calling porsche enthusiasts?

Question

Clubbers, Any porsche fans taking the gmat? Looking forward to my first purchase with the 2012 Carrera :oops:

and hoping to get a conversation going. https://www.detnews.com/article/20111201/AUTO01/112010439/1148/auto01/Porsche+has++overwhelming++orders+for+$119+000+revamped+911 Porsche AG said it has received "overwhelming" orders in Germany for the revamped 911 sports car two days before the 88,000-euro ($119,000) model goes on sale in Europe. Porsche will have a "particularly strong rush" for the seventh-generation 911 at showrooms in Europe's biggest economy, the Stuttgart, Germany-based manufacturer said Thursday in a statement, without giving order numbers. Advance sales of the reworked 911 are in the four-digits, spokesman Dirk Erat said.

vwjetty · Answer

yup. what's going on. volkswagen audi porsche guy here. porsche has always had close ties with volkswagen and audi and use similar parts.

Praetorian · Answer

hello vwjetty! I know a boxster owner who remains very happy with the car. Any experiences you can share or do you know of any people owning porsches? I plan to use the Carrera for regular commuting plus a few times on the track. While repairs are obviously not cheap, regular maintenance doesn't seem too bad.

The newer models have much nicer (standard) interiors (borrowed from the Panamera)

Official Video 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yWLJ-GQJN8 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jiM78AqOUI

Images 
 https://gmotors.co.uk/news/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/2012-Porsche-911-991-6.jpg 
 https://gmotors.co.uk/news/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/2012-Porsche-911-991-3.jpg

Links 
For interested clubbers, a few links:
The Complete Story of 911 -  https://www.autozine.org/911/911_2.htm 
Official 2012 Porsche 911 thread -  https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/991/230826-official-2012-porsche-991-911-spy-shots-renderings-details-etc.html 
Porsche Meet up -  https://porsche.meetup.com/

From wikipedia - In typical Porsche fashion, the ignition is to the left of the steering wheel. This placement dates back to the early days of Le Mans racing when drivers were required to make a running start, hop into their cars, start them and begin the race

vwjetty · Answer

the boxster is like a the civic of porsche's. all show no go. it's more or less a budget roller if you will.

On the other hand, I have driven a Carrera. I'm not too sure how well experienced you are in auto cross but it's definitely a nice ride. Suspension is stiff as hell, handles nicely but I think it's under-powered. If I was to spend that kind of money, it better have some get up and go. Hence, I would recommend the Carrera S, which I think boosts a little more power. Carrera is 350 and the S is 400. As far as using it as a daily and a track car...ehh, I never mix work and pleasure in the same bowl. it just spells disaster, at least for me. I have my daily car and I have my fun weekend car.

Price-tag is a bit pricey for me. Not too staggered on the looks either. But hey, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'm more of a tuner guy. I like to get my hands dirty and build something rather than having something pre-built for me. Then again, my car doesn't turn heads either so it's a give or take.

Bottom line. Are you more of a show or are you more of a performance guy? Sure Porsche carries the name but for that much money I'd rather dump it into a B5 Audi S4 bi-turbo AWD setup. Upgrade to K04 turbo's and turn the boost up. Maybe run some methanol injections at higher RPM's topped off with a front-mounter intercooler. You'll be pushing over 500 easy.

Either that or i'd get a mk4 VW R32 and boost it. I have a friend with it and it's a hell of a track car because AWD is better than RWD when it comes to track times....unless you're trying to drift of course.

https://www.benlevy.com/auto/meet/honda20080315/dscf0240.jpg

Praetorian · Answer

good info. thank you. I am very curious how much of the routine work on the car can be done by ourselves. Do many owners work on their car repair/maintenance themselves?

