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14 Apr 2008, 10:40
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gixxer, I'll address your questions from what I've learned thus far. Also, since it sounds like you are planning to apply next year, feel free and contact me while I continue through the MRE program at Cornell. I'll also try and bring what I learn to the board, since RE people are uncommon here.
As I perceive it, the Masters in Real Estate programs seem to be the best options outside of the very top MBA programs with a real estate emphasis. Schools such as Wharton, Columbia, Haas, and UCLA, that have strong real estate concentrations within a top tier MBA school would still be hard to top. In my opinion, other strong MBA programs with real estate concentrations - Kenan-Flagler, Wisconsin, etc. - may not get you as far as the real estate specific programs. Again, I want to emphasize, this is only my opinion from what I have learned through the search process.
My decision in fact came down to Kenan-Flagler or the Cornell Program in Real Estate, and I am choosing Cornell. I will be able to tell you in a couple of years if it was the right decision, but my conversations with students at both schools were very positive. As you mentioned and artshep mentioned, real estate is largely about your network. Cornell's PRE has the largest dedicated real estate alumni network, so that was a big difference maker to me. Given a choice between Wharton and Cornell's PRE, I would probably choose Wharton. But I think either program is strong, with a great network, and each has its own advantages. And, of course, as your application process evolves, you'll get an idea of what feels right.
Regarding mixing with MBA students and the various resources, at Cornell's PRE, we actually take a number of courses with the MBA students. However, I'm not sure if the same thing goes at USC, MIT, or Columbia. Talking with current students, I have heard there is increasing preference among employers in the real estate industry to hire MRE students rather than MBAs. One student put it this way - they like knowing that after you come to their interview regarding real estate development, you aren't going straight to a finance interview.
I think Cornell is recommending the dual degree "for students with less real estate work experience" because if you haven't worked in real estate, choose only the MRE, and then find out you hate real estate, you're going to be a little bit stuck. Having the MBA as a backup will allow you to more easily transition out of real estate if you really don't enjoy it. But if you know you enjoy real estate, the MRE is the way to go.
I have also talked with pretty much every student at Cornell who will take my phone calls over the past month or so. Universally, they've told me that all connections to the real estate industry come from the PRE, not the MBA. All the students have also mentioned that there are basically two reasons people like me would choose the dual-degree option (PRE/MBA): (1) Brand name, (2) Uncertainty about real estate as a career. To elaborate, real estate programs are relatively new. MBA programs are still more recognizable. And, if you get a real estate degree, you better be planning to work in real estate. An MRE won't get you into investment banking.
I'm less sure about this, because I've grown up around real estate and am currently working in the industry. Even with my experience, I still prefer the two years at Cornell over 1 year in the other programs. There are a few career switchers in the Cornell PRE and there are also quite a few who have worked in real estate before attending. I think that mostly has to do with the focus that those of us with prior experience have on wanting to stay in real estate. If you are a good candidate and communicate clearly to the admissions people in the MRE programs that real estate is something you are passionate about with good reasons, they will appreciate that. The nice part about the MRE programs being so small is that they really do choose candidate by candidate.
Here's a list from MITs website:
https://web.mit.edu/cre/careers/recentemployers.html
I know from my own research that I've seen at least a few MRE students from different schools working at the same place. Cornell PRE grad with MIT PRE grad, etc.
Here's an interesting link from the MIT real estate website that talks about the difference between MBAs and MREs. I found it very useful:
https://web.mit.edu/cre/apply/mba-msred.html
Hope this all helps!
gixxer1000
As I perceive it, the Masters in Real Estate programs seem to be the best options outside of the very top MBA programs with a real estate emphasis. Schools such as Wharton, Columbia, Haas, and UCLA, that have strong real estate concentrations within a top tier MBA school would still be hard to top. In my opinion, other strong MBA programs with real estate concentrations - Kenan-Flagler, Wisconsin, etc. - may not get you as far as the real estate specific programs. Again, I want to emphasize, this is only my opinion from what I have learned through the search process.
My decision in fact came down to Kenan-Flagler or the Cornell Program in Real Estate, and I am choosing Cornell. I will be able to tell you in a couple of years if it was the right decision, but my conversations with students at both schools were very positive. As you mentioned and artshep mentioned, real estate is largely about your network. Cornell's PRE has the largest dedicated real estate alumni network, so that was a big difference maker to me. Given a choice between Wharton and Cornell's PRE, I would probably choose Wharton. But I think either program is strong, with a great network, and each has its own advantages. And, of course, as your application process evolves, you'll get an idea of what feels right.
gixxer1000
Regarding mixing with MBA students and the various resources, at Cornell's PRE, we actually take a number of courses with the MBA students. However, I'm not sure if the same thing goes at USC, MIT, or Columbia. Talking with current students, I have heard there is increasing preference among employers in the real estate industry to hire MRE students rather than MBAs. One student put it this way - they like knowing that after you come to their interview regarding real estate development, you aren't going straight to a finance interview.
gixxer1000
I think Cornell is recommending the dual degree "for students with less real estate work experience" because if you haven't worked in real estate, choose only the MRE, and then find out you hate real estate, you're going to be a little bit stuck. Having the MBA as a backup will allow you to more easily transition out of real estate if you really don't enjoy it. But if you know you enjoy real estate, the MRE is the way to go.
