So as Round 1 comes to a close I'm finding myself frustrated. I was admitted to Chicago (a great fit for me personally) and dinged at Stanford/Wharton. The problem is my wife is refusing to leave her job to move out to Chicago, which she equates to committing "career suicide". S/W would have worked well for her because at S we could have just stayed here in the Silicon Valley, and at W she could've transferred within her company to Philly. She works for a major defense company and they have agreed to pay for her to do a PT MBA, which is an amazing opportunity. My problem with the whole situation is that we both want kids, and she seems to agree that she would need to stay home to raise them. So I'm having trouble rationalizing why I should slam the brakes on this opportunity at Chicago if in the next three or four years we're likely to be starting a family and her career will be taking a break anyway. So what am I supposed to do? Move out to Chicago and try to do a long distance marriage for 2 yrs? Or do I abandon the opportunity altogether even though it is something I've wanted and worked towards for a long time? In any case, it sucks that after getting accepted at one of the best business schools in the world my wife's first reaction was "that sucks. i'm not moving there." It also didn't help that she blames me for getting dinged at S/W, as if I somehow didn't "try hard enough." Anyone else out there facing a similar situation?

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A totally non-PC question for married/committed couples

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jankynoname

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22 Dec 2009, 01:37

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Wow! Thanks for all the responses. I can see it's an issue that a lot of us are/have faced, and i think you guys are right... it's not going to be easy no matter what the outcome. My wife and I have been talking a lot about it, and I'm starting to think that the LDR thing might be a viable option. We're obviously really going to have to trust one another, but I figure I'll be so busy with b-school (suffering from FOMO and such) that she won't have much of my attention anyway. She's also terrified of the prospect of living in the cold (we're both Cali all our lives) so I think she would be pretty miserable out there.

In any case, it looks like I will be doing some 2nd round apps to try to get into somewhere closer to where she could potentially work. It wouldn't be the same city, but maybe within a couple hundred miles, which would allow for more frequent weekend visits. I'm a little reluctant to try for Haas since I don't think they're as strong as Chicago for what I want to do. But who knows, I'm certainly still mulling it over.

It's weird tho... some of our less ambitious friends are like "why would you ever consider moving away from your wife for school?" Others are firmly against me trying to uproot my wife and think I should do what I need to do and let her continue to pursue her career. Everyone's sensitivity to this is a little different. Anyways, you guys have all been super helpful with this. The military couples in particular, I hadn't even considered that - but it's a great example of how it can work under some pretty stressful and isolated conditions. Thanks.

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Speaking of non-PC .... if you haven't heard this variation yet, you will.. MBA = Married But Available. The other common one, also not so PC is "Making Babies In America'....

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rhyme

Speaking of non-PC .... if you haven't heard this variation yet, you will.. MBA = Married But Available. The other common one, also not so PC is "Making Babies In America'....

Yikes! First time I've heard this, but interesting - and somewhat disturbing - nonetheless.

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22 Dec 2009, 10:48

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I say Haas!

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22 Dec 2009, 18:43

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To throw my two cents in as someone going through exactly the same conversations.

I think in my case there are three distinct issues:

1. Where do you intend on working post MBA?
2. Where does your wife intend on working post your MBA?
3. Who has more flexibility in general?

Since I got admitted to INSEAD, my wife and I have thrashed out that it makes most sense for her to stay put in Toronto. I suggest that other couples really talk this through as best as possible. One thing to keep in mind though is that the window of opportunities are limited on these things - so if at all possible once must act on them.

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Did you and your wife discuss where you were going to apply BEFORE you applied?? Three times moving is a lot....I just actually moved to Chicago with my husband so that he could go to Booth, and I agreed, and it is still stressful. I've moved a bunch of times for him, as well, though, so I know the feeling (to Australia once, around Boston a bunch). Have you come to any decisions? It is a great city...but it's hard to start over....

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Thanks Edark,

Sounds like you're going through exactly the same process (just a year ahead). What has been the hardest part about moving to Chicago for you? finding a job? leaving behind friends/family? I'm hoping that I can mitigate the friends issue by promising her flights back to CA to visit, but then again on student loans that may be somewhat limited. It really comes down to the job issue for her.

We did discuss this before I applied. In fact, she came out to Chicago with me to visit in August and seemed to really like the city. That said, she never committed to agree to come with me, just that she supported whatever I wanted to do (whatever that means). She had really been hoping for either Wharton or Stanford though since that would have made things easy with her job.

