Last visit was: 14 May 2026, 01:38 It is currently 14 May 2026, 01:38
Close
GMAT Club Daily Prep
Thank you for using the timer - this advanced tool can estimate your performance and suggest more practice questions. We have subscribed you to Daily Prep Questions via email.

Customized
for You

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

Track
Your Progress

every week, we’ll send you an estimated GMAT score based on your performance

Practice
Pays

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History
Not interested in getting valuable practice questions and articles delivered to your email? No problem, unsubscribe here.
Close
Request Expert Reply
Confirm Cancel
User avatar
sebycb976
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Last visit: 20 Jun 2010
Posts: 59
Own Kudos:
413
 [1]
Posts: 59
Kudos: 413
 [1]
1
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
User avatar
kidderek
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Last visit: 13 Jul 2019
Posts: 1,959
Own Kudos:
Posts: 1,959
Kudos: 371
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
User avatar
sm332
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Last visit: 26 Apr 2011
Posts: 449
Own Kudos:
Given Kudos: 16
Schools:F2010 - HBS (R1 - denied w/o interview ), INSEAD (R1 - admitted), Wharton (R1 - waitlisted & ding), Ivey (R2 - admitted w/ 60% tuition)
GPA: 3.8
WE 1: 3.5yrs as a Strategy Consultant - Big 4
Products:
Posts: 449
Kudos: 39
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
User avatar
sebycb976
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Last visit: 20 Jun 2010
Posts: 59
Own Kudos:
Posts: 59
Kudos: 413
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Good point...but isn't that exactly what this article talks about? We are taught to think in a certain way, react within set boundries, etc. Why would it need to give meaningful ways to rectify the problem? Just because we are taught to think in a "problem - solution" type fashion from a very early age? Some of the best thinkers in contemporary times have not necessary given solutions for a specific problem but tried to steer the audience to their own conclusions...the trully intelligent people the article talks about.

I don't know...just some food for thought. I am not against Ivy Leagues and will apply to them as well, but the somewhat devastating consequences mentioned here, I have experienced first hand in my "elite" professional background, and personally I find it sad and depressing...
User avatar
Raabend
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 16 May 2008
Last visit: 17 Mar 2016
Posts: 884
Own Kudos:
Given Kudos: 29
Location: Earth
Concentration: Brand
Schools:Cornell '11
Posts: 884
Kudos: 156
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
I went up to the McDonald's drivethru and I COULDNT THINK OF WHAT TO SAY!!!!!!!!!
User avatar
sm332
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Last visit: 26 Apr 2011
Posts: 449
Own Kudos:
Given Kudos: 16
Schools:F2010 - HBS (R1 - denied w/o interview ), INSEAD (R1 - admitted), Wharton (R1 - waitlisted & ding), Ivey (R2 - admitted w/ 60% tuition)
GPA: 3.8
WE 1: 3.5yrs as a Strategy Consultant - Big 4
Products:
Posts: 449
Kudos: 39
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
I think that is a little bit of a cop-out ... the reason problem-solution thinking or the more evolved systems thinking is advocated is that it enables us to proactively find meaningful ways of answering vexing questions.

In any case, I didnt go to an elite UG and rubbed shoulders with all sorts. It was instructive in its own way but at every step I lamented the lack of sheer intellectual horsepower of the majority of my class. I would have occasionally liked to have been able to say 'mate, you opened my eyes to a different perspective' but it rarely happened. Most of the folks were too busy working part time and finding solutions to the more germane day to day challenges they faced.

I am not sure where this takes us .... but it certainly provides food for thought.

sebycb976
Good point...but isn't that exactly what this article talks about? We are taught to think in a certain way, react within set boundries, etc. Why would it need to give meaningful ways to rectify the problem? Just because we are taught to think in a "problem - solution" type fashion from a very early age? Some of the best thinkers in contemporary times have not necessary given solutions for a specific problem but tried to steer the audience to their own conclusions...the trully intelligent people the article talks about.

