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Anyone else applying to Schulich for next fall? My application went in last week. A little bit of info about myself:
26/M/Canadian 760(49Q/47V/6.0AWA) 3.33 GPA BCOMM (3.55 final two years) WE: 2.5 years Economic Development
I think with your profile, you're definitely IN. no doubt about that.
And I'm thinking of applying. Since you're Canadian, I'd like to ask about employment opportunities in CA after graduating...How's my chance as immigrant? Is it easy to acquire work permit? I got the impression Schulich is well-reputed in CA, is it true, comparing to Ivey, MCGill, Rotman?
I'd like to apply to Schulich because I read a lot of scholarship there...You have any info about the scholarship 9haow many admitted student get, how much fee, etc.)
My profile, 27/M/Asian (South East Asia) 3.21 Engineering, WE: 3.5 years, engineer in oli & gas company. not yet taken GMAT (hopefully touch 700 =D)
I'm sorry, I really don't know much about employment opportunities for foreigners after graduation. I suspect the process is similar to that in America provided your home country isn't part of the English Commonwealth. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful
Application status is complete. Now starts the 4-6 week waiting game. I don't think interviews at Schulich are a mandatory part of the application process, but I hope at the very least to get a chance to interview even if not accepted. Best of luck to everyone
I noticed you started a thread for Rotman as well...just wondering if you've given any thought to Schulich vs Rotman; ie, which one you'd pick given a choice between both of these schools and what factors you would consider in making that choice. Any thoughts?
That's a really tough one. Between Rotman and Schulich I'd have a very tough decision to make. Based upon my work experience and my current career aspirations I think a Schulich education would suit my needs better, but at the same time Rotman's name value would travel further in a larger variety of industries/sectors. I'm not a finance guy although my quant skills/previous academic work etc. are strong. I enjoy NFP/Economic Development work and may find it difficult to find a position that upon graduation compensates at the level needed to pay back the much larger Rotman tuition bill. However, given that I am relatively young and inexperienced (not quite 3 years of WE) I understand that my aspirations may change and if that is the case I think the Rotman brand name may be a huge asset to have. So to answer your question I'm absolutely torn right now.
Add Desautels to the mix (I'm absolutely enamoured by the Montreal area/employment market) and if I were fortunate enough to be accepted to all three I'd have some serious decisions to make, especially if McGill's recent bold tuition increase were to be reversed.
Instead of trying to formulate the solution to a positively wonderful dilemma right now, I'm going to keep researching the respective schools, digging deeper, and doing more self-reflection to ensure that if/when the time comes to make a decision I'm as prepared as absolutely possible.
I completely agree; it's a very tough decision - a decision that I'm actually currently faced with, as a matter of fact. I've been admitted to both schools in Toronto, and my profile is somewhat similar to yours in that I have relatively little experience (exactly 2 years), and that I am interested in NFP, economic development, and similar areas. Acknowledging the fact that I haven't experienced enough to really be certain what industry/what function I plan to pursue, I really want to keep my options open, and that means I don't want to rule out management strategy, consulting, and banking.
I need to decide in the next week. So far, I have only applied to three schools, all in Canada: Rotman, Schulich, and Sauder - mostly because of the wonderful things I've heard about life in Vancouver and about how beautiful the campus is. I was recently invited to interview at Sauder, but the truth is that my heart is set on moving to Toronto, and in terms of career and long term planning, I feel Toronto is definitely a better choice for me. Rather than complicating the issue, I feel most comfortable channeling my energy into deciding between Schulich and Rotman.
