAT #4 - 600 (Q42, V32, no IR/AWA)
I was severely disappointed. I scored lower after 6 months of studying (and about $2000 on courses/materials) than I did on my diagnostic! I identified some timing-related issues from this test, reviewed everything, and just moved on. I guess I learned more from this than I would have if I crushed the test, right?
On my next practice test, I used some new timing benchmarks and scored the following:
Oct 15: MGMAT CAT #5 - 660 (Q44, V36, IR 3.7, with AWA)
I had mixed feelings after this test. I was less than 10 days away from my second official GMAT, and I still was a long shot away from 700. Buuuut, it was the highest MGMAT test I had scored (and that was with IR and AWA, something I didn't often do on practice tests). Plus, MGMAT tests (especially quant) are harder than the real thing, right?
I expended my second and final GMAT Prep test the weekend before the real deal:
Oct 20: GMAT Prep #2 - 700 (Q49, V36, IR 8, with AWA)
Finally, 7 in my score! And I only missed two IR problems (though, I had seen them before....do they reuse the IR for the two GMAT Prep CATs?). I was feeling like I could actually pull off a 700+ on my second official attempt, so I did a quick review and then took a couple days off to relax and think "happy thoughts" before my second official attempt.
My second official GMAT was last Friday at noon. I am lucky to currently have a job in the military that is not stressful and that I can leave early from....I preferred to go to work the morning of the test so I didn't just sit around at home and get freaked out. During the test, I felt pretty much exactly the same as I did the first one....in-the-zone, not tired, ready to go to work. And excited to put the GMAT behind me with a 700+! I was on-pace, skipped questions that looked too hard, and was doing my thing. I felt the same anxiety for maybe the final 10 verbal questions, because I knew I was near the end. I was pretty devastated when I rang up the final score:
Oct 24: 2nd Official GMAT – 660 (Q46, V36, IR 7, AWA not yet reported)
So, in conclusion. Here are a few of my thoughts…
1) You are the rule, not the exception. That is what keeps popping into my head after the test - NO, you won’t score 30 points higher on your official GMAT than you did on your GMAT Prep tests. You WON’T break out of the 600’s for the first time on game day. That’s the hard truth.
2) Throwing time and money at a problem won’t solve anything. I did (and still do) think that I am “GMAT-smarter” after taking the MGMAT class. But I really feel like I should have done more problems. Maybe if I had more than a week and a half after finishing the MGMAT class, I could have gone through the OG in its entirety, worked thru some practice GMAT Club tests, and developed some real pattern-identification.
3) I wish I had started studying earlier. I also wish I would have started with the MGMAT Complete Course, rather than by trying to go it alone. If you are just starting out….pay the $$$ upfront and get the studying going ASAP. Don’t procrastinate because you haven’t figured out what books to use. Don’t procrastinate because you don’t know which problems to do in the OG. Don’t waste your time using sub-par resources or just “winging it.” Do it right the first time!
4) Have a Plan B. Going into the second GMAT, I had already considered what I would do if I bombed the second attempt (in terms of adjusting my target schools). This didn’t really take any of the pressure off before hand, but it made the….uh…”healing process” pass in a matter of hours rather than days. It sucks that I basically wasted the money and 3 months of my life, but I’ll still get into a “top” school, I’ll still move forward, and there’s no point looking back (other than to help out other GMAT Clubbers, of course!).
5) Decide whether or not you are going to report a lower score on the second attempt! I didn’t think this thru before my second attempt. And I fear that I might have messed this up…..now I need some advice on what to do.
So, I scored a 680 on my first attempt (with a marginal IR of 5) and then a 660 (with an improved IR of 7). When the screen popped up asking if I should report my score, I kinda froze. I was still in a bit of shock from my lower score, and they only give you 2 minutes to decide if you want to report or not. On one hand, the score is lower…both the raw quant and verbal score were lower than my first attempt. But, I had improved on the IR (from 5 to 7). I know people usually talk about trying to hit 5+ on the IR, so I thought that reporting my second score would be worth it for that.
But, now I am not sure I made the right move. Will the adcoms think that my 680 was a fluke they see that I scored a 660 after 3 more months of studying? When I decided to submit the lower scores from the second attempt, I actually liked the idea that the adcoms would see that I wasn’t happy with the 680 and wanted to push for a higher score. But now this seems dumb. Since my second score was lower.
