Canadian 2012 Applications

Question

Hey all,

If you're planning to apply to these schools for Spring or Fall of 2012, let me know because I would love to discuss.

1) Ivey
2) Queen's
3) Rotman
4) Schulich
5) McGill
6) Haskayne

Also, what does everyone think of Sauder? I may add this to my list but don't know enough about it just yet,

Thanks

drmudit · Answer

Hi,
 I am planning to apply to following -
1 Schulich
2 Queen's
3 Ivey

I am not opting for Rottman because its a 2 year program and I want to go for a shorter course.

LeadandLearn · Answer

I wasn't going to apply for Rotman either because of the length and also due to the expense as I have heard it is pricier than many other schools. However, it continues to come up in searches as one of the best schools in Canada. Have you applied to your other choices yet?

drmudit · Answer

Not yet, will be doing so in coming months. So like me you prefer Canada over other popular destinations like US and UK. What are your reasons?

Rottman in terms of cost isnt that different. Schulich is 60-75k, queens is 75k, ivey 88k and Rottman is around 90k. But the cost increases if you add in opportunity cost of lost salary.

LeadandLearn · Answer

I chose Canadian universities because there are a handful that are internationally renowned. Like Queen's which has been in one of the top two seats for the past decade, according to Business Week. Also, I felt as though if I went to the States, I would probably get into a school that was equivalent to most Canadian schools. In other words, I doubt I would be able to land a spot in HBS, MIT, Princeton, Wharton, or any of the other top ones. How about you?

maxmoju · Answer

I am interested in Schulich and Queen's. 
Rotman and Ivey are way too expensive for my likes.

Wud luv 2 hear some reviews about these 2 schools. From whatever research i cud do , i believe Schulich is better than Queen's . Is this true?

Also from an international perspective, i know it's easier to get visas in Canada but how's the job market in Canada for internationals ?

Wud appreciate any insights ...

tml2004 · Answer

I am current first year student at Schulich. If you guys have any questions let me know.

maxmoju · Answer

Hi tml2004,

It's gr8 2 see sumone from the school come up to answer some of the queries...

I have couple of questions-

1. As i asked in my previous post, how do u see Canadian market from a jobs perspective for an international? I know it's a small market as compared to U.S. but how stable it is. Also from an international perspective do i need to know or take into account any thing extra while zeroing on my school choice.

2. I talked to one alum from Schulich and he was saying that more than 6 months after graduation still many ppl haven't been able to find a job. How true is that? Also in one of the Rotman sessions that i attended they were very particular of the fact that since Rotman is situated in downtown , it's a big help in finding jobs. How big a factor is location in Canda?

Thanks for your time.

tml2004 · Answer

1. Whether you are from here or international makes no difference in a job search. Most of the class at Schulich is international and I never heard anyone saying they had problems landing jobs because they are not from here. In the states, however, from what I understand there is difficulty obtaining work visas.
2. I dont know exact placement statistics. Finding the job here is really your responsability. I dont see how Rotman being in downtown helps their recruitment. Schulich has a centre in downtown as well, so does Ivey. There are many companies who come to recruit from Schulich, including big names like P&G, InBev, Credit Suisse, big 4 accounting firms, and all major Canadian banks. They come on campus, but its up to you to impress them. As far as Rotman vs Schulich... Ive talked to few of my classmates about it, and then I stoped asking because vast majority picked Schulich over Rotman because they felt that education at both institutions is top notch. However, Rotman charges extra $25K-$30K just for your diploma to say The University of Toronto on it. To many its just not worth it because Schulich has just as much, if not more, brand recognition. I do share that point of view myself.

maxmoju · Answer

Hey tks for the reply and shedding sum light on the doubts...It helped a lot I'll take the opportunity to ask couple of more questions

1. The Schulich website says deadline as 1st Feb but it doesn't say anything about when to start applying..i know it's a rolling based admission but by what time should we start applying and after applying how long does it take to get the decision?? 2. Also realistically speaking how many ppl actually get sum kind of scholarship? I know getting a schol depends on ur profile and stuff but just wanted to know what percentage of people actually got one 3. Lastly, i know that fees is $60k for full term. However York Univ website says as $20K/term. As far as i know each term is about 4 months and the course being ~22 months, how does it fit as 60k ? Sorry about bombarding u with queries

LeadandLearn · Answer

I've heard great things about Queen's. For one, it is ranked number 2 in the world by Business Week and before this was ranked number one for several years. In addition, it has full accreditation, small classes, and offers various perks such as an exercise program, personal coaching throughout the time spent there, and discounts for designations, should you wish to pursue a CFA, CMA, etc. The problem is that they do not take part in many rankings, other than Business Week so it is difficult to get a great perspective on how they fare in comparison to other schools.

ozzyk · Answer

This is just my opinion. I'm a patriotic flag waving, red and white canuck, but some things are what they are.

The Canadian job market is pretty damned xenophobic.. foreign experience is not credited the same way ‘Canadian experience’ is. Its unfortunate, but its true enough that I’ve seen it in my firm and with MBA grads around Toronto. Also keep in mind you’re not going to make the same money out of school that you would from a US institution. Especially at York, the class is hundreds strong and average exit salary is where I’m at before(!) starting my MBA program.

Anyway those are my reasons for not considering a Canadian school. Imagine sitting in a boardroom in Wall Street and getting asked, what the heck is Shulich? Bet that’ll never happen with Yale SOM, Ross, Fuqua, Darden, Kellogg, etc.

