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remaining questions on idioms!

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New post 17 Apr 2014, 03:13
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hi,

I have been studying idioms for quite some time now and there are still some that i was not able to find answers to.
Hereby is a list of my questions:

- to inspire: there is nothing to add according to manhattan GMAT book guide 8, but what does that exactly means?
I found the idioms " inspire someone with something" and "inspire something in someone"

- to pronounce: there is nothing to ass according to manhattan GMAT book guide 8, but what does that exactly means?
i found the idiom: to pronouce something on: is that correct, does it exist?

- to know: there are a lot of them:
to know X as: to use for a role
to be known for: to use with qualities or talents
known to do X: for a famous action
to know that + clause: in which case to use it?
to know to (+ infinitive verb): he is known to be brilliant, but what is he general rule for this idiom?
to know can also take "as" or "by"
to know can be take "known of", "known in + gerund"

- to agree: i need to have a clarification with general rules if possible:
to agree with + noun: = to approve, to be used with a person, an opinion or a policy (she agree with the decision to move)
to agree on : to come to terms, when an agreement reached (Major EU agree on tigher education)
to agree to + verb: suggestions/actions proposed by someone else (Jack agree to sell his land)
to agree to (something inanimated): (Jack agree to her suggestion) this is an opinion for me, therefore why "with"is not used in this case?
to agree that + clause: when to use this one? Physicians agree that electrons exist

- to date
to date at is the general common idiom i found in lot of documents BUT
i also found "we can date the skeleton to 2500BC" is this correct? if es what is the general rule here?

- to depend on (whether): could you confirm and explain the difference between
to depend on
to depend on whether + question (uncertainty choices of possiblities)

- to consider X, Y
I know this is the correct idiom, but can you please confirm that "I am considering you as a chief " is wrong?

- to hear that + clause: does "to hear" always take that + clause?

- to argue: can you please explain the difference between the following 3 idioms and give the general rules:
to argue with
to argue over
to argue that + clause: when discussing the content of an argument

- cost: could you please confirm the following two with the rules?
to cost ... in
the cost of

- to create
to create X to + verb
to create with: does this idiom exist?

- responsible
to be responsible for: according to manhattan GMAT book guide 8
i also found "the tutor is responsible only to the superintendent": is this correct? if yes could you please explain the rule?

- tool: could you please explain the difference and when to use them
tool for making
tool to make

- anxiety: what is the general rules for:
anxiety about
anxiety that

- to flee: could you please confirm ?
to flee from somewhere
to flee to somewhere

- to grow: could you please explain the difference between the following two idioms:
to grow from
to grow out of

- to be fascinated
to be fascinated by
to be fascinated with: does this idiom exist, if yes what is the difference between these two


Thanks you very much for your help!
Have a nice day
Greg
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New post 18 Apr 2014, 14:00
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gregfromnancy wrote:
hi,

I have been studying idioms for quite some time now and there are still some that i was not able to find answers to.

Thanks you very much for your help!
Have a nice day
Greg

Dear Greg,
I'm happy to help. :-)

First of all, here's a free GMAT idiom ebook:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2013/gmat-idiom-ebook/

As to your questions:
1) to inspire
First of all, this is verb that I don't think I have ever seen on the GMAT. Not a likely topic.
Further, the split about which you are asking is not specific to "inspire", but is a more general difference among the two prepositions. The preposition "with" often connotes the manner or means by which an action is accomplished. Thus,
She inspired me with her wise words.
By contrast, "in" denotes the physical location, and metaphorically, connotes the field of endeavor in which some action is performed. Thus,
She inspires me in improving myself.
His book has inspired me in my career.

Again, this distinction is not at all specific to the verb "inspire."

2) to pronounce
In this sense, it means "to speak authoritatively." It's awkward to use this as a verb --- this is a rare instance in which it sounds much more natural to use the noun form, "to make a pronouncement", or "to issue a pronouncement." This means, to make an authoritative statement.
The seismologists refused to issue any pronouncement on the exact date of the expected earthquake.

