food for thought (need bw login)
https://forums.businessweek.com/n/pfx/fo ... &tid=69539
copied and pasted from bw forums
I graduated with an MBA from a top school (Stern) a year ago, and it's been 3 years since I've frequented these boards. I've now returned to this forum to make this post, largely to help those of you who are starting at a B-school this fall or contemplating entering in the future. This is particularly true for those of you who are major career switchers from a technical background such as me. However, I'll admit that I'm writing to get some of my negative emotions out as well.
By way of introduction, I had a BS in engineering and had 5 years of technology work experience in Northern California before entering business school. My stats were decent but nothing phenomenal (GPA 3.1, GMAT 710, passed CFA Level 2 exam). When I first applied for Fall 2002 entry, I was denied admission everywhere. I made it to two waitlists (Chicago and Stern) but neither panned out.
After a lot of hesitation, I decided to go through the hellish application process once more for Fall 2003 entry. I was admitted to 3 schools this time: Yale, CMU, and Stern. Having become so familiar with Stern by this time, I decided to go there both for its strength in finance and its NYC location. (For you West Coast and international people, NYC and the east coast in general is much different but I like it a lot).
I knew going into B-school that I wanted to make a switch into financial services. At the time, I felt the best role for me was in equity research, perhaps as a technology analyst as a leverage off of my work experience. I chose Stern for its strength in finance, but also for its NYC location.
During my first semester, I did all of the on-campus recruiting events. All of the major bulge-bracket firms came on campus. There's a lot of emphasis on getting to know people at the banks, as well as doing "informational" interviews. For me, this networking business was very new, having come from a technical background.
Within a couple of months, I decided that equity research probably wasn't for me. I realized that I enjoyed the quantitative aspect more and felt the fixed-income side better suited me. I thus pursued roles in fixed-income research.
Now, at the time, as a career switcher, I didn't know that there are two types of fixed-income research. (Some of you might not know either...). There's "credit research" which is most similar to equity research but from the fixed-income perspective. On the other side, there's "interest-rate research". This role works more closely with the trading desk on products such as Treasuries, Mortgages, Credit Derivatives, etc.
Most of the credit research people have MBA-type backgrounds whereas interest-rate types have more Math/PhD type backgrounds. Not knowing the difference at the time, I pursued the latter.
At the time, I discounted the Sales & Trading path. To me, the people I met in S&T were not my type. A lot of sales people were talkers and the traders were all gambling types. I like poker like a lot of people but didn't want to gamble at work per se. Thus, I felt this was another reason to pursue research.
When it came time to interview for the summer internships, I received 4 first-round interviews, much lower than most of my peers. I attributed this to not being focused. I got dinged from 3 interviews but somehow managed to get a second-round interview for one of the groups, which eventually turned into an offer.
During my first year, I not only pursued the job path aggressively but also studied hard. I finished with a 3.94 GPA after my first year. This was high enough to earn a significant scholarship for my second-year tuition.
I worked in a bulge-bracket firm for the summer doing fixed-income research. I realized within the first 3 weeks that this wasn't the job for me. Fortunately, I realized two things: (1) An internship is a way for one to see how s/he fits in a role, and (2) That trading was indeed a good location for me. in fact, traders in most BB firms have a good combination of math/communication skils and the front-office pay isn't bad. Fortunately, traders and FI researchers work closely so I was able to see the differences for both sides.
When I came back to Stern for my second year, unfortunately I did not get a full-time offer from my summer internship. Of course, I wasn't too surprised. Mentally, I geared myself up for the full-time interviewing process, which begins in October of the second year.
This time around, I managed to get 14 first-round interviews, both from BB banks and other firms (hedge funds, rating agencies, etc). Although I felt my interviews went fairly well, I managed to get only one second-round interview for Fixed-Income Sales and Trading. At the very least, it was what I wanted to do so I gave my very best. Unfortunately, I got dinged from the final round.