So, dearest GMAT Club….what do I do? I’m worried that my 680 will raise some questions regarding my academic capabilities, and that when the adcoms look to find mitigating factors (like my decent GPA) that they will instead find that glaring 660. I did schedule my second GMAT with the sadistic thought in mind that I COULD retake a THIRD time before R2 deadlines. But I think I’d be really screwing myself on the application side of things….I’m planning to apply to 5 schools (HBS, Wharton or Booth or MIT, Haas, UCLA, and UW (Foster)). I don’t know that I can complete 5 applications AND study enough to actually IMPROVE my GMAT on a third attempt, all in the next 2 months (oh, and not to mention the fact that the holidays are already busy).
Thanks in advance for any guidance!
Hey guys, I wanted to share my GMAT experience and also try to get some advice....I'll try to keep this succinct. Here we go!
For background, I am applying to a top US full-time MBA program this year. I was originally shooting for R1, but as you will see, that got moved to R2. I am 6 years out of college, so I was pretty rusty on quant! Also, I am born/raised in USA, so I'm a native English speaker. As you will see from my test scores, I am not one of those guys who starts their GMAT being freakishly good at quant and immediately hitting high 600 or 700+ on first attempt. For reference, I have a 3.56 GPA in Computer Science from a US service academy (I know schools will weigh GMAT score with GPA when determining if you "check the box" for being able to succeed with the curriculum).
My GMAT experience started in April of this year. I started mainly using GMAT Pill and the OG. I spent 3 months of self-study (using GMAT Pill). I thought GMAT Pill was acceptable, but I struggled with discipline to study and feel like I was pretty disorganized (I don't think I did nearly enough OG problems...the only section I completed in its entirety was PS). My review process was also not very robust - I would go back and review only the problems I got wrong to figure out "how to do them" (which generally meant figuring out the one technique that is best applied to solve that problem). I did use MGMAT SC guide, and I liked how it focused on the fundamentals. I don't know that it actually resulted in a significant improvement in my SC scores, but given its ubiquity on these forums, I figured it was the way to go.
During these first three months, I scored the following on practice tests:
April 4: MGMAT CAT #1 - 620 (Q40, V35, no IR/AWA....first CAT, diagnostic)
May 11: MGMAT CAT #2 - 650 (Q44, V35, no IR/AWA)
July 5: MGMAT CAT #3 - 620 (Q37, V37, no IR/AWA)
July 31: GMAT Prep #1 - 690 (Q48, V36, IR 4.0, and with AWA)
This final practice CAT was 5 days before my first actual GMAT attempt. Even though I had yet to score above a 700, I felt like I at least had a shot at 700+ on the real thing, given the range of accuracy on a GMAT Prep CAT being +/- 30ish points of an official score.
I took my first official GMAT on Aug 4th. I felt in-the-zone when I took it, and I wasn't freaking out or exhausted. I did start to get anxious/fatigued about halfway through the verbal section, as I started to realize that I was near the Great Reckoning (receiving the official score!). The results were pretty much on-target with my practice CATs:
Aug 4: Official GMAT #1 - 680 (Q46, V38, IR 5.0, AWA 6.0)
I was a bit disappointed at a sub-700, but not at all surprised. Plus, this score is (technically) on the fringe of the 80% range for most top schools, so I knew I was at least in the game.
But I decided that I wanted to retake. Everything I read online says it is better to delay from a R1 application to R2 in order to improve any weaknesses (like a marginal/below-average GMAT score). So, after taking a couple days off, I launched round 2 of GMAT studying...
Enter Manhattan GMAT. I assessed my weakness to be in the fundamentals. I spent too much time reading a problem to try and figure out "how to solve it." So I figured I'd start fresh and complete the MGMAT Complete Course online. Spare no expense!
The course was good. Ron Purewal is well-known for his teaching abilities and taking the online course really got me focused. I had a syllabus to follow, a dozen shiny new strategy/fundamental guides to work thru, and a list of OG problems to do each week. Also, I greatly improved my review process. Specifically, rather than just figuring out what I did wrong on a problem, I would rework all problems (both ones I got right and ones I missed) to figure out as many methods to do the problem as possible (backsolving, estimation, plug in numbers, or just finding the "textbook" method). So I think I got more out the OG problems I did complete. I followed the basic MGMAT syllabus though....I didn't complete every OG problem, instead going for quality over quantity. I also didn't try to work the hardest problems that you can find (like the GMAT Club quant tests or the MGMAT Advanced quant guide)....I wanted instead to be "brilliant at the basics." All of this is in-line with what my MGMAT teachers preached.
