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smileyface
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Resume Review 14 Nov 2010, 12:32
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I'm looking for someone to review my resume; looking for a second eye to check for errors and to give me pointers about how it could improve. If you have a resume you want looked at, we can swap resumes. Send me a PM if interested. Thank you for your attention.
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Resume Review 14 Nov 2010, 12:45
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I'm looking for someone to review my resume; looking for a second eye to check for errors and to give me pointers about how it could improve. If you have a resume you want looked at, we can swap resumes. Send me a PM if interested. Thank you for your attention.
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I think this is a bad idea. If other people get involved in your application, it loses its voice. This is just as true of resumes as it is of essays. You can google up plenty of good general pointers for resumes. That's really all the advice you would ever need. If you haven't done the introspection to understand yourself, your career, and how to present it, then that is a more fundamental problem that won't be solved by superficial advice from strangers who just further dilute your unique identity. Sorry for the rant, just my $0.02. You have to have confidence in yourself.
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Resume Review 14 Nov 2010, 12:54
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smileyface
I'm looking for someone to review my resume; looking for a second eye to check for errors and to give me pointers about how it could improve. If you have a resume you want looked at, we can swap resumes. Send me a PM if interested. Thank you for your attention.

I think this is a bad idea. If other people get involved in your application, it loses its voice. This is just as true of resumes as it is of essays. You can google up plenty of good general pointers for resumes. That's really all the advice you would ever need. If you haven't done the introspection to understand yourself, your career, and how to present it, then that is a more fundamental problem that won't be solved by superficial advice from strangers who just further dilute your unique identity. Sorry for the rant, just my $0.02. You have to have confidence in yourself.
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I agree. PM me with your email and I'll send you a ResumeGuidlines.pdf
It might help.
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Resume Review 14 Nov 2010, 13:14
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dundundun
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I'm looking for someone to review my resume; looking for a second eye to check for errors and to give me pointers about how it could improve. If you have a resume you want looked at, we can swap resumes. Send me a PM if interested. Thank you for your attention.

I think this is a bad idea. If other people get involved in your application, it loses its voice. This is just as true of resumes as it is of essays. You can google up plenty of good general pointers for resumes. That's really all the advice you would ever need. If you haven't done the introspection to understand yourself, your career, and how to present it, then that is a more fundamental problem that won't be solved by superficial advice from strangers who just further dilute your unique identity. Sorry for the rant, just my $0.02. You have to have confidence in yourself.
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You don't get your essays reviewed by another person?

Editing doesn't have to make something lose its voice. You'd never find a professional writer without an editor, for example. This seems like bad advice.
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Resume Review 14 Nov 2010, 13:20
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I'm looking for someone to review my resume; looking for a second eye to check for errors and to give me pointers about how it could improve. If you have a resume you want looked at, we can swap resumes. Send me a PM if interested. Thank you for your attention.

I think this is a bad idea. If other people get involved in your application, it loses its voice. This is just as true of resumes as it is of essays. You can google up plenty of good general pointers for resumes. That's really all the advice you would ever need. If you haven't done the introspection to understand yourself, your career, and how to present it, then that is a more fundamental problem that won't be solved by superficial advice from strangers who just further dilute your unique identity. Sorry for the rant, just my $0.02. You have to have confidence in yourself.

You don't get your essays reviewed by another person?

Editing doesn't have to make something lose its voice. You'd never find a professional writer without an editor, for example. This seems like bad advice.
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I had a family member read my app for typos etc but that's it. I'm a pretty militant believer that 3rd party advice on how to present yourself is counterproductive. We're not professional writers and that is not the standard by which we are being judged. We are aspiring business leaders and we are being judged by the content of our ideas, not the quality of our writing. So we should focus on our individual business identity and presenting that clearly and succinctly. You don't need an editor to do that. In fact the editor, in editing your writing, will try to edit your identity, and that will only hurt you.
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Resume Review 14 Nov 2010, 13:50
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Thanks for the interest and 2 cents. But, I never said I would accept any feedback. I want an objective eye to look at things for me and give me suggestions. I am very aware of myself and mature enough to know what is good advice and what is bad. I was more interested in someone advising me how I could word things more powerfully or picking up on something that is unclear to someone not in my industry/profession.