I don't know...just some food for thought. I am not against Ivy Leagues and will apply to them as well, but the somewhat devastating consequences mentioned here, I have experienced first hand in my "elite" professional background, and personally I find it sad and depressing...
User avatar
lepium
Joined: 24 Sep 2006
Last visit: 22 Oct 2012
Posts: 1,359
Own Kudos:
Posts: 1,359
Kudos: 209
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
I think the article's author still doesn't get it. It's him that's the problem, not the education. If he wanted to be able to relate to the common man, he would have engaged in conversations with him along the years. I don't buy the argument of "school taught me to think everyone was beneath me". All I read is:"I'm a spoilt 35 year old kid who has not matured yet".

I do agree with the ethnic vs income diversity at Ivies, although schools are going to great lengths to try and revert this trend (by offering free tuition to students from low income families and so on).

L.
User avatar
jasonc
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Last visit: 09 Sep 2011
Posts: 199
Own Kudos:
Given Kudos: 3
Posts: 199
Kudos: 79
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
lepium
I think the article's author still doesn't get it. It's him that's the problem, not the education. If he wanted to be able to relate to the common man, he would have engaged in conversations with him along the years. I don't buy the argument of "school taught me to think everyone was beneath me". All I read is:"I'm a spoilt 35 year old kid who has not matured yet".

I do agree with the ethnic vs income diversity at Ivies, although schools are going to great lengths to try and revert this trend (by offering free tuition to students from low income families and so on).

L.

I'd argue that the author does get it, and he realizes that he is part of the problem (and as a professor, part of the education). He realizes this through attempting to have a conversation with the common man.

I don't think its a maturity issue and instead is more of a 'sheltered' issue. People who attend elite institutions tend to be very sheltered from people in a different socioeconomic class.
I do agree with you on that the school doesn't determine everything. For him, it maybe so, but thats because hes been in the elite college environment (as a teacher) for so long.
Most people who attend an elite institution, while in school, may be as the author describes, but after graduation a good number do not pursue jobs that will further shelter themselves.
And of those that do choose a typical job for graduates of elite institutions - can still be exposed to, and related to the common man through volunteer activities, and other community events to widen his/her social circle.

The ethnic thing is tiring, I don't believe that Asian Americans should be (as is the case in many states/institutions) reverse discriminated against just for the sake of ethnic diversity.
I agree that income diversity should be a focus and not ethnic diversity (it just doesn't seem right when low income Chinese Americans - I know quite a few - can't get into a half decent school while rich Native American/Hispanic American/African American - I also know quite a few - can get in great schools with half the effort).
User avatar
isa
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Last visit: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 1,687
Own Kudos:
Given Kudos: 31
Concentration: Healthcare, Strategy, MC
Schools:Kellogg '11
Posts: 1,687
Kudos: 224
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Is it bad my first reaction to this guy was "get over it"? :roll:
User avatar
msday
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Last visit: 09 Jul 2014
Posts: 515
Own Kudos:
Given Kudos: 28
Concentration: General Management
Schools:Harvard '11
GMAT 1: 790 Q51 V48
Posts: 515
Kudos: 64
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
jasonc

The ethnic thing is tiring, I don't believe that Asian Americans should be (as is the case in many states/institutions) reverse discriminated against just for the sake of ethnic diversity.
I agree that income diversity should be a focus and not ethnic diversity (it just doesn't seem right when low income Chinese Americans - I know quite a few - can't get into a half decent school while rich Native American/Hispanic American/African American - I also know quite a few - can get in great schools with half the effort).

I couldn't agree with this more. I've seen too many privileged "real" minorities get opportunities that poor, self-made non-minorities couldn't even imagine.
avatar
ghgirl
avatar
Current Student
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Last visit: 12 Oct 2008
Posts: 37
Own Kudos:
Posts: 37
Kudos: 2
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
msday86
jasonc

The ethnic thing is tiring, I don't believe that Asian Americans should be (as is the case in many states/institutions) reverse discriminated against just for the sake of ethnic diversity.
I agree that income diversity should be a focus and not ethnic diversity (it just doesn't seem right when low income Chinese Americans - I know quite a few - can't get into a half decent school while rich Native American/Hispanic American/African American - I also know quite a few - can get in great schools with half the effort).