3) to know
See the discussion the Idiom eBook

4) to agree
to agree with + noun: = to approve, to be used with a person, an opinion or a policy (she agree with the decision to move) YES
to agree on: to come to terms, when an agreement reached (Major EU agree on higher education) YES
to agree to + verb: suggestions/actions proposed by someone else (Jack agree to sell his land) YES

to agree to (something inanimated): (Jack agree to her suggestion) this is an opinion for me, therefore why "with"is not used in this case?
This gets into some very subtle connotations. If the object of my agreement is something I accept of my own volition, without any authority or implied obligation, then I would say "agree with."
I agree with Johnson's assessment of the decline of the auto industry.
In other words, yes, I agree, but I am not necessarily going to do anything about it. It's purely an intellectual agreement.
By contrast, if the object of my agreement is something that requires me to do something or places some constraints on my behavior, then I would say, "agree to."
After the argument, I agreed to wash all the dishes.
The new administration agreed to most of the guerrilla groups demands for social reforms.

In other words, in these cases, it's not purely an intellectual agreement, and agreement in which someone says "I see your point of view" and then does nothing. These are agreements that implies obligations or actions for the person who did the agreeing.
This is a very subtle difference, and I am not sure whether the GMAT would get into this distinction.

to agree that + clause: when to use this one? Physicians agree that electrons exist
Whenever two or more parties both believe that X is true, we can say that these parties "agree that X is true." Typically, this would be used either to emphasize that two parties or more parties that normally disagree about everything have found a common point, or it is used to set a contrast.
Both Sunni and Shi'ite Moslems agree that the Qu'ran is the ultimate spiritual authority.
The three doctors agree that the patients sodium levels are dangerous low, but they disagreed on the best course of treatment.

5) to date
For the GMAT, I would say only "to date at" is definitely preferred, but "to date to" is also used in reputable sources and I suppose it could appear on the GMAT.

6) depend on
Sometimes the thing on which something depends is a simple noun
The fate of the mission depends on the initial assault.
The fate of the mission depends on the accuracy of the information that our spies obtained.

Sometimes the thing on which something depends is an action that is in question --- this requires a "whether" clause.
The fate of the mission depends on whether the team advancing from the north can break through to our position.
The fate of the mission depends on whether the supplies last.


7) to consider X Y
See this blog:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2012/consider-t ... mat-idiom/
Notice, there is no comma between X & Y. In terms of the GMAT, the sentence
"I am considering you as a chief."
would be completely unacceptable.

8) to hear
does "to hear" always take that + clause?
No. The object of "to hear" can be an ordinary sound.
I hear the nightingale singing of summer in full-throated ease.
I hear the music of the spheres.
I hear America singing.

If what is heard is a factual statement, then we need a "that" clause to communicate the content of that fact.

9) to argue
to argue that + clause: when discussing the content of an argument YES
to argue over - the object of "over" is usually a physical object that is causing contention. This would be most appropriate for schoolyard spats:
The children were arguing over whose turn it was.
The couple argued over how to squeeze the toothpaste tube.
to argue with - the object of "with" is a person, the other person in the argument.
She argues with her husband over the socks left on the floor.
to argue against --- similar; the object of "against" is also the other person. The difference between "to argue with" and "to argue against" is subtle. If the relationship is not an enduring one, and if the argument is really the only reason there's any relationship at all, then we use "to argue against", but if the argument is simply within context of a much larger relationship, then we use "to argue with."
I argued against the street preacher on the corner. (i.e. someone whom I may never see again.)
I argued with my best friend about religion.
The GMAT is not likely to test that subtle difference.

