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United States Senator Daniel Inouye was appointed to several posts

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Re: United States Senator Daniel Inouye was appointed to several posts  [#permalink]

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New post 07 Dec 2017, 08:14
mikemcgarry wrote:
Skywalker18 wrote:
United States Senator Daniel Inouye was appointed to several posts within the Democratic party during his first term, that included assistant majority whip and vice-chair of the Democratic Senatorial Committee.

A. that included - usage of comma + that is incorrect
B. which includes - which refers to first term
C. including - Correct
D. some of which were - the "which" is trying to refer to "several posts", which is way too far away from the comma to be acceptable
E. among them being - usage of being

Answer C
Comma + including modifies the preceding noun and thus does not actually work like a verb+ ing . But isn't posts too far away for comma+including to work this way?

Dear Skywalker18,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

The short answer is "no," it's not too far.

Here, it's important to appreciate the different between vital vs. non-vital modifiers. See
GMAT Grammar: Vital Noun Modifiers

The word "posts" is generic and nondescript. It needs clarification. Both prepositional phrases are necessary to describe it. This is the entire phrase
" . . . posts within the Democratic party during his first term . . . "
This phrase functions as a single logical unit, and this single logical unit is "touching" the modifier "including" that targets it.

The distance that matters is not a word count. The distance that matter is one of logic & meaning, and in this context, there's really no distance at all between target and modifier.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)


Hi Mike,
I want to know what is wrong with option D. some of which were...........here we have verb were (plural), so which correctly modifies posts and not his first term. Please help.
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Re: United States Senator Daniel Inouye was appointed to several posts  [#permalink]

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New post 07 Dec 2017, 11:34
sunny91 wrote:
Hi Mike,
I want to know what is wrong with option D. some of which were...........here we have verb were (plural), so which correctly modifies posts and not his first term. Please help.

Dear sunny91,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

My friend, I will begin by telling you something shocking. The GMAT SC is NOT a test of grammar. The GMAT SC is a test of the quality of writing, and the quality of writing depends on (1) grammar, (2) logic, and (3) rhetoric; in a well-written sentence, such as a correct answer on the SC, all three of these strands cooperate to support a single clear meaning. The folks who write the GMAT SC questions are concerned with all aspects of the quality of writing.

One direct consequence of these facts is that the GMAT SC often has incorrect answers that are 100% grammatically correct. This is particularly befuddling to non-native students who are focused exclusively on grammar: such answers function as traps for these students. You see, a version of a sentence might be 100% grammatically correct, but illogical or awkward or wordy or etc. etc. There are dozens of ways in which a sentence can fall short of the standards of high quality writing.

In this SC question about the late Sen. Daniel Inouye (a very good man!), choice (D) is precisely such an answer. Choice (D) is 100% correct grammatically, absolutely no grammar flaw at all, and yet, it's not the right answer. Why? consider (C) and (D) side by side:

(C) . . . during his first term, including assistant majority whip . . .

(D) . . . during his first term, some of which were assistant majority whip . . .

Notice that, compared to version (C), version (D) uses one more syllable, 66% more letters, and 300% more words! Whether we are speaking or writing the sentence, it takes more effort & more space to use (D) than (C). The paradox is that if (C) didn't exist, (D) could be a perfectly fine right answer, but compared to (C), (D) looks clunky, swollen, and rambling. This is a subtle point: the GMAT SC is not just about black vs. white, absolutely right vs. absolutely wrong, the way math always is; instead, it is quite explicitly about the "best answer," and this focus means that one choice could be very good but still be beaten out by something better!

It's often hard to give clear simple rules for rhetoric, but one clear rule that the GMAT consistently follows is as follows: if you can say exactly the same thing correctly with more words or fewer, it's always better to say it with fewer. This is one of the many conditions in which a 100% grammatically correct answer would not be the OA.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: United States Senator Daniel Inouye was appointed to several posts  [#permalink]

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New post 22 Jan 2019, 16:36
United States Senator Daniel Inouye was appointed to several posts within the Democratic party during his first term, that included assistant majority whip and vice-chair of the Democratic Senatorial Committee.

(A) that included
(B) which includes
(C) including
(D) some of which were
(E) among them being


E. among them being

Please critique!

A. that is relative pronoun that never follows comma. That indicates that information will always be essential to the sentence and should never be sectioned off by commas.
B. Which is a relative pronoun that serves to modify the noun that proceeds it. In this instance, which modifies term and alters the meaning of sentence.
E. Improperly use the preposition among

Between C&D, C cuts down on unecessary wordiness and uses the correct construction: IC + "," + Participle Phrase

Best,

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United States Senator Daniel Inouye was appointed to several posts  [#permalink]

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New post Updated on: 09 Aug 2019, 09:52
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mikeCoolBoy wrote:
United States Senator Daniel Inouye was appointed to several posts within the Democratic party during his first term, that included assistant majority whip and vice-chair of the Democratic Senatorial Committee.

(A) that included
(B) which includes
(C) including
(D) some of which were
(E) among them being

look at choice C and D.

both including and which can jump over some words to modify a far noun.
why D is wrong
some of which were is wrong because
"some" means several. "some of which were A and B" is not logic. we can not say thay several persons are Mr. A and Mr. B. instead, we have to say that "two of which are Mr. A and Mr B"

if "some" is several things, it is not logic. we can not say "some of which is A and B"

choice D can be correct if it is

two of which were A and B.

look at choice E
being is redundant. choice E can be correct if it is
among them whip and vice chair.