Here are some of the things I'm considering:
-I've been admitted to the Schulich IMBA. There are 40 students in the IMBA class, and I'm not sure whether this is a good or a bad thing. There is a mandatory language component, and you specialize in a global trading zone and partake in a short term project in that zone. These all seem like pluses, but the problem is that the school, from what I understand, doesn't seem to assist you in finding your short term projects. If I'm going to partake in something like that, I'd want it to be meaningful, with a reputable organization so that I can build a valuable network which I can capitalize on post-grad. I'm not convinced that this will be the case. I'm also concerned that the IMBA will be viewed as something distinct form a traditional MBA by employers. I've tried to contact previous student ambassadors at Schulich to get some some insight and find out if both IMBA and MBA from Schulich are viewed equally by employers, but I've received no response.
-Tuition at Schulich seems great relative to Rotman, but I've read that this attracts students who are more concerned with lower tuitions than with the quality of their experience or with what they contribute to the MBA experience of their colleagues. I don't know how justified this is. Personally, I'm not too concerned with the higher tuition at Rotman; Rotman may take a couple of years longer to pay off than Schulich, but I feel that is something I'm willing to live with in exchange for an arguably stronger brand name and better career prospects (heard that Rotman recruiting is more extensive than that of Schulich).
-I visited Schulich last January, and I really like the facility. I wasn't overly impressed with the the Rotman facility when I saw it around the same time, but it is undergoing some major renovations which should be complete by 2012, and the new facility looks great. In terms of location, I'm drawn towards Rotman because it's located downtown TO, which is great not only for school and work, but also for life in general - food, concerts, nightlife, etc.
I'm really stuck on this decision right now, and I don't want to rush into it, but I have until next week to accept Rotman, and about three weeks after that to accept Schulich. Would it be really inappropriate to request an extension of the offer for admission to give myself enough time to be fully satisfied with my decision?
FergTron, would you add anything/have any comments relating to the factors I'm considering in this decision? Have I missed anything?
I can't speak to the IMBA program because I'm not familiar with it, but if reputation/brand is most important to you (as it should be for any MBA hopeful) I'd probably take the Rotman acceptance. Yes the tuition is greater, but as you pointed out the brand is well known and you can be fairly certain of your potential career prospects based on the recruiters coming to campus and the alumni network whereas the IMBA seems to be a lot less certain. The fact that your projects may have to be found individually and without assistance from a career resource department makes that big plus a potential negative if you can't secure work for a prominant organization. I think at this point assuming you don't learn anything new about the IMBA program through students/alum I'd defer to the safer bet in Rotman, even if it is more expensive.
On an unrelated note, I was contacted today by Schulich adcom stating that I would have to be reviewed as a "special case" based upon my poor grades in law school. I have a pretty strong undergraduate business background and GMAT score, but since the law school grades were within my last two years of "university level study" those count towards my GPA. I'm not really sure what this means for me at this point but I'd be pretty disappointed if a bad decision to pursue law school (I withdrew in 2nd semester of 2nd year) burdened me with a bunch of Dings this cycle. Its the school's policy to calculate GPA in that manner but I've never understood why my law school grades (significantly harder to score above a B) should be measured against someone else's bachelor grades, especially when I've got a strong undergraduate record myself. Anyway, enough ranting, I just figured I'd give some information regarding my situation as well.
I'm a Schulich student and I can answer some of your guys' concerns.
I went through the same dilemma as you guys in deciding between admits to Rotman and Schulich. I visited both campuses and found Schulich to be a master in tailoring my visit to what I was interested in (Arts & Media and Marketing). They took me around the campus and building and gave me all the haps on what I could expect. Rotman, however, didn't seem too interested in anything besides telling me what a great reputation they had.
I eventually chose Schulich because they are a better business school brand and they really allow you to explore. Rotman is heavily financed focused. They basically told me that I would eat, sleep, and breathe quantitative courses. Schulich has a lot of quantitative requirements (two accounting courses, a stats course, a finance class, and an economics class), but nowhere near what Rotman requires. Rotman has limited options for studies, whereas Schulich has several which are exclusive to their school in Canada (such as Not-For-Profit, Green Business, and Arts & Media Management). Another big plus is that all 5 major bank and the four largest media conglomerates CEO's all came from Schulich (of course - they aren't the ones recruiting, but it helps ).