I have also talked with pretty much every student at Cornell who will take my phone calls over the past month or so. Universally, they've told me that all connections to the real estate industry come from the PRE, not the MBA. All the students have also mentioned that there are basically two reasons people like me would choose the dual-degree option (PRE/MBA): (1) Brand name, (2) Uncertainty about real estate as a career. To elaborate, real estate programs are relatively new. MBA programs are still more recognizable. And, if you get a real estate degree, you better be planning to work in real estate. An MRE won't get you into investment banking.
gixxer1000
I'm less sure about this, because I've grown up around real estate and am currently working in the industry. Even with my experience, I still prefer the two years at Cornell over 1 year in the other programs. There are a few career switchers in the Cornell PRE and there are also quite a few who have worked in real estate before attending. I think that mostly has to do with the focus that those of us with prior experience have on wanting to stay in real estate. If you are a good candidate and communicate clearly to the admissions people in the MRE programs that real estate is something you are passionate about with good reasons, they will appreciate that. The nice part about the MRE programs being so small is that they really do choose candidate by candidate.
gixxer1000
Here's a list from MITs website:
https://web.mit.edu/cre/careers/recentemployers.html
I know from my own research that I've seen at least a few MRE students from different schools working at the same place. Cornell PRE grad with MIT PRE grad, etc.
Here's an interesting link from the MIT real estate website that talks about the difference between MBAs and MREs. I found it very useful:
https://web.mit.edu/cre/apply/mba-msred.html
Hope this all helps!
14 Apr 2008, 11:23
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Bookmarks
PaulK,
Thanks for the detailed response. I think were pretty much coming to the same conclusion. A top MBA program if you can get accepted but if your choosing between two similar programs the focused MRED will provide you more benefit if your sure you want to do real estate.
These are the things that frighten me from the MIT MRE vs MBA comparison.
Internship:
"Limited. However, there is the opportunity for participation in the MIT Alumni Association's externship program during the January Independent Activities Period. After the completion of the program, students move to full-time employment."
I'll be moving from another state without any present connections where I want to go. At least at Columbia and Cornell you seem more likely to get an internship.
Recruitment:
"Each year, approximately 5 to 10 companies interview on campus. However, most hiring in the real estate industry is done based on need. Therefore, the 12 to 20 informal opportunities for students to meet with company representatives and industry executives, position students well for meaningful access for self-initiated job searches. Investment banks do not tend to recruit at the Center."
This sounds like its ruling out options like working in the merchant banking divisions at GS on their real estate funds, etc.
I guess it seems your going to live and die by the network you create. Another thing was that only half of the 34 people reported thier employment. If you only have 34 people you would think it would be easy to get their salary information. Programs with 900 people are getting over 90% of their students to report. I don't know if I'm reading to far into this or what.
Thanks for the detailed response. I think were pretty much coming to the same conclusion. A top MBA program if you can get accepted but if your choosing between two similar programs the focused MRED will provide you more benefit if your sure you want to do real estate.
These are the things that frighten me from the MIT MRE vs MBA comparison.
Internship:
"Limited. However, there is the opportunity for participation in the MIT Alumni Association's externship program during the January Independent Activities Period. After the completion of the program, students move to full-time employment."
I'll be moving from another state without any present connections where I want to go. At least at Columbia and Cornell you seem more likely to get an internship.
Recruitment:
"Each year, approximately 5 to 10 companies interview on campus. However, most hiring in the real estate industry is done based on need. Therefore, the 12 to 20 informal opportunities for students to meet with company representatives and industry executives, position students well for meaningful access for self-initiated job searches. Investment banks do not tend to recruit at the Center."
This sounds like its ruling out options like working in the merchant banking divisions at GS on their real estate funds, etc.
I guess it seems your going to live and die by the network you create. Another thing was that only half of the 34 people reported thier employment. If you only have 34 people you would think it would be easy to get their salary information. Programs with 900 people are getting over 90% of their students to report. I don't know if I'm reading to far into this or what.
14 Apr 2008, 12:05
Kudos
Bookmarks
Artshep and I have exchanged messages in the past and he seems like a great guy. My guess is that he is just having an off day.
I treat every such incident as my personal failure to communicate the power of community. We have to believe that all of us working together benefits us all. Let the spirit of community prevail. I have found that the best way to communicate my point of view is to let it stand on its own. As soon as I become personal, people stop take me seriously. I may be right with my answer, but that does not give me license to become personal.
I need your help to help you.
I treat every such incident as my personal failure to communicate the power of community. We have to believe that all of us working together benefits us all. Let the spirit of community prevail. I have found that the best way to communicate my point of view is to let it stand on its own. As soon as I become personal, people stop take me seriously. I may be right with my answer, but that does not give me license to become personal.
I need your help to help you.