Doesn't look too bad from these videos --

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MseXBa8a_c[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nMi2-nHXYE[/youtube]

https://p-car.com/diy/diy.html

Personally I believe half of the fun in owning a Porsche 911 is to work on them, most of your routine maintenance can be done at the leisure of your own time, with garden variety metric tools and few special tools. The biggest benefit of DIY is you know for sure your car is treated with the utmost care since you are the mechanic performing the work. And you don't have to worry about door dings from careless mechanic and porters doing Gran Prix racing with your 911. On top of that you will know for sure you replaced every part that is supposed to be replaced, and every nuts and bolts is bolted back on.

vwjetty · Answer

umm....usually, at least from my experience, all the porsche owners I know, don't work on their own cars just simply because

A) they got money 
B) it voids their warranty 
C) they don't know how

I imagine working an porsche would be much similar to an Audi but these German cars require a lot of specialty tools that can only be bought from them directly. So sometimes, one tool can cost up to a few hundred dollars, while the labour for the job roughly is the same. Oil changes are pretty simple but once you start to tinker with performance-related stuff it gets a whole lot harder. Sometimes even maintenance is pretty difficult. For example, I own a 97 Jetta GLX VR6. It's not driven by conventional timing belts, but by timing chains* and they are located between the transmission and the engine block & head. So, the only way to get to that position to pull the entire motor out. So while, you have the motor out, and I don't have it out often, you'd probably want to replace the clutch, flywheel, pressure plate, and clutch bearing while you're there at it. So naturally as you can see, this job can get quite pricey real quick, real fast.

AlexMBAApply · Answer

Try www.rennlist.com

If you're talking about the 911, as you may know the dividing line is 1999. Those made in 1998 or earlier were air cooled, whereas those in 1999 onwards are water cooled. The air cooled cars have less electronics to worry about, and are usually more DIY friendly.

It really comes down to how mechanically inclined you are too. The good thing about Porsches is that there is a VERY dedicated DIY community out there that posts a lot of how-to's with some super detailed instructions as you saw in your link.

Between Boxster, Cayman or 911 - it's a much longer discussion I guess.

Also it depends on whether you're looking for the latest model or not. Keep in mind that the latest models aren't always the "best" ones or the most coveted ones.

Finally it depends on what you're looking for in a car. If you want a more luxurious ride, go with the newer ones (those made after 2004). If you're looking for a rawer more visceral experience - go with the air cooled models (1998 or older). I'm not really a big fan of the Panamera-like interior in the new 911.

Personally, I find the air cooled ones to be a lot more fun to drive - better sounding, more raw of an experience, and looks better too (in my opinion - especially the 993s - those made between 1995-98).

Also, you can absolutely use the 911 as a daily driver - if you live in a warm climate, you can drive it year round as a daily driver.

And yes, major repairs (engine rebuilds) aren't cheap, but maintenance isn't too bad at all - and if you are mechanically inclined, you can do the regular maintenance yourself.

Praetorian · Answer

thanks! vwjetty, I did get the "those people have more money than common sense" view from many Porsche not-fans.

[quote2"AlexMBAApply"]Try https://www.rennlist.com[/quote2]

thanks for that link. Your view on older Porsches is a lot normal than many fans.

https://www.autozine.org/911/911_2.htm
Since April 1998, our old friend 911 was dead. Although Zuffenhausen is still selling a car called Nine-Eleven today, all of us know the real 911 no longer lives in the world. Still, it's a miracle that a car could live for 34 years yet remained to be the core model of its maker.

Praetorian · Answer

PDK vs. Manual Transmission - Any thoughts?

PDK vs. Manual

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVElNKCfdas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pffVyUrUlfY

How about launch control?

Launch Control

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYvoXgpVNuU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9gJtzUMcsk

vwjetty · Answer

PDK is a double clutch. not a fan. so basically, you have two clutches that does the same function as a manual single disk clutch. So why not just one beefy clutch and be done with it? bottom line: you can have the best transmission in the world, but transmission doesn't bring power. so ultimately, what are you going to do with all them gears and clutches if you don't have any power to put them to work?

honestly, the more porsche videos I want the more I don't want one. horsepower/dollar ratio is just too low

asimov · Answer

I don't know why the Porsche video keep on saying "double clutch." double clutching is a driving technique in which you clutch out at neutral before shifting to another gear. This is to help with rev matching. What Porsche has is a dual clutch, which has decrease shift time. It's not a big deal if you are an average driver, but if you are a pro, the decrease in shift time can improve performance materially. It also helps acceleration, because you don't have the normal deceleration when the gear isn't engaged.

vwjetty · Answer

"Granny shiftin' not double clutchin' like you should. You're lucky that hundred shot of NOS didn't blow the welds on the intake!"

https://www.shockya.com/news/wp-content/uploads/fast_and_the_furious_5_vin_diesel.jpg

ahahahaha....i've been waiting to use that line forever now lol

Praetorian · Answer

nice quote vwjetty. hello asimov!.

