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dk94588
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Please read this profile of smkrn

24-t68347

He has a 740, high GPA, spent 2 years as a missionary internationally and was rejected for the 2+2 program. It surprised me, but evidently Harvard has its reasons. It doesn't appear to be an easy program to get into. I think they might be taking 50 or so students for it. If you consider how many will certainly be applying for it, the acceptance % for the 2+2 could very easily be less than the regular HBS MBA program.

Also, if you don't get into school right after undergrad, you'll need to get adequate full-time work experience. While being a plumber is not easy, and is full-time work experience, I think many b-schools are looking for other types of experience. This is certainly going to be great stuff for your essays though! If you don't get accepted due to lack of work experience, or whatever reason, how old will your GMAT score be at that time? It's good for 5 years, but you must also consider how GMAT scores are trending upwards. A 750 used to be 99%, now 99% is 760 and above. My Q47 used to be 81% now it's 79%. This just happened in the past few months or a year. Looking at historical numbers for GMAT, a 720 used to be an outstanding score, and 30 or so points higher than most top school's average GMAT scores. If you apply for b-school with a GMAT score that is 740 now, it will still be a 740, but what will the percentile score be? I think by the time I graduate (assuming I get accepted somewhere) 3 years from now, my 720 will be BELOW average for most top b-schools. Additionally, if you get rejected, make sure you start doing things to add leadership to your resume and be thinking of how you're going to answer the "What have you done to better your application since the last time you applied unsuccessfully?"
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yeah definitely understood, the average work experience for Harvard is 5-6 years, but they do accept a couple just out of school each year. the fact that I am a white american probably will not help me in that area, but I do believe 4 years as full time plumbing (it is more managing as I run jobs using mexicans for a small contracting firm in MD, which I'm sure I can get them to put in their evaluation) might be sufficient. I do plan on taking the GMAT at least a few more times to get my score as high as possible before my senior year applications go out. If I dont get into Harvard, or any top 5 schools for that matter, I would most likely be happy with University of Maryland (currently ranked 39th), whose instate tuition is low as crap (like 7500 a year) where a 700 is like 80th percentile in their 2008 class (Median 660), who do have a 4+1 program.
but yes work experience is extremely important, and I wholeheartedly thank you for your input and suggestions
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dk94588
no I haven't, but I will look into it. yeah it makes sense that I am going to hit a plateau sooner or later, it was more a strategy to give short term test takers (like myself) a good guide to be in and out on the GMAT. Yes, I am starting to look at the benefits of focusing in and increasing my score bit by bit (over 700 any ten could mean in or out for top schools), I have purchased Kaplan 800, which has helped, would anyone suggest any other strategies on this?

I would suggest taking GMAT Challenges to boost up your math score. For verbal, I would blast through the SC1000, CR1000 questions and Brutal 70 SC questions (Verbal forum).

Which schools are you planning to apply to? Read jallenmorris's post carefully. You need a really high GMAT score to be competitive. For example, it's hard to justify taking an undergrad over an experienced worker with the same GMAT score because b-schools would want to throw in somebody who would add a new dimension to the class. For an undergrad to get in, Adcom needs to see huge potential in that student.
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yes very good point. I am currently preparing to take the test again in december on my winter break, and I am seeking to get the highest GMAT possible. I wouldnt be surprised if I could get another 50 or 60 in the next two years. I am probably going to apply to a lot of schools and see what happens, Harvard and UPENN will be on the list, probably UMD, like a #20 school in the northeast, and a second-tier school. see where I get in and play it by ear. I would like to take the challenges, but I am kind of trying to get enough posts and kudos to get into it for free (I'd rather not spend money if I don't have to). I am kind of hoping the construction background and the goal of being an entrepreneur will give me that bit to add to the class, if not it is what it is, but yes, a high GMAT and work experience is necessary to get into a top 5 school, and the higher the GPA and GMAT score, the better your chances are, that much is very clear.
thank you for your suggestions, and where can i find the 1000 questions and the brutal 70 SC?
Also, my Q score was only like 45 (like 17 percentile under my total score), so I feel like I really need to prep for Q, do you have any other suggestions outside of the challenges?
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Sorry, i didn't realize you already wrote the exam (i thought your score was from the Prep software). For the GMAT re-write, i would make it the last attempt as writing it 3x brings into question of why you have to write it so many times. 2x is okay, but getting it right your first time would have been ideal situation.

The SC1000 can be found by googling it or googling for GMATTER software (free). The brutal 70 are posted in the verbal forum.

I think if you can go through the challenges, it will be sufficient. There are 25 math tests, and believe me, you'll be fully utilizing the time to complete them.

For more practice tests, I would buy a Manhattan book so that you can get access to all their 6 CATs online.
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really? i heard that most big schools do not consider multiple times, even though they are able to see them, they only use the highest.
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Where did you hear that? I know that they consider the best score, but if you take it more than twice, not sure what you're trying to show - that you can spend a lot of time practicing for a test?

Anyways, I don't believe it by the simple fact that if you look at the application forms from the top schools, it blatantly asks: "How many times have you taken the GMAT?" (try creating an account and see for yourself)
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I mean do you think it would say more to take it twice if i could do significantly better, or only once and try to use the 700 score I got?
but you think it would almost certainly be better to take it once or twice, not three times even if I could get like a 790-800?
I mean everyone knows that anyone can study a year for a test and get a good score, and almost everyone in this forum has or currently is, but they're not stupid, not everyone can do that stellar. I mean I think if i go in, say i took it three times, and that my highest score was significantly above your median and that my first score was like say 60-70 points under my final score, which shows improvement, i dont see how that could hurt me in the long run.It would be different if i took it six times with my first being under 500. what would ur advice be?
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I don't think 700 is sufficient to be competitive to get into some of the schools you're considering (i.e. Harvard). You're applying as a young applicant and it is almost expected that you score high because you're still in school, focusing on academics. Somebody out of school for 10 years will be weighted more towards work experience than expected to have superior GMAT scores. Your competitors (i.e. juniors/seniors in college) are definitely going to be scoring high.

So I suggest you retake it, but go at it as if it were your last chance to score well. I kinda understand your reasoning that if you go from 700 -> 790 on the third try, it shows 'progress'. But from an Adcom's point of view, why couldn't you score the 790 on the first try? A third take indicates that either you didn't prepare enough the first two times or that you're scoring higher simply because you're learning to adapt to a standardized test.

Look at it another way, say you score 750 on the second try and 790 on the third try. You technically go from 98th percentile to 99th percentile. I'm not sure how much more value add that third attempt would be. Plus you run the risk of getting a lower score, which then really looks bad.
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yeah i think thats probably my best bet, study my ass off, or at least steady, for a year or so and pop in just before my senior year for a second try. I actually spoke with some other people i know who are going to law school and said it does look bad if you take the lsat more than twice. Its kind of like they give you one try where you may not have been prepared and then you take it again. But i do believe GMAT related cutoffs for applications only consider your highest score. Thank you.
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