10) cost
the cost of - this is the principal idiom. The "cost" may be literal & financial or metaphorical, and the object of "of" may be a simple noun or a gerund phrase.
The cost of bananas
The emotional cost of Vietnam War
The cost of flying first class on an overseas trip
The cost of not following one's destiny

I am not familiar with a specific idiom involve "cost" + "in". As is often the case, the word "in" simply denotes a location in which an action is taking place, and I believe it has no intrinsic relationship to the word "cost."
The cost of buying gas in Death Valley
The cost of losing a parent in early childhood


11) to create
Neither one of these is a proper idiom. You are confusing general grammatical forms with idioms. That's very different.
The first, "to create X to do Y" --- that's just an ordinary infinitive of purpose, that can be used with any verb. See
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2014/the-infini ... orrection/
This structure can be used with a large variety of verbs: it is not specific to "create."
The preposition "with" has several general uses, including
a) accompaniment: "He created songs with his lead guitarist."
b) means: "He creates music with new musical software."
c) manner: "He creates songs with the confidence of an established artist."
d) content: "He creates songs with deep meaning." (Unlike the others, this is a noun modifier, modifying "songs".)
Again, these structures are general in the language, and have nothing to do with create. We could use a wide variety of other verbs:
I cook with fresh parsley. I cook with my favorite pot. I cook with my roommate. I cook meals with high nutritional content.

12) responsible
to be responsible for - the object of "for" is an issue or event; this is the principal idiom, most likely to appear on the GMAT.
The CFO is responsible for the economic health of the company.
A high school teacher is responsible for a student's knowledge of the subject, but not for the student's moral development.

responsible to -- a much more rare idiom, but technically correct. Here, the object of "to" would always be a person, an authority figure to whom one reports.
The Jesuits are responsible only to the pope.

13) tool
Extremely unlikely to be tested on the GMAT.
If the tool is already designed and exists in the world, then we would describe as a "tool for doing X." If we wanted to emphasize the creation/invention of the tool, and the inventor's purpose, we would use the infinitive of purpose instead.
The telescope is a tool for seeing distance objects.
In a brilliant insight, Galileo understood the telescope as a tool to investigate the heavenly bodies.

The difference is one of connotation, not like to be tested on the GMAT.

14) anxiety
anxiety about/ anxious about -- standard idioms; the object of "about" is a simple noun (a problem, an issue, etc.)
anxiety about the state of the economy
anxious about the upcoming midterm

anxious that -- this sounds awkward to me; since "anxiety" does not have a verb form, I think this would be better rephrased in terms of a similar word that does have a verb form:
She worries that he will try to drive after drinking too much.
We are concerned that the price of gold has dropped too low.


15) to flee
This is absolute no different from "to go", "to move", "to travel", and a host of other "motion" verbs. For almost any "motion" verb, we can talk about the starting point or the ending point of the motion.

16) to grow
to grow from - the object of "from" connotes an earlier stage, a previous stage that made the current conditions possible.
The company grew from an operation in the couple's basement.
An oak tree grows from an acorn.

to grow out of -- somewhat colloquial; the object of "out of" is something that might have been appropriate at one stage but is no longer appropriate. This has the connotation of something that was not a necessary and integral part of one's development, but something that provided entertainment or some other need at one point and then became a constrain or an impediment.
The company grew out of its two-room suite when it went public.
The child grew out of the pair of overalls.

Again, this is somewhat colloquial, not likely to appear on the GMAT.

17) fascinated/fascination
The verb/participle "fascinated" takes "by" always.
The noun "fascination" takes "with" always.

My friend, I strongly recommend: read, read, read. You learn best about how idioms work when you are reading high quality content. Here are suggestions for what to read:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2012/gmat-reading-list/

Mike :-)
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New post 19 Apr 2014, 00:54
Thanks a lot Mike !!!
You took lot of time to answer questions that are actually beyong scope here i am realizing ... so i really appreciate your answers ;-)

so just to react to some as your rules don't match the following examples:
9- "he argued with much emotions"
10- "Pollution costs us billions in increased medical bills" (from Manhattan GMAT SC guide 8)
11- then create is not an idiom? but in the manhattan ... "We created a team to lead", and not "for leading", this totally makes sense to me, but i should not consider a specific idiom "to create ... to + infinitive verb"
14- from the manhattan ...
"anxiety about his compagny's future IS ill-founded" so as you said + simple noun
"anxiety that his company may be sold IS ill-founded", so could we say + that + clause ?

