Unsure between big/small schools and more

Question

I posted this same question I've encountered in the AskAccepted forum, but since I know absolutely no one else who is applying, currently attending, or thinking about business school, I figured I will ask for the wisdom of other MBA applicants as well.

My heads been spinning for the last couple days now since I took the GMAT and started focusing my thoughts on the application process. I took a couple weeks, studied hard for the GMAT, and wound up with a 760 (48Q, 45V). I felt confident, but this was a very pleasant surprise. 

I've been spending a lot of time on the forums here reading what other people are thinking who have scores in that range, and it's all H/S/W, etc. Still, I find myself drawn to smaller schools, namely Vanderbilt, North Carolina and the University of Washington. I'm looking seriously at Duke and Northwestern, but I always come back to those three, especially Vanderbilt and North Carolina. 

My question is, am I doing myself any sort of long-term damage if I choose to most aggressively pursue smaller schools like Vanderbilt and UNC over the top-5 or top-10 programs? I feel like right now the GMAT score has potentially opened doors to the top programs, but I'm unsure as to whether my overall academic experience and career potential will be hurt if I go for a top-30 program instead. 

If it matters, other pertinent "profile" info is a 3.7 undergrad GPA from a small private school in Oregon with a liberal arts double-major. I'm 23/male/white and have around 1 1/2 years managerial work experience right now in a small private real estate business that my family runs. Of course, by fall '08 that'll be over 2 years experience.

Again, I truly appreciate any advice you guys can offer on this subject. Perhaps I could finally stop my head from spinning for at least a little while.

seanpatin · Answer

Think in geographic terms... it seems like you might want to stay or go to the Southeast. If that is what you want, then there is no problem choosing Vandy or UNC, both of which are good schools. Actually, UNC is very good. If you really want to be able to fully market yourself anywhere, then HSW are the top choices, but they tend to place very high numbers of graduates in their respective regions as well. So, really, if you are set on those schools I don't think there is necessarily a problem. At the least, apply to some Ultra-Elites, Elites, and your favs. It will only give you more opportunities and time to decide which one to attend.

riverripper · Answer

If you wait another year or two then you should really consider Tuck. They tend to like people with more work experience, especially if you are coming from a family business, but it is a small program and its one of those that is right between elite and ultra elite status. Its not in a big city and is more of a small school small town type place. Everyone talks about how tight knit the b-school is. Its seems to be a pretty cultish place and alumni are super loyal...so there has to be a reason for that.

PaulK · Answer

Tuck is an interesting suggestion. I'm getting married in a couple months, which is another major consideration of course in deciding where to attend. I feel like Vanderbilt and UNC, being in major cities, offer more a life outside of B-school. Tuck seemed to be a little isolated.

Still, I feel like the only one not aiming exclusively Top-10, and I'm wondering if I am missing something major. I'm not entirely sure if I'd stay in Nashville or the Chapel Hill/Triangle area after I earn my MBA, so the national base is a good point.

I want to obviously strive for the best I can get, but after spending hours reading and comparing, say, Vanderbilt to Northwestern, both seem to offer a quality, well-rounded education. Northwestern is much larger and so probably offers a much stronger alumni base, and the name Kellogg carries a lot of prestige. But am I missing other key differences? Continued feedback greatly appreciated. It's great to finally have a bunch of people in the same boat as myself. For a while I felt like no one even knew what an MBA is.

riverripper · Answer

I think you should really evaluate what you want to do long term. You are still really young to be aiming for an MBA. You probably would be better served giving it at least one more year to apply unless you have a pretty good idea of what you want to do post grad. People choose schools for various reasons and family consideration are definitely part of that. When I first started it was only schools in Boston so we wouldn't have to move far and my wife could keep her job. Now its expanded to any place I want.

Getting your MBA is definitely going to be a major decision and it will affect your wife. You may not want to throw too many changes at once trust me planning and having a wedding and applying would be beyond stressful. Get married, strengthen your profile a little by volunteering and persuing leadership, evaluate what you want out of a degree (yes we all want a bigger paycheck but personally thats not why you should get an MBA...though its the reason for plenty of people)...and then with your wife pick some schools to apply to.

PaulK · Answer

Much of my thinkings been centered around exactly those things, riverripper, and thanks for the help, by the way. It's interesting, because I'm only 23, but I'm at a point where there is a feeling of natural transition. Obviously, with getting hitched we have all that going on, but most the plans are set and now it's just waiting for the celebration.

Working in my family's business has been about as much a crash-course in running a successful business as I could expect. Now we're at a point where there is probably a couple of years before any more major expansion. So, again, this seems to be a good time to be thinking about acquiring a well-rounded knowledge of business, the theoretical aspects, and expand my capabilities.