I'm not sure where we are right now to be honest. I got a call from a first year at Booth after I got in and he and his wife were doing the long-distance thing (she lived in CA too) successfully. He said you can tailor your class schedule so you only take classes 3-4 days per week, which would allow me to fly out for long weekends periodically. That gave us some hope. Anyways, I've applied for one last school in R2 to try to give us another option. Some days my wife seems open to the idea of moving, some days not.

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Hi, Jankynoname –

We moved from the other coast (Boston), and it’s been a tougher transition than I thought it was going to be, actually. The city is great, but it’s been hard for me to be away from my family and the city that I’ve lived in for 5 years. Chicago is a lot bigger, and I miss the smaller town feel of Boston . I had a pretty tough time finding a job, but I got on the search pretty early (I applied for jobs in July and started working at the end of September). I was lucky, though; many of the other partners don’t have jobs yet or JUST got jobs. The toughest thing has really been having a full-time job while my husband is a student! Both financially and just as a mind-set thing, it’s been tough.

We had hoped for Wharton, too…I’m not a huge fan of Philly, but it would have been closer to “home.” That didn’t pan out for us, either, though.

So, we do know of at least one guy who flies home to Boston for 4 day weekends almost every week. It definitely is a possibility, but I caution against using that as a safety net. For one thing, at least with this friend, I feel as though he is picking classes solely based on schedule and NOT based on what classes he wants to take. You’re spending a fortune and putting your life on hold to come here – make the most of it!! Especially as a first year, it’s hard to get the classes you want during the times you want (last term, my husband had to take 2 classes on Friday – one at 8:30am and one at 1:30pm – NOT ideal). Do you know about the bidding/point system here? It makes getting your schedule every term very stressful and you very often don’t get the classes/times you want. Plus, at least the first couple of terms, there are all of these events that you have to go to on the weekends….this business school thing is a full-time commitment.

I knew I was going to move with him wherever he went (he only applied to places we discussed: Harvard, Wharton, Booth), and it was still hard. I’m feeling much more settled now, but it’s tough! The other wives/girlfriends have been a lifesaver, though. We see each other often and are very supportive of one another.

Check out my blog (listed in my profile). I just started it, but it’s basically about being a wife/partner at business school/Booth/Chicago.

Good luck, and feel free to ask anything else!!

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Just wanted to throw it in there that it gets even harder when the wife wants to go to b-school, and thus the husband has to follow her / agree to a LDR.

The whole man mentality things is still strong unfortunately, which makes it really hard if you are a married woman.

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I totally agree, fishoil. I've only met a handful of people in that situation, but I think it's harder for both the man and woman. Inevitably, when you go out, everyone assumes that the man is the student...it is very awkward for everyone. I'm also in the Partner's Group here, and none of the male partners ever go to anything. Not that I blame them at all, but that just means they have even less support.

And being the woman in school...I think (only from observing) that it's gotten a bit easier, but you're still outnumbered 10:1, which is always tough. It's easier to get in, though!

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edark, exactly right.

it is very hard for both men and women in committed relationships.

unfortunately, i know several couple (the woman was the student) where this has taken a toll on the relationship. the men all felt that the woman should be much more willing to compromise b-school quality for family life, and the general consensus (among society and friends) was on his side. men somehow did not feel manly enough and felt the woman focused less on nurturing their relationship than she should have by virtue of being a woman.

when the woman did go to school, the relationship deteriorated. in other cases, she had to compromise to a lower-ranked school so that she did not lose her husband.

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fishoil

ugh, i know that this happens, but it really sucks, you know? people should be over this by now.

it's hard enough having one half of a couple in school; why do people have to make it even MORE difficult? the one couple in this situation we know fairly well is coping okay, i think. he's an engineer and has just thrown himself into his new job here. it's tough, though; the students get SO much attention and are so busy that it's easy for anyone to feel "left out." i suppose it might be harder for a man to deal with being "ignored" by his wife than vice versa?

(sort of kidding - ha)

if you're going to go to b-school, you have to GO to b-school. you can't half-a** it. what's the point? you're here to learn and make connections; your life, married or otherwise, just isn't going to be exactly the same as it was before.

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[quote="edark"]Hi, Jankynoname –

We moved from the other coast (Boston), and it’s been a tougher transition than I thought it was going to be, actually. The city is great, but it’s been hard for me to be away from my family and the city that I’ve lived in for 5 years. Chicago is a lot bigger, and I miss the smaller town feel of Boston . I had a pretty tough time finding a job, but I got on the search pretty early (I applied for jobs in July and started working at the end of September). I was lucky, though; many of the other partners don’t have jobs yet or JUST got jobs. The toughest thing has really been having a full-time job while my husband is a student! Both financially and just as a mind-set thing, it’s been tough.

