still time to take GMAT and apply for R1?

Question

is it too late at this point to study for the gmat, fill out all the essays/apps and still apply (competitively) for R1 to elite schools? can it be done? 1 month for gmat and 1 month for essays/apps?

kwam · Answer

It depends on how long you will take to study for the GMAT, last year I took mine in mid September and I had time for 2 R1s (with a very demanding work).

If you start studying now, you may take in Sep, and them work full time for essays; however, I don't think you will have time for a second GMAT chance, and still apply for R1.

riverripper · Answer

Its possible. Depends on your GMAT abilities. There are some people who after doing a little refreshing and learning what the test covers could break a 700 without much studying. I would say go for it but if you arent satisfied with your applications dont submit them until R2. If you can study and take the gmat by the end of August or beginning of September that will leave you about 1.5 to 2.5 months for applications (depending on the schools you want) which is enough.

Remember last year many schools didnt release application materials until mid to late august. Some did even release them until September.

The toughest thing for you is that you wont have time for a retake of the GMAT.

Remember last year many schools didnt release application materials until mid to late august. Some did even release them until September.

The toughest thing for you is that you wont have time for a retake of the GMAT.

terp26 · Answer

Review question types, concepts for a week, take a gmatprep test and find out where you stand and report back to us.

VictoryMBA · Answer

I agree with terp26...

I'm going to take my GMAT on September 8, however I started studying back in May. I needed the time however because I don't have a quant background, so it has taken me longer to bone up on all the concepts. But if you're comfortable with a lot of what's on the GMAT, then you could very well break 700 with only a few weeks worth of studying. Take a diag and see where you stand, then go from there...

And you can do a retake if you take the GMAT in early Sept, you'll just have to work on essays at the same time...eek.

Yahsek · Answer

I don't see why you can't do both simultaneously. While it will be very time consuming, it can't hurt to study for the GMAT and outline your essay topics at the same time. You'd be on a very strict timeline, so you'll really only have one shot at the GMAT. If you don't get your desired score then you may have to push your applications back until after your re-take.

rhyme · Answer

The disadvantage to doing both now is very simple (and quite real): Forced to divide your limited time and effort, you put in less than your best in both, likely resulting in a weaker gmat and a weaker set of essays. That leads to a fairly predictable outcome.

The only exception I think would be for those who simply study a week and score a 720. There are those people. For the rest of us however, a 700+ score implied several hundred hours of studying.

My own estimates of my effort have likely varied a lot, but to give you an idea, at the very least I put in:

3 hours per class for 10 weeks = 30 hours
1 to 2 hours per day during the week for those 10 weeks = 5x10x2 = 100 hours 
A minimum of at least 5 practice exams (call it 4 hours each) = 20 hours (although its probably more like 10 to 12 practice exams total)
3 actual exams = 12 hours
8 hours a day every Sunday for at least 8 weeks with a study partner = 64 hours
Another 5 hours a week during the week for the month after my 2nd failed attempt = 20 hours

Add it up... I easily put in 200+ hours, and frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if the real total exceeded 300. That's to say nothing of the hours I put into my essays, which although I have no good estimate for, was certainly quite substantial. Don't forget the time that you end up using up working with recommendations, reminding bosses of your accomplishments, following up to ensure it gets done, getting old transcripts, transcribing them, triple checking them twelve times just in case, looking up addresses of old firms, salaries, fixing your resume, obtaining copies of school materials, reading the materials, reaching out to students, gathering data points, narrowing your school list, preparing for interviews, visiting campuses, etc etc. Note how that list doesn't even include the actual essays or going to work!

Thats not to scare you of course, it can be done, but you should understand what you are getting yourself into if you try to do them both concurrently. I personally think you are much better served to take the GMAT, then worry about your essays, but thats just my opinion.

The first step is to take a diagnostic test (take it all, do NOT SKIP THE AWA, people do thinking it doesnt make a difference but it ABSOLUTELY does. The GMAT tests your endurance a much as it tests anything else), see how you do and go from there.

dominion · Answer

I like Rhyme. Thanks for the candor and reality check.

kryzak · Answer

don't underestimate the time it takes to do the applications. Like rhyme said, while the time it takes varies between people for the GMAT and apps, you'll need AT LEAST one good month of studying every night and weekend to get a good GMAT score (unless you're one of those awesome people

). As for apps, you want AT LEAST 1.5 months to get all the recommenders ready, school research, resumes, work history, EC history, fill out applications, and of course, the essays. Here's a timeline for me last year: GMAT: Started studying early July, took test early August. It depends on your diagnostic test and your first GMATPrep test. I guess I was lucky that math is not hard for me (engineer trained) and RC/CR came simple to me. Most of the studying was in Sentence Correction (isn't it obvious in my posts? :wink:

