I honestly don't know what I want to do... I know what I don't want to do - I don't want to work in IB working 100 hours a week. Beyond that, I'm pretty open. As I start my research, I realize that a lof of different things sound very interesting - investment management for instance, corporate finance could be boring, but maybe not, maybe a general mgmt job with a strategic focus - I've seen some that looked mighty fun, there's something called real estate finance listed on the employment reports but who knows what that really means - just mortgages? Or working securitizing those mortgages? Working at a trading desk for a mortgage company managing risk? Who knows. The list goes on like this. The more I research, the more I realize I just dont know enough about the day to day life of people in these roles to really make any kind of informed intelligent decisions. What resources are you guys using to do your research?

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I don't know what I want to do.....

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bulishona

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gmatclb

So how is BM different from marketing?

Also, if your company is public and the stock price takes a hit, your department appears to be the easiest scapegoat. That is, your people appear to be "expendable."

Not saying you explicitly, but just generally trying to get a feel for this indsutry.

i would say BM is a subset marketing. my title is brand manager, but i'm in the marketing department. we also have trade marketers, who manage merchandising and displays in store and work with our retailers to maximize our face to the consumer at their stores. but as the brand manager, i am the gatekeeper, so to speak, for absolutely everything that goes on with my brand. it's my baby

some companies don't have brand management at all, or if they do it's at a very high level. credit card companies come to mind... take american express. they have a zillion types of marketers that manage different facets of the business, but the AMEX brand is singular. i can go into more detail on this if it's not clear...

i've never felt any sort of pressure in terms of layoffs, etc. yes, marketing is always the first to go, but in my experience that means mktg budgets are cut. not the people. unfortunately, within the mktg budget it's advertising that gets cut first and that means many ad agencies end up laying their people off.

actually layoffs at my company tend to affect the product designers before it affects the marketers. we are a marketing driven and marketing led company. we make all the business decisions (in conjunction with our finance team -- incidentally, you couldn't pay me enough to do their job. it's awful!). it's nice to have that sort of power...

eazyb81

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02 Mar 2007, 08:15

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gmatclb

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biggamejames

eazyb81

If the industry was so horrible, why would so many people be fighting each other for these BB jobs? Why is IB the #1 industry MBAs want to get into to?

Because IB is probably the only industry where you don't need a specific skillset and still earn $$$. The job is a commodity. Anyone can do it.

And "anyone" can't do MC or Corporate Finance? Just because it isn't highly specialized doesn't mean it is not a worthy career choice. Seems like an odd way to define an entire industry.

Quote:

There's a reason people who've done IB never go back and the ones who go into IB out of MBA never did IB.

I agree - the hours are grueling, not exactly the field established vets in their 40's and 50's would want to jump into. As has been said many times in this thread, IB is more of a stepping stone to perceivably bigger and better things.

MC and corp finance.. you're not making 300k/year.

There's no other industry out there where you can make 300k/year in your first year without any experience in that industry.

Where do you think all those MBAs straight out of undergrad go? IB is probably the only industry who will take them.

Hmmm....i've read this a few times and still don't understand what point you are attempting to make. You originally tried to knock IB by saying "anyone can do it", and I responded by saying "anyone" can do MC or CF, as an example. Your response to this is to say MC and CF don't pay as well as IB - what does that have to do with the original discussion? Are you trying to condemn IB because it pays much better than other industries? Odd argument.

Saying IB is the only industry that will take MBAs out of undergrad is kind of a silly statement.

The original statement was, "IB is the only industry where you can make 300K+/year."

Sure MC and CF you don't need any skill. Same thing with working at Taco Bell. But you aren't making 300K/year.

I'm not condeming IB because they pay much better than other industries. I'm saying that IB is (probably) the only industry where you can make that much without specialized skill (like a doctor or physicist).... therefore it is a commodity. Do banks have trouble hiring assocaiates?

Ah, I just realized you aren't the person I was originally discussing this with - it was biggamejames. My bad.

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02 Mar 2007, 10:52

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venky1979

I am only interested in $$$$$$
From the stats it looks like
1) MC
2) IB

From a money standpoint, there is no way MC is ahead of IB.

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02 Mar 2007, 10:56

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Yup... only PE!