We had hoped for Wharton, too…I’m not a huge fan of Philly, but it would have been closer to “home.” That didn’t pan out for us, either, though.

So, we do know of at least one guy who flies home to Boston for 4 day weekends almost every week. It definitely is a possibility, but I caution against using that as a safety net. For one thing, at least with this friend, I feel as though he is picking classes solely based on schedule and NOT based on what classes he wants to take. You’re spending a fortune and putting your life on hold to come here – make the most of it!! Especially as a first year, it’s hard to get the classes you want during the times you want (last term, my husband had to take 2 classes on Friday – one at 8:30am and one at 1:30pm – NOT ideal). Do you know about the bidding/point system here? It makes getting your schedule every term very stressful and you very often don’t get the classes/times you want. Plus, at least the first couple of terms, there are all of these events that you have to go to on the weekends….this business school thing is a full-time commitment.

I knew I was going to move with him wherever he went (he only applied to places we discussed: Harvard, Wharton, Booth), and it was still hard. I’m feeling much more settled now, but it’s tough! The other wives/girlfriends have been a lifesaver, though. We see each other often and are very supportive of one another.

Check out my blog (listed in my profile). I just started it, but it’s basically about being a wife/partner at business school/Booth/Chicago.

Good luck, and feel free to ask anything else!![/quote]

Thanks. I was wondering if you wrote that blog. I actually stumbled on it a couple days ago and sent it to my wife. Keep it up - I def think it's an important topic. I completely agree with you on the class bidding thing. I would hate to have to settle for classes i'm not as interested in just to accommodate the logistics of flying back and forth. But then again, that's all part of the compromise I guess... seems like small potatoes relative to the importance of actually seeing my wife.

So, how much time do you have with your husband on a typical day? I'm guessing he's pretty busy with clubs/recruiting at Booth. Depending on what jobs you all had pre-MBA maybe it's not that different, but I am wondering realistically how much time can I expect to even have with my wife if she moves out there?

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15 Jan 2010, 14:22

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jankynoname

Thanks. I was wondering if you wrote that blog. I actually stumbled on it a couple days ago and sent it to my wife. Keep it up - I def think it's an important topic. I completely agree with you on the class bidding thing. I would hate to have to settle for classes i'm not as interested in just to accommodate the logistics of flying back and forth. But then again, that's all part of the compromise I guess... seems like small potatoes relative to the importance of actually seeing my wife.

So, how much time do you have with your husband on a typical day? I'm guessing he's pretty busy with clubs/recruiting at Booth. Depending on what jobs you all had pre-MBA maybe it's not that different, but I am wondering realistically how much time can I expect to even have with my wife if she moves out there?

Yes, it's definitely all a compromise....it's going to be a compromise whether she moves with you or not! Trust me, my husband has not done many things the other students all do because of me. It's a different ball game when you're married, and it's up to both of you to get as much out of it as you can while still having an actual relationship! We're still working on it

.

Well, my commute is about an hour, so I'm gone 8-6. The end of first term and the beginning of second is definitely heavy on recruiting, so he's been gone a fair amount. I would say, though, on average, we see each other most nights (6-11 or whenever we go to bed) and a lot during the weekend. Recruiting is maybe once or twice a week, either 6-8:30 or 4:30-6, so it doesn't always affect us. We opted to live close to school instead of downtown, so he does a lot of his studying at home and it's quick for him to run over to a recruiting event and get back to see us (me and the puppy). So far, I would say we see each other more than I thought we would, which is great. He doesn't do ALL of the social stuff that all of the single students do, but we've become friends with a lot of the other couples at school so that we can all hang out. All in all, you would definitely see her more if she were here than if she were in Cali....I would worry more that YOU were going to miss out on a lot if you were trying to commute a lot of weekends a month. It's busy and stressful enough! I am all about compromise, but it has to work for both of you, you know?

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15 Jan 2010, 14:58

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I honestly do not think this is the appropriate place to seek advice on your marriage. While people may have similar situations at the end of the day this will only be resolved with your family. You need to figure out what your priorities are, is it family or business school, but your answer is not going to come from an online forum.

This is not meant to be a sarcastic response, but I really think you should not be asking advice from a bunch of people you do not know for a decision of this type of magnitude.

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[quote="24"]I honestly do not think this is the appropriate place to seek advice on your marriage. While people may have similar situations at the end of the day this will only be resolved with your family. You need to figure out what your priorities are, is it family or business school, but your answer is not going to come from an online forum.