I'm still looking for reviewers from the GMAT community. Please PM me if interested.
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Resume Review Updated on: 14 Nov 2010, 14:01
Originally posted by smileyface on 14 Nov 2010, 13:56.
Last edited by smileyface on 14 Nov 2010, 14:01, edited 1 time in total.
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smileyface
I'm looking for someone to review my resume; looking for a second eye to check for errors and to give me pointers about how it could improve. If you have a resume you want looked at, we can swap resumes. Send me a PM if interested. Thank you for your attention.

I think this is a bad idea. If other people get involved in your application, it loses its voice. This is just as true of resumes as it is of essays. You can google up plenty of good general pointers for resumes. That's really all the advice you would ever need. If you haven't done the introspection to understand yourself, your career, and how to present it, then that is a more fundamental problem that won't be solved by superficial advice from strangers who just further dilute your unique identity. Sorry for the rant, just my $0.02. You have to have confidence in yourself.

You don't get your essays reviewed by another person?

Editing doesn't have to make something lose its voice. You'd never find a professional writer without an editor, for example. This seems like bad advice.
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Very true. Everyone could use a third person reviewer. I think dundundun is afraid of getting negative feedback and that can hurt him/her in the long run. The key is to know what feedback to accept and what to reject. Not every feedback should be acted on. Still, having that third person look can only help. That person can see things that you cant see because you are so close to your work. On the other hand, having a small village review and acting on every piece of feedback is time wasting and a bad idea.
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dundundun

I had a family member read my app for typos etc but that's it. I'm a pretty militant believer that 3rd party advice on how to present yourself is counterproductive. We're not professional writers and that is not the standard by which we are being judged. We are aspiring business leaders and we are being judged by the content of our ideas, not the quality of our writing. So we should focus on our individual business identity and presenting that clearly and succinctly. You don't need an editor to do that. In fact the editor, in editing your writing, will try to edit your identity, and that will only hurt you.
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While this may work for you, I feel this may be extremely bad advice for many people. We are being judged on how well we present our ideas, as well as the content. Not everyone is a superb writer, and failing to have someone make sure that an essay flows and represents the author the correct way can be detrimental.

Just like in an interviewer, where your demeanor, communication skills, and professionalism are just as important as what you say, the essays are more than just content. It is not only about "what" you say, but "how" you say it.

That being said, I think many people -are- capable of succeeding without having someone proofread, edit, or reword their essays. Many people, who do not write on a regular basis, need more guidance.
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dundundun
Jeanette


You don't get your essays reviewed by another person?

Editing doesn't have to make something lose its voice. You'd never find a professional writer without an editor, for example. This seems like bad advice.

I had a family member read my app for typos etc but that's it. I'm a pretty militant believer that 3rd party advice on how to present yourself is counterproductive. We're not professional writers and that is not the standard by which we are being judged. We are aspiring business leaders and we are being judged by the content of our ideas, not the quality of our writing. So we should focus on our individual business identity and presenting that clearly and succinctly. You don't need an editor to do that. In fact the editor, in editing your writing, will try to edit your identity, and that will only hurt you.
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I disagree with this as well. It's pretty widespread advice to have one or two people review your stuff for both content and typos - even Stanford suggests it. That doesn't mean you do whatever they suggest, but they may give you areas to consider. If you have any critical thinking skills at all, you can determine the value of the advice you receive and how to proceed in your own voice, with your own ideas.
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uprightcitizen
While this may work for you, I feel this may be extremely bad advice for many people. We are being judged on how well we present our ideas, as well as the content. Not everyone is a superb writer, and failing to have someone make sure that an essay flows and represents the author the correct way can be detrimental.

Just like in an interviewer, where your demeanor, communication skills, and professionalism are just as important as what you say, the essays are more than just content. It is not only about "what" you say, but "how" you say it.

That being said, I think many people -are- capable of succeeding without having someone proofread, edit, or reword their essays. Many people, who do not write on a regular basis, need more guidance.
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I really don't think you need to be a superb writer to nail a b school essay without third party help. We are not writing for the new yorker here people. Anyone who can write a standard business memo can write a well-written b school essay - if they give it enough time and effort. Any perception otherwise is a misperception encouraged by consulstants and authors peddling on the fear of applicants.

I give and receive feedback all the time at work. My career goals are the product of a lot of discussion and feedback. But my application isn't. Leaders always have to struggle with when to listen and when to lay out their own vision, and I am a firm believer your applications are a time to lay out a vision.