I definitely agree that the decision should not be paycheck based, and for me it's definitely not on my top-10 for making my decision. With the schools I am considering, I am looking to give myself a decent amount of flexibility. That is why, with my lack of familiarity with the reputation and standing of the various schools, I am wondering exactly how the decision will have long-term effect. I am entering unchartered water within my family.

There are a bunch of other specific reasons I am pursuing an MBA, but I will spare you a laundry list. My fiance and I have agreed that really anywhere in the country is open, but because she's a teacher we want it to be a place where it's most plausible for her to find a good job. That's one reason we were looking at Vanderbilt, Duke, and UNC.

There really is a lot that goes into making this decision! The joy of a good GMAT seems eons ago.

lepium · Answer

The 760 is very nice (congrats), but all that it means is that if you get dinged it won't be because of a low GMAT. Unluckily all the Ultra Elites get enough applicants with high GMATs (700+) that they can focus on everything else and still wind up with classes with high GMAT averages. 

I'm not good at evaluating abridged profiles, so write to Ask Hjort and others for such advice, but my wild guess is that you are probably a little short in the work experience side to be a strong candidate for the Ultra - elites and probably for the Elites, too (not because of years of experience, but because it is both short and within the family business). 

Hope it helps. L.

PaulK · Answer

Yeah, I've come to realize that although it may be 1%, there are still a lot of people in that 1%. I appreciate the offer for profile eval, but with 1000 others on this site I've found more than a handful of people in a similar situation. I feel pretty solid about being able to communicate quality of work experience, even though it's limited, though that is a good point that it may be viewed differently since it has been within a family business. Guess that much is ultimately not up to me.

What I was primarily wondering about was how big a deal it is to see myself matched perfectly with a top-30, and not find the same match with a top-10 or top-5. 

BTW, just read the 7 phases...I believe this is all part of phase 4...

darren1010 · Answer

Uhm, I would suggest you to consider Emory too. A small and good program in a major city... :wink:

aaudetat · Answer

Paulk - which school did you go to, if you don't mind my asking? 

Anyway, I will add to what others have said -- it depends what you want. If you want to return to the family biz, by all means, who really cares that much where your MBA is from? You'll learn the marketing/finance, etc you want to learn and there you go. 

I'm with Lepium - your experience is short, and adcoms will see that. The lower the ranking, the less it's likely to matter. And L didn't get too specific, but here's the thing with being in a family biz -- it's hard to get recommendations. You can't get a rec from someone you're related to. And I also wonder what working with your family looks like. On the one hand, you probably have lots of responsibility and are really tied in to the whole company. On the other hand, does working for the family biz seem like less of a meritocracy?

I'm getting academic here - has nothing to do with you.

PaulK · Answer

That is pretty much exactly what I am debating, aaudetat. I have got some great experience, because I was so familiar with the business before I started, I can and have been allowed to run it myself when necessary. This means being in charge of the various complexes (it's apartments and mini-storages), the managers, and whatnot. I definitely would never ask my parents for a recommendation (lets hope they'd make it positive!), but the company is big enough now that we hired another woman to help run the office portion, so she will be writing the letters of recommendation.

It terms of what exactly I want, I have a pretty clear idea of what that would be. I know from my experience what it takes to run a business. It's what I do most every day. But I'd like b-school to give me the chance to expand the range I'm comfortable with, beyond real estate and gather more generally applicable knowledge. Not that I don't like real estate, but there's a part of me wanting to be able to handle a broader range. I would love to get involved in the green business movement, sustainability, etc. (I've spent a lot of time looking over the beyondgreypinstripes report info).

Oh, and the school I went to for undergrad was University of Portland. Mostly famous for our soccer team. Again, many thanks for continued feedback.

Hjort · Answer

If you are interested in the Elite cluster, how about Yale SOM?

PaulK · Answer

Hjort, you've read my mind there. I keep coming back to Yale, but I guess I hesitate because of only having 2 years work experience within a family business. I have had some great achievements/successes, but as other people have noted I will have to deal with admission officers seeing it as having taken place at a family business.

Do you think there is a chance of a 23 year-old, white male, 760/6.0 GMAT with only 2 years W/E gaining admittance at Yale? I'm trying to narrow my list to 5 schools, and right now I have Duke/UNC/Vanderbilt for 3 I'm sure I want to apply to, and I'm looking for 2 others. I have read over your great descriptions of the schools, and feel like Virginia and Emory may also be good choices, but Yale has been very enticing as well. I guess I am turning this into a profile eval, for which I apologize, but what do you think my chances would be?

Unsure between big/small schools and more

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