Originally posted by thangvietnam on 07 Mar 2019, 10:30.
Last edited by GMATNinjaTwo on 09 Aug 2019, 09:52, edited 1 time in total.
fixed quote format
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Re: United States Senator Daniel Inouye was appointed to several posts  [#permalink]

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New post 20 Mar 2019, 05:00
Experts, please help me understand this:
Q)United States Senator Daniel Inouye was appointed to several posts within the Democratic party during his first
term, including assistant majority whip and vice-chair of the Democratic Senatorial Committee.


According to my understanding, "Including" modifies the preceding closest noun, right?
So in this question doesn't "including" modify "term"?
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Re: United States Senator Daniel Inouye was appointed to several posts  [#permalink]

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New post 20 Mar 2019, 05:59
1
Hi Aniket, the word including is quite flexible in terms of what it can modify: either the word preceding it or the phrase preceding it, whichever makes sense.

p.s. Our book EducationAisle Sentence Correction Nirvana discusses the application of “including”. Have attached the corresponding section of the book, for your reference.
Attachments

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Re: United States Senator Daniel Inouye was appointed to several posts  [#permalink]

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New post 20 Mar 2019, 06:53
My take on this one

A. that included - illogical and "that" after a comma is usually wrong unless there is an implied and unstated subject, which is not the case here
B. which includes - modifying "touch rule" makes this one wrong
C. including - 'including' is modifying the whole clause before --> logical, succinct
D. some of which were - POE eliminates this for wordyness
E. among them being - 'being' takes an illogical turn
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Re: United States Senator Daniel Inouye was appointed to several posts  [#permalink]

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New post 22 Mar 2019, 05:13
the point here is that
including can jump over the adverb (during..." ) while which clause can not jump over the adverb . which clause can only jump over the noun modifier.

so, including can "jump" further than which clause.
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Re: United States Senator Daniel Inouye was appointed to several posts  [#permalink]

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New post 09 Aug 2019, 04:17
I am still not sure why I should choose C over D.
Is there any grammatical error with D?
Is conciseness the only reason that makes C better than D?
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Re: United States Senator Daniel Inouye was appointed to several posts  [#permalink]

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New post 09 Aug 2019, 06:15
OzCat4 wrote:
I am still not sure why I should choose C over D.
Is there any grammatical error with D?
Is conciseness the only reason that makes C better than D?


1 consiceness 2 modification "which" is way too away from "several post"
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Re: United States Senator Daniel Inouye was appointed to several posts  [#permalink]

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New post 11 Aug 2019, 13:48
1
OzCat4 wrote:
I am still not sure why I should choose C over D.
Is there any grammatical error with D?
Is conciseness the only reason that makes C better than D?

Have you checked out this post by thangvietnam?

Consider the following examples:

  • "I saw several movies last year, some of which were long and boring." - I saw several movies (say, 20 movies) last year. Some subset of those movies (say, 5 movies) were long and boring. The words "long" and "boring" describe the 5 movies.
  • "I saw several movies last year, some of which were Bohemian Rhapsody and Deadpool 2." - We can have multiple movies that were "long and boring", but we can't have multiple movies that were Bohemian Rhapsody and Deadpool 2.
  • "I saw several movies last year, including Bohemian Rhapsody and Deadpool 2." - This makes much more sense. Bohemian Rhapsody and Deadpool 2 are just two of the movies that I saw last year. So the movies that I saw last year included Bohemian Rhapsody and Deadpool 2.

Now look at choice (D):

Quote:
(D) United States Senator Daniel Inouye was appointed to several posts within the Democratic party during his first term, some of which were assistant majority whip and vice-chair of the Democratic Senatorial Committee.

Does that mean that there were multiple posts that qualified as both assistant majority whip and vice-chair of the Democratic Senatorial Committee?? (D) has the same problem as the second example above.

Compare that to choice (C):

Quote:
(C) United States Senator Daniel Inouye was appointed to several posts within the Democratic party during his first term, including assistant majority whip and vice-chair of the Democratic Senatorial Committee.

The meaning is much clearer here. Inouye was appointed to several posts. Assistant majority whip and vice-chair of the Democratic Senatorial Committee are just two of those posts. The several posts to which he was appointed included 1) assistant majority whip and 2) vice-chair of the Democratic Senatorial Committee.

Yes, choice (C) is more concise than (D). But, more importantly, the meaning is clearer in (C).

I hope this helps!
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Re: United States Senator Daniel Inouye was appointed to several posts  [#permalink]

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New post 11 Aug 2019, 15:09
C is the right answer,
Including is used as a modifier in this sentence. furthermore, it should give a list of some but not all of that noun.
One example from Thursdays from Ron video is as follows:

The gym teacher asked us to three body-weight exercises,including sit ups, push ups and chin ups. --> wrong
The gym teacher asked us to ten body-weight exercises,including sit ups, push ups and chin ups. --> correct

the original sentence is also similar to the above sentence.


mikeCoolBoy wrote:
United States Senator Daniel Inouye was appointed to several posts within the Democratic party during his first term, that included assistant majority whip and vice-chair of the Democratic Senatorial Committee.

(A) that included
(B) which includes
(C) including
(D) some of which were
(E) among them being

United States Senator Daniel Inouye was appointed to several posts within the Democratic party during his first term, that included assistant majority whip and vice-chair of the Democratic Senatorial Committee.

A. that included

that could refer to posts or term. The main problem is that the relative is preceded by a comma. Normally you shouldn't use a comma before that.

B. which includes

which refers to term, notice that the verb is in third person singular, which is not correct.

C. including

I don't know whether this "clearly" refers to posts but is the only option left. If someone can clarify why including is not ambiguous please do so.

D. some of which were

some of which ... modifies the previous noun. In this case term. This is not correct.

E. among them being

I think the use of being here is incorrect. Also among them has no clear reference.
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Re: United States Senator Daniel Inouye was appointed to several posts   [#permalink] 11 Aug 2019, 15:09

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