Much luck to all of you, I'm sure we will all find successful conclusions to this process, but I really do think you each have all the answers you need inside of you, if you take the time to look, and you are only hurting yourself by looking to strangers for help presenting yourself. Have confidence in yourself.
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tortoiserun
I disagree with this as well. It's pretty widespread advice to have one or two people review your stuff for both content and typos - even Stanford suggests it.
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Ok, for the record, here is what Stanford says on their website, I think your are misinterpreting it:

Quote:
Feel free to ask your friends or family members to provide constructive feedback. When you ask for feedback, ask if the essays' tone sounds like your voice. It should. Your family and friends know you better than anyone else. If they do not believe that the essays capture who you are, how you live, what you believe, and what you aspire to do, then surely the Committee on Admissions will be unable to recognize what is most distinctive about you.

There is a big difference, however, between 'feedback' and 'coaching.' There are few hard and fast rules, but you cross a line when any part of the application (excluding the Letters of Reference) ceases to be exclusively yours in either thought or word.

Appropriate feedback occurs when you show someone your completed application, perhaps one or two times, and are apprised of errors or omissions.

In contrast, inappropriate coaching occurs when your application or your self-presentation is colored by someone else.

You best serve your own interests when your personal thoughts, individual voice, and unique style remain intact at the end of your editing process.

It is improper and a violation of the spirit of the Fundamental Standard and Honor Code to have someone else write any part of your Stanford MBA Program application. Such an act will result in denial of your application or withdrawal of your offer of admission.
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My boss is an excellent leader. Smart, charismatic, quick mind. But the guy -can't- write a good memo. He's smart enough to recognize this short-coming, and I proofread anything before he sends it out.

Some people need guidance in writing. It is not a comment on their success in other parts of business. Needing someone to edit your essays is not a comment on how successful you will be in school, nor will it necessarily change your voice.

A top business school would be lucky to have my boss, but he would never be capable of writing essays that were compelling, expressive, or coherent enough. That being said, I'm sure he would be bright enough to have someone to edit them. The same way he had someone proofread his recommendations for me for b-school.

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Resume Review 14 Nov 2010, 14:27
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I disagree with this as well. It's pretty widespread advice to have one or two people review your stuff for both content and typos - even Stanford suggests it.

Ok, for the record, here is what Stanford says on their website, I think your are misinterpreting it:

Quote:
Feel free to ask your friends or family members to provide constructive feedback. When you ask for feedback, ask if the essays' tone sounds like your voice. It should. Your family and friends know you better than anyone else. If they do not believe that the essays capture who you are, how you live, what you believe, and what you aspire to do, then surely the Committee on Admissions will be unable to recognize what is most distinctive about you.

There is a big difference, however, between 'feedback' and 'coaching.' There are few hard and fast rules, but you cross a line when any part of the application (excluding the Letters of Reference) ceases to be exclusively yours in either thought or word.

Appropriate feedback occurs when you show someone your completed application, perhaps one or two times, and are apprised of errors or omissions.

In contrast, inappropriate coaching occurs when your application or your self-presentation is colored by someone else.

You best serve your own interests when your personal thoughts, individual voice, and unique style remain intact at the end of your editing process.

It is improper and a violation of the spirit of the Fundamental Standard and Honor Code to have someone else write any part of your Stanford MBA Program application. Such an act will result in denial of your application or withdrawal of your offer of admission.
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Yes, I read it thoroughly. Perhaps it's just an issue of interpretation of what editing means. Having people make a couple suggestions for clarity and strength of message is one thing. I'm not suggesting that you have others make massive overhauls of your essays or change your voice. But we can just agree to disagree here.
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tortoiserun
Yes, I read it thoroughly. Perhaps it's just an issue of interpretation of what editing means. Having people make a couple suggestions for clarity and strength of message is one thing. I'm not suggesting that you have others make massive overhauls of your essays or change your voice. But we can just agree to disagree here.
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Agreed.