). If you need to study for more than one section, then add 2-4 more weeks to the prep time. Applications: Resumes, Work History, EC history - 1 week (using work hours, night hours, and weekends - thank goodness work wasn't too busy) Recommender Guide - 1 week First set of essays outlines - 1 week First set of essays drafts - 1 week Final "cleanup" and editing - 1-2 weeks School Research, Applications, Class Visits, Informational Interviews - Roughly 1-2 weeks total time So that's about 1.5 months for your first school. And remember, your first set probably won't be that great (I did Berkeley first, and then looked back at it after I submitted Stanford and UCLA, to realize how crappy those essays were. And I thought I was done too!

) After that your 2nd set will be MUCH easier. 2nd Set Essay Outlines - 0.5 week 2nd Set Essay Drafts - 1 week 2nd Set Essay Edits and Polish - 1-2 weeks and so forth. Remember, you need to give your editor/readers time to comment and critique, which often takes 1-2 weeks. Granted, you can do other things during that time, but keep that in mind. Also, Recommenders NEED to get the recommendation packets AT LEAST 1 month in advance. Even then, they will procrastinate and probably won't write it until the weekend before it's due. You'll have to manage your recommenders intelligently, which will take up some of your time. So what am I trying to say with all that? If you start studying now, and you're one of those very smart ones, then you'll take the GMAT in early September, and will probably get ONE, at most 2 sets of applications (pick two that overlap in essay topics as much as possible) by R1, which are normally mid-October. You can aim for a 2nd school that has R1 due in November, like Berkeley-Haas or NYU. That may work out better. I would probably do "safer" schools in R1 and your top choices in R2 in this case. Otherwise, you'll end up like rhyme said, mediocre in both GMAT and application.

tuck20xx · Answer

wow thanks guys. very insightful.

rhyme · Answer

tuck, also see: 8-p501365?t=68124#p501365

FN · Answer

guys need your advice, i recently took my gmat and completely bombed it..i typically score 730-780 on my gmatpreps but ended up scoring much much lower..i think it was a serious case of nerves..too much drama before my exam..so i am thinking of re-taking gmat end of august and apply R1 to at least 4 or 5 ultra-elite schools...

i m already looking at essays and gathering data points from my past to write-up essays..my biggest problem is my recommendors are extremely lazyor busy.and have asked me write up drafts for them to review...i dont think i can write up 8-9 letters in this time...what do you guys think??

Do you think i can manage to write 4-5 b-school essays by oct and still have some time to review for my gmat and write draft letters?

rhyme · Answer

If you really "bombed" your GMAT and can score 730+ with minimal studying, I'd probably go for it. Sounds like it would be relatively little effort, right?

I think your situation is a bit different than that of the original poster - in his case, he needs to study an unknown amount which could easily be hundreds of hours - in your case, you need to "maintain" your level, which should be a comparatively easier task.

JohnLewis1980 · Answer

Thank you so much for this post kryzak,

I was looking exactly for something similar.

Do you think international students have similar chances to get into for both R1 and R2?

Cheers

kryzak · Answer

Not sure, but schools generally ask international students to apply before R3 due to visa issues. Other than that, I'm guessing the chances are the same as the domestic students.

kwam · Answer

My experience and that from international students I talked too is the same: the sooner the better. Schools usually say to avoid the last round as Kryzak mentioned because of bureaucracy (and believe me for some people living in some countries this will be an issue). Having said that, I think that some schools such as: CBS, Stanford, Haas and Tuck, you should def go for R1 or ED.

JohnLewis1980 · Answer

kwam, do you really think that Haas penalizes international students on R2? mmmm, I think I have to replan my strategy...

Cheers

kwam · Answer

Not that penalizes, but the class is so small that if Haas is one of your top choices, apply if are able in R1, but I think Kryzak can help you better with these.

kryzak · Answer

kwam is right, there are just so few spots that if there are great candidates for R1, they can only reserve so many spots open for R2 and beyond. Granted, there is the waitlist, but I think from this past year's experience, much fewer people got off the waitlist (no # yet, but I'll report it when I find out) than before, and only 1-2 people (that we know of) got in from GMATClub in R2, versus 4 or so for R1. I don't think anyone here got in R3 or after...

JohnLewis1980 · Answer

mmm ok, I've cheked the deadline for R1 and I think I have enough time: november 4th 2008

kryzak, what you say makes a lot of sense, many thanks for your advice!

Cheers

still time to take GMAT and apply for R1?

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