This is not meant to be a sarcastic response, but I really think you should not be asking advice from a bunch of people you do not know for a decision of this type of magnitude.[/quote]

Yeah. I mean clearly... just trying to get as many different insights as I can and consider everything. I have lots of non-virtual friends in similar situations, but they tend to be in med-school or law school. I think b-school is its own animal with a separate set of considerations for couples. This forum is full of ppl who are either in, or going to be in the same situation very soon, so it's a pretty rich resource. But yeah, you won't be seeing a "poll" on the fate of my marriage anytime soon.

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edark - yeah, hopefully things will keep changing for the better.

jankynoname - best of luck with your decisions.

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I agree that this isn't a place to seek marriage advice, but when you are making a decision of this magnitude, it helps to hear from people who are experiencing your possibilities right now. I'm just letting you all know what ONE couple's experience at Booth has been so far. Whatever you decide, it's important to have as much info as possible

.

Good luck with your decision; I'm sure you'll come up with something that's best for both of you!

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16 Jan 2010, 11:45

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Sometimes, the perception of your situation can be as much of a contributing factor to your happiness as your reaction to the actual situation itself. We're social animals by nature and we tend to want to not feel like we're alone in our decisions or choices. Often, a difficult choice can be made easier knowing that others are making the same sacrifices. On the flip side, we can easily be induced to make a poor decision because of peer pressure. So I'll admit it works both ways.

I think it's a good thing that he's seeking the opinions of others who may have been in this same situation. We asked the advice of a bunch of people we don't know to decide which business schools to apply or go to. In fact, I think I've asked the opinion of a bunch of people I don't know for every major decision I've made. Asking people you don't know can have some advantages. Namely, they have no vested interest in your particular situation i.e. preserving your marriage or maximizing your future earnings potential.

Having said that, however, I think it's a good thing you expressed your concern because he might be feeling the same way about his own post so it could be beneficial to see it out there. Plus it's a legitimate opinion regardless.

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Quote:

Do you know about the bidding/point system here? It makes getting your schedule every term very stressful and you very often don’t get the classes/times you want.

Just to give another perspective, this wasn't my experience at all. I got every single class I ever bid on and precisely the series of courses I wanted. That said, it IS stressful.

To be fair however, I spent a RIDICULOUS amount of time building an excel model to identify the best strategies, downloaded all bid data, learned how to arb the system (which you can no longer do sadly), looked at prior years, etc. It was my experience that those people who waited to the last minute or just sort of guessed what to bid without doing much research are the ones who found themselves frustrated. I'm not saying that's what your husband did (things may have changed), but if he hasn't tried really really sitting down with the data and looking at trends, considering variables etc, he should, because it can absolutely pay off. For instance, a huge driver that people always ignore is the total number of sections being taught by a given professor. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people put in ridiculously high bids because "last year" the class was expensive, ignoring that last year the class was taught one times instead of three, and friday morning instead of say afternoons. People also ignore who ELSE was teaching when the 'high' bids came in in prior years -- for instance, if you had both Meadow and Kaplan teaching in the same quarter, thats going to give a very different end result than if only one is teaching (and the other is some no name prof). The other thing to look at is what other classes people are likely to want to combine with your top choice courses in that given quarter -- for instance, if you see that there's an accounting class in the morning and the afternoon on Tuesdays, and an investment class only on Tuesday afternoon, odds are, the accounting morning class will go for more than the afternoon course (which you wouldn't otherwise generally expect).

Another strategy people sometimes employ is bidding all their points every quarter just to make sure they get the schedule they want, and then if it ends up being too expensive, they drop the class and get their points back. That leads to oddball cases where crap courses that no one wants (operations) go for ridiculous amounts of points in the first round of bidding (say 10,000 points which would make it one of the top 5 or so most expensive classes in all of booth) only to then be dropped en-masse in the second round (everyone balks at paying 10K for a mediocre course) and suddenly in R2 the very same class goes for 2000 points. When you see an inexplicably 'stupid' price in R1 (no name professor, no name class), if its a class you wanted, go after it in R2. (I got everything I ever bid on in round 1, but saw lots of good 'opportunities' for round 2 bidding).

Also, if he wants my model, I have it somewhere. It hasn't been updated in years and it probably needs a good 50 hours of work to get it up to speed, but he's welcome to it. In any case, tell him not to despair -- the system can be beat.

Also, married when I started the program, + 1 kid while I was halfway through the program, so I've been through it. If you ever want to chat I'm happy to.