I couldn't agree with this more. I've seen too many privileged "real" minorities get opportunities that poor, self-made non-minorities couldn't even imagine.


Its very interesting to me when people make this argument....its as if they forget that there are so many WEALTHY Chinese Americans who take spots as well....why is the assumption that the rich Native American/Hispanic American/African American is taking the spot which should belong to the poor Chinese American....why is it not the wealthy Chinese American who is taking the spot of the poor Chinese American...

Its funny how people advocate that the poor self-made non-minorities should be getting the FEW opportunities which the minorities (the unfortunate thing here is that these few opportunities go the wealthy minorities mostly...and the poor minorities have a double challenge...their wealth and their race) get....how about we just forget abt minorities altogether...give their opportunities to the poor non-minorities who will enjoy with the rich non-minorities and all the great opportunities life has to offer will be for the non-minorities.....

hmmmn the sense of entitlement is very interesting....how abt arguing that poorer non-minorities should get opportunities which the RICHER non-minorities (lets not forget that this group, the RICHER non-minorities by far get majority of the opportunities available)....it is unfortunate that the few spots that minorities get go to the rich ones but the solution is not to take it away altogether....after all, there are many poor minorities to....
User avatar
jasonc
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Last visit: 09 Sep 2011
Posts: 199
Own Kudos:
Given Kudos: 3
Posts: 199
Kudos: 79
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
ghgirl
msday86
jasonc

The ethnic thing is tiring, I don't believe that Asian Americans should be (as is the case in many states/institutions) reverse discriminated against just for the sake of ethnic diversity.
I agree that income diversity should be a focus and not ethnic diversity (it just doesn't seem right when low income Chinese Americans - I know quite a few - can't get into a half decent school while rich Native American/Hispanic American/African American - I also know quite a few - can get in great schools with half the effort).

I couldn't agree with this more. I've seen too many privileged "real" minorities get opportunities that poor, self-made non-minorities couldn't even imagine.


Its very interesting to me when people make this argument....its as if they forget that there are so many WEALTHY Chinese Americans who take spots as well....why is the assumption that the rich Native American/Hispanic American/African American is taking the spot which should belong to the poor Chinese American....why is it not the wealthy Chinese American who is taking the spot of the poor Chinese American...

Its funny how people advocate that the poor self-made non-minorities should be getting the FEW opportunities which the minorities (the unfortunate thing here is that these few opportunities go the wealthy minorities mostly...and the poor minorities have a double challenge...their wealth and their race) get....how about we just forget abt minorities altogether...give their opportunities to the poor non-minorities who will enjoy with the rich non-minorities and all the great opportunities life has to offer will be for the non-minorities.....

hmmmn the sense of entitlement is very interesting....how abt arguing that poorer non-minorities should get opportunities which the RICHER non-minorities (lets not forget that this group, the RICHER non-minorities by far get majority of the opportunities available)....it is unfortunate that the few spots that minorities get go to the rich ones but the solution is not to take it away altogether....after all, there are many poor minorities to....

It seems my point wasn't clear before, so let me clarify:
The idea is that ethnicity should NOT play as much a role in diversity as income levels.

The reason I used the poor Chinese American vs rich Hispanic/Native/African American example is because (in my experience) it is one of the most common examples of reverse discrimination (that and poor Caucasian Americans). Not only that, but Chinese Americans are also a minority, but are not treated as such (Asian Americans in general are a minority).

I apologize if my example offended you, but I still stand by what I've said.
Of course, if you have evidence to the contrary, I'm more than happy to be convinced otherwise.

Minority or not, the rich still have way more opportunity than the poor, therefore using income levels is a better way to create equal opportunity than ethnicity. Hey I'd rather we have reverse discriminate against the rich, which is much more in line with the idea of equal opportunity, than to reverse discriminate against a certain ethnicity (be it Asian Americans or Caucasian Americans) that is only being used as a proxy for those with 'less opportunity'.