Also, during a two-week break from the MGMAT class around Labor Day, I knocked out the Powerscore CR Bible. I thought this thing was awesome, although a bit long-winded. I definitely felt "smart" when doing CR problems....that being said though, I don't know if I successfully translated this into success on practice tests.
I took my first "round two" practice CAT about 7 weeks after my first official GMAT.
Sep 22: MGMAT CAT #4 - 600 (Q42, V32, no IR/AWA)
I was severely disappointed. I scored lower after 6 months of studying (and about $2000 on courses/materials) than I did on my diagnostic! I identified some timing-related issues from this test, reviewed everything, and just moved on. I guess I learned more from this than I would have if I crushed the test, right?
On my next practice test, I used some new timing benchmarks and scored the following:
Oct 15: MGMAT CAT #5 - 660 (Q44, V36, IR 3.7, with AWA)
I had mixed feelings after this test. I was less than 10 days away from my second official GMAT, and I still was a long shot away from 700. Buuuut, it was the highest MGMAT test I had scored (and that was with IR and AWA, something I didn't often do on practice tests). Plus, MGMAT tests (especially quant) are harder than the real thing, right?
I expended my second and final GMAT Prep test the weekend before the real deal:
Oct 20: GMAT Prep #2 - 700 (Q49, V36, IR 8, with AWA)
Finally, 7 in my score! And I only missed two IR problems (though, I had seen them before....do they reuse the IR for the two GMAT Prep CATs?). I was feeling like I could actually pull off a 700+ on my second official attempt, so I did a quick review and then took a couple days off to relax and think "happy thoughts" before my second official attempt.
My second official GMAT was last Friday at noon. I am lucky to currently have a job in the military that is not stressful and that I can leave early from....I preferred to go to work the morning of the test so I didn't just sit around at home and get freaked out. During the test, I felt pretty much exactly the same as I did the first one....in-the-zone, not tired, ready to go to work. And excited to put the GMAT behind me with a 700+! I was on-pace, skipped questions that looked too hard, and was doing my thing. I felt the same anxiety for maybe the final 10 verbal questions, because I knew I was near the end. I was pretty devastated when I rang up the final score:
Oct 24: 2nd Official GMAT – 660 (Q46, V36, IR 7, AWA not yet reported)
So, in conclusion. Here are a few of my thoughts…
1) You are the rule, not the exception. That is what keeps popping into my head after the test - NO, you won’t score 30 points higher on your official GMAT than you did on your GMAT Prep tests. You WON’T break out of the 600’s for the first time on game day. That’s the hard truth.
2) Throwing time and money at a problem won’t solve anything. I did (and still do) think that I am “GMAT-smarter” after taking the MGMAT class. But I really feel like I should have done more problems. Maybe if I had more than a week and a half after finishing the MGMAT class, I could have gone through the OG in its entirety, worked thru some practice GMAT Club tests, and developed some real pattern-identification.
3) I wish I had started studying earlier. I also wish I would have started with the MGMAT Complete Course, rather than by trying to go it alone. If you are just starting out….pay the $$$ upfront and get the studying going ASAP. Don’t procrastinate because you haven’t figured out what books to use. Don’t procrastinate because you don’t know which problems to do in the OG. Don’t waste your time using sub-par resources or just “winging it.” Do it right the first time!
4) Have a Plan B. Going into the second GMAT, I had already considered what I would do if I bombed the second attempt (in terms of adjusting my target schools). This didn’t really take any of the pressure off before hand, but it made the….uh…”healing process” pass in a matter of hours rather than days. It sucks that I basically wasted the money and 3 months of my life, but I’ll still get into a “top” school, I’ll still move forward, and there’s no point looking back (other than to help out other GMAT Clubbers, of course!).
5) Decide whether or not you are going to report a lower score on the second attempt! I didn’t think this thru before my second attempt. And I fear that I might have messed this up…..now I need some advice on what to do.
So, I scored a 680 on my first attempt (with a marginal IR of 5) and then a 660 (with an improved IR of 7). When the screen popped up asking if I should report my score, I kinda froze. I was still in a bit of shock from my lower score, and they only give you 2 minutes to decide if you want to report or not. On one hand, the score is lower…both the raw quant and verbal score were lower than my first attempt. But, I had improved on the IR (from 5 to 7). I know people usually talk about trying to hit 5+ on the IR, so I thought that reporting my second score would be worth it for that.
But, now I am not sure I made the right move. Will the adcoms think that my 680 was a fluke they see that I scored a 660 after 3 more months of studying? When I decided to submit the lower scores from the second attempt, I actually liked the idea that the adcoms would see that I wasn’t happy with the 680 and wanted to push for a higher score. But now this seems dumb. Since my second score was lower.