So, here it was in late October and I got nothing out of the on-campus recruiting process. I told myself that I wasn't alone and that 50% of the class found positions off-campus. I decided to focus on classes the rest of the semester and pick up the recruiting process in the Spring. In addition, I went to Hong Kong over the Winter Break, along with some first-year students, to see if I could get a position in one of the banks there, but nothing came of that.
From January 2005, I continued to do informationals and apply to as many job postings as I could. Most of the time, I wasn't able to get much, perhaps an interview here and there. When I would do an interview and the firm didn't like me, unlike with campus recruiting, one doesn't get a notification - it's pretty much "Don't call us, we'll call you." I think this is unprofessional but I've learned that this is the way a lot of firms treat candidates.
Fast-forward to May 2005, two weeks before graduation. I was still nowhere with the job search. I spoke with a friend who helped refer me to a financial advisory group doing consulting for one of the Big 4 firms. This clearly wasn't doing S&T at a big bank, but at this point I felt I was desparate and was willing to interview almost anywhere. I was fortunate enough to land a position at this firm and I quickly accepted it.
I still studied hard during my second-year but was distracted with all of my networking efforts (or "job-whoring" as I like to call it). I finished in the top 10% of my class.
After a 1-month vacation overseas, I came back to New York to start my position. I knew that there would be travel for the position, but I was shocked that I was sent coast-to-coast for 6 weeks in a row to do audit/SOX work, which has little to do with financial advisory. For better or for worse, I left shortly thereafter.
Since then, I was able to find another position doing client service work for a risk-management software firm. However, this role also required significant travel (although less than the previous role), and it's clearly not a good fit.
Right now, I am strongly contemplating a return to the west coast, where I feel I can get a new start in life. While there's fewer financial firms out there, I've now lowered my expectations considerably. If the job isn't perfect, I'll at least be close to some very good friends.
So, now that I've rambled on about my experience, what comments do I have? Several things:
(1) B-school is no guarantee of a job: You can do all of the right things - network, interview prep, good grades - but nobody can say for sure that they'll get a job, or at least the one they know is best for them.
(2) Forget about grades: If there was one thing I wish I did differently, it was not to concentrate so much on studying. Good grades don't matter in B-school since recruiters usually don't care (except for I-banking position). Focus on getting a job.
(3) Know exactly what it is you want to do: Don't form initial impressions simply based off of what you've heard. Perhaps a few S&T people tell a couple of sex jokes; that doesn't mean S&T is wrong for you if you're a conservative person. Perhaps all of your classmates want to be Goldman IB'ers...that doesn't mean you should do the same. By knowing what you want to do exactly, whether that be in Banking, Consulting, Brand Management, etc., you will significantly increase your chances of getting a job on-campus.
(4) Dinged from On-Campus Interviews?: Despite what my school's career office told me, for many students, you are screwed if you don't get a job on-campus, particularly if you're a career-switcher and need the campus-recruiting process to get you a position within a big bank or consulting firm. Any one-off position will likely be inferior or at least much harder to get.
(5) Don't accept the first offer: As painful as job-whoring is, being in a job that kills you is even worse. I was so sick of recruiting by the end of my second-year, I took the consulting position, knowing full-well that it was far from what I wanted to do. I wanted to have a job locked-up before my vacation that I didn't take the long-term view. If you don't end up with an offer - even by graduation - keep looking for what you want...or at least something that doesn't kill you.
(6) Use Headhunters: Your school's career office probably won't mention it to you, but using headhunters can be quite effective. All that buzz about networking with alumni may be helpful about learning about roles, but for the jobs that are available, headhunters are much more valuable in my opinion.
(7) Enjoy the social life: That's the one area I did do right! Regardless of the job situation, get involved and make many friends. When I was depressed about the job search over the last two years, those were the ones who helped the most...
Finally, I should just say that Stern is a great school and my experience (as far as I can tell) is unique to me. In fact, what sometimes gets me down is how successful most of the people I know were able to get jobs from on-campus recruiting or on their own.
IWanna