About your 'double challenge' for poor minorities - I don't quite get what challenges the other poor minorities have to get through that poor Asian Americans don't have to get through. (please don't forget, Asian Americans are also a minority, in fact, a much smaller minority than others population-wise). Feel free to enlighten me.
User avatar
TimeSquareDesi
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Last visit: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 375
Own Kudos:
Given Kudos: 148
Location: Times Square
Schools:Baruch / Zicklin
Posts: 375
Kudos: 39
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
The silver spoon this guy was fed with, apparently, wasn't up to his standard so he had to whine and cry about it with his keyboard...

Aside from that, this article actually makes me want to go to an Ivy league school even more :lol:

'Ivy retardation,' as he mentions, was probably due to his own negligence as opposed to the schools... but isn't it always easier (and convenient) to point your finger at someone else and blame them?

Pointing the finger at yourself should never be an option! :lol:

A+ on creativity, F- for validity.

raabenb
I went up to the McDonald's drivethru and I COULDNT THINK OF WHAT TO SAY!!!!!!!!!

LMAO! hahahahaha!

I went to Starbucks this morning and couldn't figure out what language to place my order in so I just left empty handed :: runs to the corner crying:: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
User avatar
jallenmorris
Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Last visit: 09 Oct 2014
Posts: 1,226
Own Kudos:
Given Kudos: 32
Location: Oklahoma City
Concentration: Life
Schools:Hard Knocks
Posts: 1,226
Kudos: 967
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
First, I hate the term "reverse discrimination". It is a stupid term. Discrimination is discrimination. By saying "reverse" it implies that the only type of discrimination that actually IS discrmination is that against a minority, but this goes against the very definition of "discrimination".

Definition of Discrimination

https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discrimination

2. treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.

Does this definition say anything about disparate treatment towards only 1 selecte group of people? No, it is simple "in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category..." Treating someone different because they are African American is discrimination. Treating someone differently because they are caucasian is discrimination. Discrimination is based on motivation to treat someone or something differently due to a classification. This is not limited to a specific classification.

**Stepping down off my soapbox**

I agree the better determination for preference would be socioeconomic status and that should truly be color-blind.

I believe one of the biggest problems is our public education system. Money for the schools is based on taxes paid according to property value, which creates an unending spiral for certain communities as the community begins to deteriorate and property values lower. This continues to lower the amount of money given to that school via property taxes. There has to be a better, more even-handed way to adminster public funds to the school system. When we finally have schools that receive equal local funding it will be a start. At least then a highschool education in one part of a city will be equal to that of another part of the city.

One last point: We need to raise expectations of our students at the same time as giving them the tools to meet those expectations. Higher standards will cause students to rise to the occasion, but at the same time, we must equip the students to meet those goals.

Hard questions and I hope we come up with answers soon.
User avatar
kidderek
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Last visit: 13 Jul 2019
Posts: 1,959
Own Kudos:
Posts: 1,959
Kudos: 371
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
You take the good, you take bad, you take them both, and there you have the facts of life.
User avatar
jallenmorris
Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Last visit: 09 Oct 2014
Posts: 1,226
Own Kudos:
Given Kudos: 32
Location: Oklahoma City
Concentration: Life
Schools:Hard Knocks
Posts: 1,226
Kudos: 967
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
You know the tune as well, or just the lyrics?
User avatar
kidderek
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Last visit: 13 Jul 2019
Posts: 1,959
Own Kudos:
Posts: 1,959
Kudos: 371
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
jallenmorris
You know the tune as well, or just the lyrics?

I can upload a sound clip of me singing it, but then everyone who hears me sing will want to do what you're doing in your avatar, j allen. hahaha
User avatar
jasonc
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Last visit: 09 Sep 2011
Posts: 199
Own Kudos:
Given Kudos: 3
Posts: 199
Kudos: 79
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
jallenmorris
First, I hate the term "reverse discrimination". It is a stupid term. Discrimination is discrimination. By saying "reverse" it implies that the only type of discrimination that actually IS discrmination is that against a minority, but this goes against the very definition of "discrimination".

Definition of Discrimination

https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discrimination

2. treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.