By saying it is a business school brand, I mean that it is the only school in Canada known more for its brand as opposed to its university brand. Desautels, Ivey, and Rotman all come from very reputable schools, but I guarantee you if you say Rotman or Desautels, you will always have to present it as McGill or UofT. Schulich, as part of York, is not one of the most respected universities in Canada, but it has allowed the school to develop a masterful business program and a brand that is on its own. This can be a good thing or a bad thing, it's pretty subjective. I like it because I can say Schulich and everyone knows where the heck I am and what kind of business school student I might be.
The full time MBA has two course types - required and optional. In your first semester, you are split into a section of students which is between 40-60 people. In the classes I sat in at Rotman, it was exactly the same - but Rotman does this the entire first year while Schulich is only half of the year. Optional classes are anywhere from 15 to 50 students, depending on the subject matter. A class like Negotiations is super popular and always waitlisted, but classes like Managing in the Broadcast World would be more along the 15-25 people range.
The IMBA class is one of Schulich's bread and butter. They get a lot perks and attention the wider MBA class doesn't, but they are together the entire year as well. They have a heavier workload than regular MBAs, but I don't think it is unmanageable.
Schulich has a HUGE piggy bank that it gives scholarships from. Most of my friends received entrance scholarships or bursaries if they applied early enough. These range anywhere between 2k and 20k.
One thing I can say is much better at Schulich than Rotman is the social life. The Graduate Business Council has a bar night every week and there is a large amount of clubs at the school who also facilitate social events. I know Rotman has had a huge problem doing this and students often feel isolated. I think this is mainly due to the fact that most Rotman students are from the GTA, whereas 90% of Schulich students come from other areas of Canada or the Globe.
Essentially, the decision is up to you. I don't think basing a decision on brand recognition is a necessity since the only three real biz-schools with strong brands in Canada are Ivey, Schulich, and Rotman. Desautels and Sauder are Tier 2 in Canadian terms, but I'm sure they offer as good of an education as Schulich.
I can answer any other concerns you guys have, just post 'em here (or if I didn't give enough info about something).
Hello! Great discussion here so I thought I would contribute. I have recently been admitted to IMBA program at Schulich and I have already accepted the offer. I have also been faced with the Ivey/Rotman/Schulich dilemma. Since admission standards are very similar in all three institutions, I have decided to tackle the dilemma then and apply to only one of the programs and a safety school (Sauder) where admission standards are slightly lower. To be honest I don't know a single person from any of the schools I have listed. So, I have based my decision on the feedback of York and UofT non-business alumni, publications of magazines such as FT, the Economist, and BW. Also, I have read articles from couple think tanks and extensively browsed through the info provided by the schools themselves. I have done a lot of thinking and self reflection back at the time of my application (early Nov) and here is what I came up with:
U.S. schools were quickly out of the picture because of ridiculous tuitions, lack of focus on issues which lay outside of the U.S. economy and I think, that U.S. business school dominance will soon be dissolved as "MBA fever" will progress. American schools were the inventors of an MBA, that is why they have an upper hand right now. However, numerous universities outside USA are seeking to develop their own MBA programs as the need for such graduates is on the rise, especially in the booming financial sectors. I predict that schools like HKUST and some others (including Canadian trio) will challenge dominance of top tier American schools in the near future. Highly debatable point im making, but it is my position.
I chose to pass on Ivey because it seems that they are one dimensional school. By that I mean that the school is geared towards finance/consulting and that's it. Their course offerings in the spheres outside finance and consulting are very weak in my opinion.