But one parting point to the OP: I think there is a bright line between advice from family/friends who know you, and advice from strangers. I think advice from strangers will do more harm than good. Hopefully we can all agree that GMAT Club, while a great source for camaraderie, scuttlebutt, and etc., is not a good source to find editing advice. Stick to people who know you.
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In any consulting setting, you always always always have an independent colleague review any work product going to a client (unless you're not overly concerned about your reputation). It's not about whether we are professional writers, it's about being human and the propensity to make silly mistakes. And you don't have to use edits you don't agree with -- as Ron Burgundy said, "I wanna say something. I'm gonna put it out there; if you like it, you can take it, if you don't, send it right back."
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Like I said.... there are always time when feedback is a good idea.... but also times when it is not.... given a) you have months to get your application right, plenty of time to catch silly mistakes.... and b) your application is more competitive the more personal it is.... I would submit to you that your comparison is not 100% applicable.... it's your application and your call but my #1 priority in mine is keeping it personal.... I think it's easy to say "I can just reject feedback I don't like" but so much of the personality/voice of an app is communicated subconsciously by the fact that YOU actually wrote it, and I don't think any of us are smart enough to replicate that, at least not to the same degree that you aren't at a disadvantage.... and why would you risk it, if you can catch most of the silly mistakes yourself anyways (given the importance of this document and the time you have to work on it)...

brainhurt
In any consulting setting, you always always always have an independent colleague review any work product going to a client (unless you're not overly concerned about your reputation). It's not about whether we are professional writers, it's about being human and the propensity to make silly mistakes. And you don't have to use edits you don't agree with -- as Ron Burgundy said, "I wanna say something. I'm gonna put it out there; if you like it, you can take it, if you don't, send it right back."
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Interesting debate. I'm personally of the opinion that a resume review is pretty safe any way you cut it. Resumes aren't meant to capture "who you are" or your degree of self-awareness, introspection or other terribly touchy feely stuff. This isn't you writing about your passions in life, its you attempting to document your experiences.

Moreover, resumes in an application setting are almost always read by people with little or no exposure to your function or industry. Imagine reading the resume of a research assistant at a particle physics lab. It might be a fantastic resume and mean a lot to someone in the field, but would likely be difficult to interpret by, say, an English major. Admittedly, one's ability to convey their day to day activities to a 'layperson' is something that you are expected to be able to do, but I don't think asking someone "Do you understand this, does this convey what I've done?" is unreasonable.

(This the curse of knowledge - you can't forget what you already know)
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dundundun
Like I said.... there are always time when feedback is a good idea.... but also times when it is not.... given a) you have months to get your application right, plenty of time to catch silly mistakes.... and b) your application is more competitive the more personal it is.... I would submit to you that your comparison is not 100% applicable.... it's your application and your call but my #1 priority in mine is keeping it personal.... I think it's easy to say "I can just reject feedback I don't like" but so much of the personality/voice of an app is communicated subconsciously by the fact that YOU actually wrote it, and I don't think any of us are smart enough to replicate that, at least not to the same degree that you aren't at a disadvantage.... and why would you risk it, if you can catch most of the silly mistakes yourself anyways (given the importance of this document and the time you have to work on it)...
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Everyone has to do what works for them. If that works for you, cool.

@smileyface: my advice is that it would be foolish not to have someone review every part of your app, for precisely the reasons Rhyme stated.
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I'd agree that if all you are asking is "Does this make sense? Am I missing anything?" then that is ok. But once you start fielding suggestions for alternative presentations, you are only hurting yourself, or at least not helping yourself.

I do disagree that resumes are safe no matter what. People think "oh, my resume is just a resume, no big deal" and spend all their time on their essays. I think this is a mistake. The major accomplishments you choose to include in your resume, and how you describe them, speak volumes about you and should be thoughtfully aligned with rest of app.

rhyme
Interesting debate. I'm personally of the opinion that a resume review is pretty safe any way you cut it. Resumes aren't meant to capture "who you are" or your degree of self-awareness, introspection or other terribly touchy feely stuff. This isn't you writing about your passions in life, its you attempting to document your experiences.

Moreover, resumes in an application setting are almost always read by people with little or no exposure to your function or industry. Imagine reading the resume of a research assistant at a particle physics lab. It might be a fantastic resume and mean a lot to someone in the field, but would likely be difficult to interpret by, say, an English major. Admittedly, one's ability to convey their day to day activities to a 'layperson' is something that you are expected to be able to do, but I don't think asking someone "Do you understand this, does this convey what I've done?" is unreasonable.

(This the curse of knowledge - you can't forget what you already know)
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