If you want to spend the rest of your career in Canada, sure do a Cdn MBA. Global, hell no stay away from Canada. I know at least a half dozen international students that regret their choice to come here.

tml2004 · Answer

maxmoju: sorry for delayed response.
1. Admission cycle is already open, apply as soon as you can. It took me a month and a half to get a response.
2. Dont know the percentage but a lot of people get scholarships here. Most of them are small but if you are an exceptional candidate you will get a big one dont worry.
3. Im a domestic student so I dont know what international fees are like. The whole year tuition for me was around $28000 so next year I expect the same.

I feel like I have to comment on ozzyk's remarks.
xenophobia that he/she is talking about exists everywhere. It is far more pronounced in the U.S. actually. 
Secondly, making a comment that U.S. B-schools are better is incorrect. Is Sykes MBA from University of Tampa is really better than Schulich? When you start listing Harvard's and Yale's; these are very few elite list of schools, among which there are international players as well such as INSEAD and LBS. Are you actually going to get a better education from there? In my opinion no, I have never been to those schools but I know that Schulich faculty is really impressive and the standard is really high. However, because selection process is so intense in those institutions, just making there, tells a lot about yorself. In other words, its more about status than education.

To make one quick pointer, yes they do know Schulich at the Wall Street and ill leave that at that. More than that, Bay street is full of Canadian MBA grads.
Also, ozzyk's interpertation of international seems to equal U.S.. In the U.S. they tend to discount everyone degree's because they like to protect their market. Globally however, in places like Eastern Europe and South America, Canadian education in general, is kept in a very high regard.

What no one seems to realize is that faculty of managment at York University is only 30 years old. In that time frame, they were able to build a program that is todays top 50 worldwide programs for sure. The school is still in development. However, there is Schulich culture and graduating from the school does mean something. The school has a clear idea what it is trying to achieve. I welcome anyone who reads this to take a look at my school. I think we have something special going on. If you believe in our mission, then this is definately a place for you. School employs many of its graduates in various roles, which speaks valumes of the trust the school has in its graduates.

ozzyk · Answer

First of all, my intention is not to sound stand offish - writing over the internet can do that. So let me add a HUGE disclaimer that all statements below are opinion and said in positive context - I only disagree respectfully.

Okay. So I'm talking top 20 US and European programs. If we're going to talk about the premier Canadian programs, lets compare them to their international equivalents not some backwater university in Tampa. I'm sorry but having travelled the world, worked in different places and as an immigrant myself, I'm convinced that the Canadian market is more xenophobic. In the US you will still get recruited by Mckinsey post MBA despite having an accent. Here recruiters from local firms will laugh you out the door for talking different and being a 'freshie' despite having gone to Rotman. I know an Indian Rotman grad with a 750+ GMAT that will throw himself over train tracks to stop another international student from making that same mistake he did. Just look at hiring by the premier consulting firms from Canadian MBA programs. I'm sorry but I would not pay almost six figures for my MBA to go work for Deloitte. I dont care what you say, but Canadian schools do not have the global profile to compete with the likes of INSEAD or the US top 20. Sure if you're making 40K right now, go to Shulich. But if you're in the 75k+ range, my advice is go somewhere where you have a chance to get recruited by a premier firm. Also the cost of education is not hugely different from Shulich to INSEAD, you dont just pay for the course work.. you also pay to be surrounded by people with brilliant profiles rather than fund accountants and risk analysts from bay street. I get it, you go to York and want to defend that school - but for me the ROI was incredibly poor for that school. I'm sure you have your opinion and I have mine - my recommendation to any international student is to think long and hard about what they want out of their MBA and then decide where to go. Make sure the ROI is worth it, make sure your choice matches your profile.

LeadandLearn · Answer

Presumably, many people in here have done research already on the US institutions and understand what top tiered schools, such as HBS, Wharton, Stanford, etc. have to offer. I agree that there are fabulous International universities such as INSEAD, LBS, IBS, etc. that offer similar opportunities to the top tiered US institutions but Canada fares well in comparison, according to many rankings (ex. Queen's being number 2 in Business Week). I will also have to agree that our schools are newer than many others in the world and currently working on building a reputation. Nevertheless, I know many successful MBA graduates from across Canada who are now making at least 6 digits and in some cases are clearing over $1M annually. It comes down to each person's goals after graduating and I'm not sure everyone is specifically looking for a banking job on Wall Street.

ozzyk · Answer

Well said, every story is different, my argument was in general terms.

Posted from my mobile device

maxmoju · Answer

@tml2004- Thanks for your reply.... I appreciate you taking your time off and answering our queries...

Regarding the rest of the debate, i won't go into specifics as i have not travelled to Canadian schools. As an international what attracts me towards Canada/Schulich are couple of things-

1. Relatively low tuition fees-- $60K compared with $250K with Harvard. Even if i get an admit from Harvard, there's no way on this earth that i can manage that kind of fees. Forget about stature, post MBA everything...can't just afford. Period.

2. Relaxed immigration rules- Unlike europe or to some extent US, Canada has relaxed immigration requirements..with 3 yrs post study work route as compared to 4 months in UK.

I definitely have my concerns though about Canada and hence my participation in this thread in the hope of clearing them-

1. Canadian market will be smaller than US market. No need to compare that. However from what post MBA grads may earn say take on average $70-80k, how does that stand relative to a Canadian standard of Living. I don wanna compare US post MBA salaries with Canadian...but am more interested in how does this salary stand in terms of living in Canada...

2. I heard from sum ppl that if you don't have a Canadian work ex , it'll be a problem in recruitment. In that context having an internship looks like a must which rules out 1 yr program like Queen's. Again how true is that..

Thanks all

tml2004 · Answer

1. 70-80 grand you will have a comfortable living. Its well above average income in Canada.
2. I completely agree with that. Its true for career switchers as well.

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