Princeton Review - Toughest B-Schools to Get Into 2009

Question

1)Stanford 2)Harvard 3) Columbia 4)Berkeley 5)Wharton 6)MIT 7)Yale 8)NYU 9)Ross 10)Tuck https://www.princetonreview.com/schoolli ... =%07?RDN=1

isa · Answer

interesting...

pm4553 · Answer

Interesting indeed, I thought Kellogg / Chicago would be featured.

Raabend · Answer

Its generally in line with the reported USNews acceptance rate percentages

agold · Answer

I thought the acceptance rates for Ross and NYU are well over 20%? I was surprised to see these 2 on the list in place of Chicago and Kellogg.

kidderek · Answer

Yes. Chicago's acceptance rate is surprisingly high considering it's an M7 school.

togafoot · Answer

clearly, the toughest school to get into is the IIM in India... 173,000 applications last year for 200-odd seats.

icon · Answer

The expected uptick in applications at NYU seems natural to me. Bankers/Wall Street guys in NYC have lost their job or feel like they could soon lose their job. Love being in NYC and see it as the #1 backup to an M7. Ross, no idea. Maybe lots of GM employees are nervous? :lol:

msday · Answer

I disagree. Anyone who kills the CAT has a MUCH better than 2/1730 shot at IIM. They look for raw IQ, not the tough combination of skills/pedigree/accomplishments that U.S. b-schools look for. Essentially, the crux of my argument is that it's easier to be a one-track mind than it is to be a "holistically good" applicant.

highhopes · Answer

That is really interesting. It's a good thing to keep in mind when deciding on a strategy for which apps go into which rounds.

glettian · Answer

yeah i'm incredibly surprised kellogg isn't in the top 10....

riverripper · Answer

Kellogg and Chicago both have relatively large classes and dont practice yield control like some schools (cough columbia). I know Kellogg was about 24% for the class of '09 and dropped to roughly 18% last year (class of '10). I would assume Chicago's numbers are pretty close to those. However both have classes several hundred students larger than Haas, Tuck, and Yale.

Most of those rankings look pretty much right (not sure what years data they are using though). Though I was a little surprised about Ross and NYU. However, I dont think this is an accurate idea of how "tough" it is to get in...which school have the lowest admission rates would be a the right way to look at it.

solaris1 · Answer

I'm not sure why you guys are so surprised about NYU, it's acceptance rate has been ridiculously close to Columbia's in the last couple of years, I think. Heck, it might be more selective than Columbia this application season.

And selectivity doesn't really mean all that much, there are tangible differences in the applicant pools at each school.

Riverripper, what does Columbia's purported "yield control" have to do with selectivity, i.e. the number of applicants admitted?

devansh_god · Answer

What??? Kellogg and Chicago???? Don't mock the list dude..... :twisted:

... These schools are waaay too easy to get into......

........ the selectivity (i suppose) should be in the high 70s or something........ :lol:

riverripper · Answer

Are you serious? It definitely directly impacts the number admitted. Its a direct relationship, if they know that 80% of the people they select have to get in they only have to admit 125 people to get 100 to show up. While if they didnt do yield control and have 60% yield which is probably about what GSB has had in the recent years...they would have to admit 167 people to get the same 100 people. So in this case if both schools had 500 applicants, Columbia would admit 25% of applicants and Chicago would admit a over 33%.

How do they control their yield? Imagine a school gets 100 appliants each slightly more qualified for the last. Each school wants 10 students from this pool for their class.

-HBS admits the top 11 (90 to 100) or so of people, since they know 95% will show up. 
-Chicago admits the top 17 (84 to 100) people knowing about 60% will show up so they admit more accounting for the 40% who get into and choose to attend H/S/W and other top schools.
-Columbia admits 14 students but do so by admitting #79 to #92. They know that the top handful of students will likely also get in to H/S/W and at least 95% would choose to attend those schools so they dont admit them. This ensures they have a higher yield than Chicago who admitted those students and also lowers the number of people they have to admit to attend.

I am not knocking Columbia for doing it, its their choice on how to fill their slots but it definitely does change their numbers.

agold · Answer

This is an interesting way of looking at it, but I always thought that their method of yield control is the ED round. And in the ED round, I would figure they would try to grab as many of the highly qualified people as they can to "lock them in."

solaris1 · Answer

My impression is that yield wouldn't play a role in selectivity at all. If 100 people apply, and 20 are admitted, and 15 of those 20 eventually enroll (75% yield), then the selectivity of the school is still 20%.

Selectivity stays at the same 20% if 10 of the 20 enroll (50% yield). Can the admissions committee really predict whether they will have 50% yield or 75% yield in a given year and adjust acceptance rates accordingly beforehand?

EDIT: I suppose I considered yield as a concept ex post to selectivity.

agold · Answer

Yes, and they do. They try to base their admit rate based on historical yields and market circumstances. Usually, their guess is off by a few students and that's why you see class size fluctuations between years.

terp26 · Answer

So if they think a candidate is qualified for H/S/W they won't admit them based on that criteria? I highly doubt that. If that person is qualified, but doesn't show significant interest in Columbia in their essays that is another issue.

agold · Answer

I would assume that they would admit them and dangle a scholarship in front of their eyes to entice them. The top x % of candidates are the ones who they give out scholarships to to entice them away from H/S/W.

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