On the power/dollar ratio, lets talk comparisons.

Cayman, Boxster and Similar Cars

Between Boxster, Cayman or 911 - it's a much longer discussion I guess.

We should talk about Boxster, Cayman and 911. Boxster & Cayman obviously have lower power than the 911, so I looked for comparable models. My conclusion about Boxster and Cayman -- certainly not dissing any owners/fans -- The SLK, M3 and the Shelby GT500 were a much better choice compared to the Cayman. As for the Boxster, the Z4 is hard to ignore.

For interested clubbers:

Images 
 https://fordauto.org/wp-content/uploads/sacarfan-2010-shelby-gt500-super-snake-17.jpg 
 https://images.thecarconnection.com/med/mercedes-benz-slk-class_100337107_m.jpg

Video 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O46E0gCF5os 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP0Yxt9jREY

vwjetty · Answer

ultimately, i think it comes down to what "fits" you. and i don't mean whether you can fit in the seat or not. if it was me, between the 3, 911 all day. ALL DAY. sure you spend the extra cash, but you get what you pay for. I'm also a hardcore enthusiast, so something like the 911, i probably couldn't pass up. 911 turbo would be my cup of tea.

something else to consider is the weight distribution. while the 911 is a rear-wheel driven vehicle, it's engine is literally on its bumpers. this is good, because you get a lot of traction. it's bad, because you're going to fact a lot of under-steer when you're around the corners. just depends on what floats your boat. i probably wouldn't recommend it as a drift car either lol

Praetorian · Answer

ditto - I agree. As enthusiast in training, I might sign up for this: https://www.porschedriving.com/

Turbo is really way too much for me. I'd be happy with a C4S. The only other cars I did consider were the Tesla Roadster and the Fisker Karma for some obvious reasons.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB62XIBy7L8[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8m5RRJ3-Cr0[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0mU6DIZWlQ[/youtube]

vwjetty · Answer

buddy, you got some expensive taste. i don't know how old you are, but i'm 25, and those cars are kinda out of my budget range....for a quite a long time. It's probably an age thing, most of the folks I see driving those vehicles are usually in their 30's, good job, successful businessman/engineer/doctor/lawyer, good wife/fiance. People that are really just starting to live because they've been hitting the books and been sitting in a library or a classroom for quite sometime. Kinda like where I'm at right now haha But no matter what happens, I'll never sell my baby - got too much money, blood, sweat, and tears in it already. Anyways, back to topic, not really feeling the Tesla or the Fisker. Dunno why, the contour of the body doesn't really appeal to me. Looks like too much of a Lotus, and I'm not a fan of those. My suggestion, stick it with the Porsche, even if you don't buy a high end turbo model, you can't go wrong with all motor power, as long as all cylinders are pumping. Anyways, here's a picture of my money-pit, a 97 jetta

currently making right at 200 at the wheels. and yes, it's a VR6

plans are to turbo it and turn the boost up, and hopefully break 300 next winter when i have time off school to work on it. currently, it's just a garage queen :-D

oh, and on a final note, please PLEASE PLEASE , when you buy your Porsche, buy it 5 (or 6) speed. I see people driving around with these tiptronic or whatever and they have these "paddle" shifters...i drove them. it doesn't compare to the good ol' manual transmission - i don't care what they say! :good

and if you ask me, electric and whatever new stuff they got going on these days to be more "greener" is just a pile of garbage. i've drove internal combustion vehicles all my life, and i'll continue to do until the day i die. they're easier to work on, it's cheap, and parts are easily accessible. i do believe porsche is trying to go green with electric or hydrogen or whatever...not a fan. my theory is, if i can't hear it run, it doesn't need to run, cause i'm not driving it. period. https://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z442/vwjetty2/6332_668898799536_25512836_38368616_6032488_n.jpg this is my inspiration right here..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CthXjS72fg

Praetorian · Answer

Nice car!