Again thanks a lot!
Greg
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Re: remaining questions on idioms!  [#permalink]

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New post 21 Apr 2014, 11:31
gregfromnancy wrote:
Thanks a lot Mike !!!
You took lot of time to answer questions that are actually beyong scope here i am realizing ... so i really appreciate your answers ;-)

so just to react to some as your rules don't match the following examples:
9- "he argued with much emotions"
10- "Pollution costs us billions in increased medical bills" (from Manhattan GMAT SC guide 8)
11- then create is not an idiom? but in the manhattan ... "We created a team to lead", and not "for leading", this totally makes sense to me, but i should not consider a specific idiom "to create ... to + infinitive verb"
14- from the manhattan ...
"anxiety about his compagny's future IS ill-founded" so as you said + simple noun
"anxiety that his company may be sold IS ill-founded", so could we say + that + clause ?

Again thanks a lot!
Greg

Dear Greg,

9) Once again, recognize that, in addition to the idioms specific to a verb such as "argue", the preposition "with" also has it's own uses (means, manner, accompaniment), which I discussed in item #11 in the previous post. Once again, you are confusing a more general feature of the language with an idiom specific to an individual word. In the example "he argued with much emotion", the "with much emotion" describes manner and could be done with a large number of different verbs:
He talks about baseball with much emotion.
He plays the violin with much emotion.
He drives with much emotion.
He dances with much emotion.
etc. etc.
Before you assume that a structure is an idiomatic feature of one verb, ask yourself: could this feature be used with other verb?

10) OK, we need to be clear here. The word "cost" can be used either as a noun or a verb. The noun and the verb have different idioms. In the previous post, I was discussing the noun, but you are asking about the verb. Noun: "the cost of medical bills" or "the cost of pollution." The word "of" is used with the noun. Sometimes, the price is also the object of "of" --- "this has a cost of $500."
The MGMAT sentence is correct and extremely sophisticated. I guess we would have to call this an idiom, even thought it's considerably more sophisticated a structure than are most idioms. First, let's just talk about the verb "to cost" --- the subject of the verb is the product or service or problem that has a price, and the direct object is the price.
The car costs $20,000.
A good tutor costs over $100/hr.
The Millennium Sapphire costs more than anyone can imagine
.
Now, the structure P costs X in Q is used to indicate that product or service or process or problem P has a price of X, but part of that price is caused by or accounted for by Q. That's the use in the MGMAT sentence. To be honest, you are not going to learn all the subtle nuances of economic language purely from studying idiom lists. You need to be reading the Economist magazine, cover to cover, every week. It is only in reading sophisticated writings about modern economic issues that you will really understand all these nuances.

11) In the sentence, "We created a team to lead," the infinitive is not an idiom specific to "create", but again, something general to the language, an infinitive of purpose. Once again, you are confusing specific idioms with general features of the language. Again, you can read about the infinitive of purpose here:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2014/the-infini ... orrection/

12) "anxiety that his company may be sold is ill-founded" --- Hmmm. I know MGMAT says that this is correct, and it most certainly is not wrong, but it sounds a little funny to me. I am just not sure this would appear on the GMAT. I don't recall ever seeing this structure anywhere in official material.

Finally, my friend, stop studying the details of idiom lists and start reading. Find out how these structures are used in sophisticated writings about the modern world. You can't arrive at SC mastery by building some super-list of all possible rules. You have to read, learn to recognize patterns, and develop your ear for the language.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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New post 23 Apr 2014, 00:24
Thanks a lot Mike,

Following your advice, i am reading the Wall Street Journal and the Economist!
Thanks,

Greg
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New post 24 Apr 2014, 13:59
Mike,

I also asked these questions because i found them in the manhattan gmat official guide ... which was supposed to be one of the best in the market ... (example of create ... to; or anxiety; or many others). I also found that some idioms are given not totally (only 1 rule of the idiom, and not the remaining one such as "to know" couple of differents forms exists but in the manhattan ... so i simply wanted to double check how should i consider all the idiom lists i found ... actually never close to complete but there are still really good to start learning them and get ready quickly ...

The best advices, if you have time, is indeed to read, read and read ;-)

Thanks,
Greg
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