Does this definition say anything about disparate treatment towards only 1 selecte group of people? No, it is simple "in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category..." Treating someone different because they are African American is discrimination. Treating someone differently because they are caucasian is discrimination. Discrimination is based on motivation to treat someone or something differently due to a classification. This is not limited to a specific classification.

**Stepping down off my soapbox**

I agree the better determination for preference would be socioeconomic status and that should truly be color-blind.

I believe one of the biggest problems is our public education system. Money for the schools is based on taxes paid according to property value, which creates an unending spiral for certain communities as the community begins to deteriorate and property values lower. This continues to lower the amount of money given to that school via property taxes. There has to be a better, more even-handed way to adminster public funds to the school system. When we finally have schools that receive equal local funding it will be a start. At least then a highschool education in one part of a city will be equal to that of another part of the city.

One last point: We need to raise expectations of our students at the same time as giving them the tools to meet those expectations. Higher standards will cause students to rise to the occasion, but at the same time, we must equip the students to meet those goals.

Hard questions and I hope we come up with answers soon.

Jallen, I agree with the definition of discrimination and agree that I could have used 'discrimination' instead of 'reverse discrimination' - I used the term 'reverse discrimination' not because I believe discrimination is limited only to a specific classification but because I wanted to communicate the idea that in our attempt to not discriminate against those who have had less opportunities, our method of going about this is to discrimination based on race - and actually discriminates against some of those who have had less opportunities.

On a separate note: Have you guys seen the show? Or just know the song?
User avatar
kidderek
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Last visit: 13 Jul 2019
Posts: 1,959
Own Kudos:
Posts: 1,959
Kudos: 371
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
jasonc

On a separate note: Have you guys seen the show? Or just know the song?

sorry for the total thread hi-jacking, I should know better as an admin. however, was the song not specifically made for the show?

anyway I always preferred Blair to Jo. I know some of my friends like Jo the best. I know some of you guys liked Natalie!!! Raise your hands!!

:P sorry it's Friday, the brain is fried.
avatar
ghgirl
avatar
Current Student
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Last visit: 12 Oct 2008
Posts: 37
Own Kudos:
Posts: 37
Kudos: 2
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
It seems my point wasn't clear before, so let me clarify:
The idea is that ethnicity should NOT play as much a role in diversity as income levels.

The reason I used the poor Chinese American vs rich Hispanic/Native/African American example is because (in my experience) it is one of the most common examples of reverse discrimination (that and poor Caucasian Americans). Not only that, but Chinese Americans are also a minority, but are not treated as such (Asian Americans in general are a minority).

I apologize if my example offended you, but I still stand by what I've said.
Of course, if you have evidence to the contrary, I'm more than happy to be convinced otherwise.

Minority or not, the rich still have way more opportunity than the poor, therefore using income levels is a better way to create equal opportunity than ethnicity. Hey I'd rather we have reverse discriminate against the rich, which is much more in line with the idea of equal opportunity, than to reverse discriminate against a certain ethnicity (be it Asian Americans or Caucasian Americans) that is only being used as a proxy for those with 'less opportunity'.

About your 'double challenge' for poor minorities - I don't quite get what challenges the other poor minorities have to get through that poor Asian Americans don't have to get through. (please don't forget, Asian Americans are also a minority, in fact, a much smaller minority than others population-wise). Feel free to enlighten me.[/quote]


i agree that Asian Americans are a minority as well....i was answering both your post and the one after it which just used the terms minority and non-minority....and the challenges i was refering to was in comparison to a poor Caucasian American not an Asian American.

dont want to dwell on this too much but what i am trying to say is when people talk specifically abt a poor Asian American or a poor Caucasian American's lack of opportunity, they point to the specific minorities you mention (Native Americans, African Americans and Hispanics)...as if there are no rich Asian Americans and Caucasian with those opportunities. If it is really a socioeconomic issue that we should be talking abt opportunities which ALL rich people get....not just Native Americans, African Americans and Hispanics...which are not that many....just go to all top schools and count how many Native Americans, African Americans and Hispanics there are.....rich or poor
 1   2