So, dearest GMAT Club….what do I do? I’m worried that my 680 will raise some questions regarding my academic capabilities, and that when the adcoms look to find mitigating factors (like my decent GPA) that they will instead find that glaring 660. I did schedule my second GMAT with the sadistic thought in mind that I COULD retake a THIRD time before R2 deadlines. But I think I’d be really screwing myself on the application side of things….I’m planning to apply to 5 schools (HBS, Wharton or Booth or MIT, Haas, UCLA, and UW (Foster)). I don’t know that I can complete 5 applications AND study enough to actually IMPROVE my GMAT on a third attempt, all in the next 2 months (oh, and not to mention the fact that the holidays are already busy).
Thanks in advance for any guidance!
27 Oct 2014, 12:47
Kudos
Bookmarks
Hey man,
I dont think it was a mistake to report the score. In fact, I've heard that not reportiing a score could have adcom's wondering if you bombed the test. Ecspecailly since both your scores were in the ball park of one another, the second one doesnt deteriorate the value of the first one.
Wanted to know your thoughts on quant. Real test Quant seemed to be slightly lower than your practice (GMAT prep). Did you feel it was harder than gmat prep? Also what kind of questions were most tested?
I dont think it was a mistake to report the score. In fact, I've heard that not reportiing a score could have adcom's wondering if you bombed the test. Ecspecailly since both your scores were in the ball park of one another, the second one doesnt deteriorate the value of the first one.
Wanted to know your thoughts on quant. Real test Quant seemed to be slightly lower than your practice (GMAT prep). Did you feel it was harder than gmat prep? Also what kind of questions were most tested?
manbear677
28 Oct 2014, 15:45
Kudos
Bookmarks
bankerboy30
I don't remember feeling like I was blowing it when I took the actual GMAT quant sections. I do remember making early (educated) guesses on maybe 5 or so problems to prevent burning too much time, so perhaps that is too many. I was kinda shocked when I got my final score....it was a bit blindsiding, since I don't remember thinking that I was doing bad. Maybe it's because I used MGMAT CATs for all of my practice CATs. On those, I definitely felt when things weren't going to well (on the practice test where I scored a 600, I had a pretty good breakdown while I was taking the quant test....the questions were sooo hard, and then easy, easy, easy....aaaaaand bombed). Don't quote me on this, but I think it is pretty accepted that MGMAT CAT quant is harder than the real deal. Don't put any less effort into it! But when you are trying to keep calm in the days leading up to the real test....knowing that tidbit can help you keep it together.
In terms of what is most likely to be tested....that's a crap shoot. Number properties, exponent manipulation, and the three big FOIL equations [(a+b)(a-b), (a+b)(a+b), (a-b)(a-b)] come to mind as always popping up. On my second GMAT Prep, I got like 2 or 3 DS problems involving manipulating inequalities too. So, take that for what it's worth. But I don't think you will find anyone who will claim to know what is most commonly tested. I certainly don't make that claim. After all, I'm the guy who did not really succeed with his GMAT saga.
Hope that helps.
I don't remember feeling like I was blowing it when I took the actual GMAT quant sections. I do remember making early (educated) guesses on maybe 5 or so problems to prevent burning too much time, so perhaps that is too many. I was kinda shocked when I got my final score....it was a bit blindsiding, since I don't remember thinking that I was doing bad. Maybe it's because I used MGMAT CATs for all of my practice CATs. On those, I definitely felt when things weren't going to well (on the practice test where I scored a 600, I had a pretty good breakdown while I was taking the quant test....the questions were sooo hard, and then easy, easy, easy....aaaaaand bombed). Don't quote me on this, but I think it is pretty accepted that MGMAT CAT quant is harder than the real deal. Don't put any less effort into it! But when you are trying to keep calm in the days leading up to the real test....knowing that tidbit can help you keep it together.
In terms of what is most likely to be tested....that's a crap shoot. Number properties, exponent manipulation, and the three big FOIL equations [(a+b)(a-b), (a+b)(a+b), (a-b)(a-b)] come to mind as always popping up. On my second GMAT Prep, I got like 2 or 3 DS problems involving manipulating inequalities too. So, take that for what it's worth. But I don't think you will find anyone who will claim to know what is most commonly tested. I certainly don't make that claim. After all, I'm the guy who did not really succeed with his GMAT saga.
Hope that helps.