Rotman was my #1 choice all along right up until it came to a decision time. I love Rotman's ambition of being top 10 program. I am also attracted by their integrative thinking approach. The reputation of the school in finance and consulting is a huge bonus! Unlike many schools, it seems to me that Rotman at least makes an attempt to develop faculties outside of finance/consulting. What drew me back from the school, however, was its administration. I have gotten a sense from multiple sources that UofT is more about satisfying an ego rather than getting something accomplished. I may be wrong, but I think Rotman is the same way. The way they are parading their accomplishment in the field of finance certainly enforces that opinion. In other words, this is an institution without a vision. Their dean always publishes a statement the same day FT rankings come out explaining what events lead to the schools given performance. They are obsessed with their reputation more than with their accomplishments!
Schulich was a perfect fit! It is a program with a vision! I like how they are internationally focused. I think that capital is very mobile in today's economic reality and international focus is very important in understanding business on the whole. It is absolutely fantastic that the school develops programs outside of the finance/consulting streams. I think that business is very complex and multidimensional and it is absolutely essential for the business schools to develop expertise in multiple areas. I feel that Schulich is a very progressive school and I think its superior track record in sustainable development & corporate social responsibility definitely proves it. Although, I am sceptical of their development and social responsibility initiatives because Nestle and HP in particular seem to be involved (both companies have a track record of resisting social responsibility and sustainable development). Never the less, it is nice that Schulich at least willing to put these issues in the spot light. As for finance/consulting prospects, im no expert, but if your browse sites of the 5 major Canadian banks and their capital markets divisions, you will find a great amount of Schulich grads. I do not think that your chances of getting into I-banking or consulting are worse at Schulich compared to Rotman or Ivey. Its only my speculation, but I think if we would exclude those graduates that chose to concentrate in the development, public and non-for profit sectors from salary surveys, I think Schulich would outperform Rotman and Ivey.
In general, I find York very good place to study. Everyone has always expressed how this university on the whole is student friendly and socially conscience. Institution that I have obtained my undergrad degree from employed quite a few York PhD's, and I must admit that they have stood out from the crowd. As far as UofT vs York reputation goes... York is much younger institution. Yet, it challenges UofT in many departments especially in law and business. I think that York is an outstanding school and will continue to be so...
I got a question for krussell though. Its not the first time I have heard that Schulich puts a lot of effort in its IMBA program. Can you elaborate on that? Can you explain what kind of "perks" and "attention" you are exactly talking about? Also, do you have any idea how the recruiters view IMBA vs MBA. Im asking because I find IMBA to be somewhat limited at times because it constrains your ability to obtain numerous certificates and diplomas Schulich offers. Thanks!
The IMBA class is almost exclusively separate during the first year of studies from the other 5 cohorts or the MF and MPA students. No one is allowed to register to take a class with the IMBA students and vice-versa. They have mostly the same courses as MBAs, but there is slight variation.
Like I said, they do have a slightly heavier course load than MBA students and I think this is the reason Schulich tries to give them certain attention that other students don't have. For example, they have a defined career counselor for their class, whereas other MBAs go to a career counselor based on the counselor's individual expertise (OB, Marketing, Finance, Real Estate etc.).
IMBAs also must complete an internship as part of their coursework and I'm sure Schulich provides means to do so because it has to be internationally based, while other students are left to their devices.
The IMBA program is fairly unique to Schulich and is their bread a butter because of it's "global business school" brand. Without the 70+ exchanges from MBA students and the mandatory language proficiency and international internship that IMBA students must complete, it's harder to promote as a global school.
But, I'm in MBA - not IMBA. So it may be different to someone actually in the class.
As far as certificates go, I'm not sure exactly how it would stop you. For one of my two concentrations (Arts & Media), there is a diploma option and there is an IMBA working towards that as well his graduate degree. I'm not sure about the other specific diplomas/certificates like CFA or the Financial Engineering diploma though.
krussell, if you are still reading this thread; I am trying to decide on my major right now. Im considering marketing. Do you know how are the placement rates for marketing at Schulich? Do many companies hire for marketing positions? Im particularly interested in a retail marketing consulting.