Your observation about age and profession isn't far off.

I agree about Tesla and manual as well. With Tesla, I put off my decision because of the Model S. I am waiting to test drive one before making up my mind. Tesla discontinued the Roadster and as I understand it, they will be building the next Roadster on the Model S chassis. Their new sedan Model S looks stylish and has gotten some serious press.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdn1CwElJys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-E31ExpWEo

AlexMBAApply · Answer

BOXSTER: it's an incredibly fun car to drive. Some folks call it a "chick car" but so is the Miata, and it's also a lot of fun too. It's easy for some folks to laugh at those who drive Boxsters, but those who do tend to be college students driving rice rockets, and not adults.

CAYMAN: right now this seems to be the heir apparent to the *spirit* of the old 911s: a no-frills sports car. Handles beautifully. It is underpowered relative to the 911 because Porsche knows that if you combine the Cayman's mid-engine configuration with a 911 type of performance: it would blow the 911 out of the water.

911: the flagship. My opinion is that the new ones are becoming bigger and more like GTs, less like sports cars (and I am a huge fan of their older 911s). As for manual vs. PDK, there's a lot of snobs out there who crap on the PDK (or anything that is auto), but the fact is, that's where cars are going now.

It really comes down to this: drive what you want, regardless of what others think. TEST DRIVE them. That will tell you more than reading performance specs. When it comes to owning and driving a sports car - it's an EXPERIENCE, not a computer printout of specs. You live with it. You sit in it. You listen to the sound of the engine purr. Each car will *feel* different to different drivers. If you're choosing between say a Boxster vs. Z4, or a Cayman vs. M3 vs. M5 or whatever -- it really comes down to personal taste and your own *feel* for what you want and how you feel sitting in side and driving it.

Some hardcore enthusiasts (or kids who can't afford these cars but talk smack), they may say "yeah, only a 911 GT3 and nothing else, not even a Turbo" -- without realizing that it depends on the person.

In my opinion, there are *track* cars, and *road* cars. There are knuckleheads who want a sports car to race on the street. If you're a little older, you know to leave all the hardcore driving to the track, and stay safe when driving on the street (even if it's in your 911).

Again, it's all a matter of personal taste. Forget the stats because those are based on *ideal* driving conditions, and you're never going to achieve those in the real world anyhow given the crappy road conditions, other bad drivers on the road, etc. Whether a car goes from 0-60 in 0.2 seconds faster than another really makes no difference in the actual driving experience.

In my opinion, I'm not really a huge fan of the *new* 911s because while it's still an amazing ride, it lacks the thrill you get when you're in a more raw car (in many ways, the Cayman R is a more raw sports car than the 911). At the price point they're asking for the new 911 (including options, tax, etc.) I could get a Ferrari 360, or a Ferrari F430 for just a little more -- even though say the Ferrari 360 isn't as "advanced" as the latest 911, it's a more fun and exciting car to drive (even with Ferrari's F1 paddle shifts). FUN. That's the most important measure to me in a sports car - not performance specs. That's why I think the Boxster is great - it's fun. That's why a lot of M3 owners love their cars - they don't care whether it's got the best specs - but they all feel it's a fun car to drive. FUN.

Ivan91 · Answer

Last summer I had the pleasure of driving the last 911 turbo s. There is nothing I can compare the feeling with. I would take the turbo s over the Ferrari 458 any day.

vwjetty · Answer

turbo's are all fun and nice and dandy and fast and fun and everything...but they do break because it's just so many moving parts in combination with heat. so if you buy a boosted porsche, make sure to have some deep wallets....and use the right oil because the oil return line to the turbo needs to be of the right viscosity otherwise it'll gunk up and overheat the turbo causing malfunctions...ask me how i know lol....

VW's 1.8T motors are breaking left and right and I charge 1000 a piece....just from people not using the right oil and normal wear and tear.....damn, ya'll just found how i pay for grad school :-)

calling porsche enthusiasts?

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