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02 Mar 2007, 11:20

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Yup... only PE!

well good luck...very few people can make the cut ..as what one brings to the PE is more important than a HBS or Stanford MBA

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02 Mar 2007, 11:37

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Anyone know anything about PIMCO?

https://www2.pimco.com/MBA/

Their jobs, frankly, sound pretty damn interesting.

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02 Mar 2007, 13:31

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gmatclb

Okay, I am very interested in this conversation now. Let's "pretend" that I have no skills. (because I don't actually have any finance skills) I don't necessarily need 300K/year but something respectable. So you guys are confirming that IB is a good option for me, assuming that I'm willing to trade my social life/family life/hobbies for a big chunk of money. And IM, equities research are alternatives that pay a little less but more reasonable hours.

Anything else I should consider? (lets call these the "fresh start" options, for career changers with no previous exp)

philkriger

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02 Mar 2007, 13:50

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Anyone know anything about PIMCO?

https://www2.pimco.com/MBA/

Their jobs, frankly, sound pretty **** interesting.

I believe PIMCO is a 100% fixed income, probaly a great place to work if you're interested in credit and debt, but not equities.

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I don't think the big firms are the best places to work for IM.

Best place would be a middle player. Good upside but established. Capital under management ~50 billion would be good.

Unlike the IBs and MCs who get the best deals and biggest clients, IM is the same no matter how much money you manage. (assuming the firm is not small)

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gmatclb

Not really, usually at least a portion of your bonus is tied to AUM and/or yearly profits. Also, pay is much better with the large IM firms than with small/regional firms.

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02 Mar 2007, 16:10

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fluffydot

I believe that IB and MC are generally considered friendly towards career changers. Reading between the lines, I believe this means "no experience necessary". While that's probably not entirely true, I expect you can learn what you need to know during business school and internship.

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pelihu

Well, for MC you may not be experienced in MC itself, but you will bring to the table your experience with some industry(ies) or disciplines.

L.

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PIMCO is a great place to work, especially the headquarters being in Newport Beach,the best place of the country to live in. I have a friend who works there, got a job right out of Princeton undergrad. My brother who has a Wharton undergrad degree, works as an equity analyst at a boutique firm. For him, a CFA is more important than a MBA since he is already in the industry. At 24 years of age, he makes over $100K. Almost all his colleagues are MBAs from top schools (M7 mostly) who leveraged their degree to change career path. Not having a MBA will not impede his career since it is almost exclusively performance driven.
Being an equity analyst provides you with skills that are needed everywhere, buyside, PE, hedge fund, portfolio management.

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So if I have a way to pretty much lock in an internship at PIMCO, it wouldnt be a bad idea?

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Take it and you can see if fixed income securities is something you want to get involved in. PIMCO is really the undisputed king of bond funds.

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A UCLA Anderson guy started PIMCO.

cbreeze

Take it and you can see if fixed income securities is something you want to get involved in. PIMCO is really the undisputed king of bond funds.

lepium

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rhyme

So if I have a way to pretty much lock in an internship at PIMCO, it wouldnt be a bad idea?

NO NO NO NO! I don't know PIMCO, but why choose jobs b/4 B-school? I'm sure going through the process and talking to others abour recruiting 24x7 will help you really understand what you want to do. And you would not want to be locked, then (neither would you want to jeopardize the opportunity of a job you might like, either).

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lepium

rhyme

So if I have a way to pretty much lock in an internship at PIMCO, it wouldnt be a bad idea?

I'm not suggesting locking it in now, im just saying, if I can lock it in and put it in my back pocket - that is "Hey, it me, yea, i need that internship" - its worth doing.

lepium

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02 Mar 2007, 19:23

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rhyme

lepium

rhyme

So if I have a way to pretty much lock in an internship at PIMCO, it wouldnt be a bad idea?

I'm not suggesting locking it in now, im just saying, if I can lock it in and put it in my back pocket - that is "Hey, it me, yea, i need that internship" - its worth doing.

Then go ahead. If there's no cost for you I would even lock a job at McDonald's.

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While I don't yet know what I want to do (I have no interest in and am too old for IB), I know what I don't want to do. And that is more of the same thing I'm doing now :D

I will be looking at industry. Making 300K isn't the top of my priority.