Kellogg vs. Ross for IB

Question

Looking into recruiting for IB positions post-MBA and I'm trying to pick the list of schools that I want to apply at. I've got the obvious ones on my radar: H/S/W, Booth, MIT, Columbia, & Stern. Yale and Cornell are strong in banking as well. That being said, Kellogg and UM Ross are two schools that are very strong, but aren't necessarily well known for finance and almost never send much more than 10% of their classes into IB.

I'm trying to narrow down a broad list of schools to a much smaller list, based on fit, location, etc, but I want to make sure I'm not leaving any schools off my main "broad" list of schools that offer lots of opportunities to land a job at a BB IB firm.

The question then becomes, should I even include these two schools on my list of potential schools to apply to? With only about 10% of their classes going into IB, it seems like these schools don't focus primarily on finance. I am from Michigan and think that I would recruit well at these two schools, but I'm still worried about my prospects postgrad enough to maybe even not bother applying. What are your opinions, GMATClub?

sniperssk · Answer

I would go with W/Chi/Col/NYU as top choices for finance + H/S (which are good for everything). If you take a look at the function (not industry) breakdown, you'll see that the first 4 send the most people into pure IB jobs (not PWM for instance). MIT sends about 5% in 2009, Kellogg about 4-5%, Ross about 7%. I don't know how strong Yale is for IB because they don't have a detailed breakdown by function as they have by industry - I wonder why when all other schools do that. For instance, Columbia sends 28% to IB industry, but only about 13% go to IB functions. So, when you see Yale's figures, you might guess that perhaps some 7-10%, up to 15% maximum, go to pure IB functions. Just bear that in mind. For example, Cornell send 17% into IB industry, but only 8% into IB function (this is for 2010 internships, 2009 FT is 22% IB industry vs. 12% IB function) - I think Yale's figures would parallel that ratio and these schools are not head and shoulders above the other top 8-15 schools when in comes to IB - the only difference might be their proximity to NY.
Kellogg vs. Ross will depend on whether you want to apply to a wider range of schools - top 10-15 vs. only top 5 schools. Both schools are very close in their recruiting profiles as to industry/function. Chances at Ross might be slightly better than at Kellogg, so if you would like to hedge your bets somehow, you might pick Ross. If you feel confident that you will get in into at least 1 of the top 5, pick Kellogg.

Moss · Answer

Yeah ultimately neither school would be my top choice, but I think that I need to apply to a wide range of schools beyond just my dream schools. I'm just wondering if Kellogg and Ross even make sense if my goal is to do IB postgrad. It sounds like you've got the same idea, ie, they're less than ideal -- but do you think they are at least still acceptable?

sniperssk · Answer

Well, I do think they are acceptable for a career in IB. Bear in mind that even if they are not the best, like H/W/Chi/Col/NYU, they are still very good and get a decent amount of IB recruiting. One thing to note, however, is that in the current climate IB is bad everywhere and banks haven't cut recruiting at the top finance schools as much as they have at the others. For example, before the crisis, Ross was sending about 10% to IB and had all top banks except ML recruiting there. Last year, however, GS and MS weren't among the top recruiters there, meaning they took 1-2 people. As far as I know, last year the most active BBs recruiting at Ross for IB were JPM, Citi and UBS. CS, Barclays, DB recruited for PWM/GM/Internal finance/Leadership programs, not your typical front office. Not sure about GS/MS. Interesting: GS wasn't among the top recruiters at Booth too last year according to their employment report, meaning they recruited fewer than 3 graduates. In short, you'll have a shot at K/Ross, but in this climate it's going to be hard even at the top finance schools, so have a backup plan. Top IB schools have another advantage - boutiques recruit on campus. However, they hire in small numbers and prefer people with previous experience in IB, so if you don't have one, this door might not be open even if you are at these schools.

unhedged · Answer

The other side of this is that there are less people at both Kellogg and Ross that want to go into IB, which is reflected by the percentages.

I attended the IB Breakout Session at the Kellogg Admitted Student's Weekend. From what I gathered, every top bank hires from Kellogg. People had internships from JPM, GS, CS, etc. in IBD. Also, there are fewer people gunning for interview spots so its somewhat easier to get the first round interview. If I chose this path, I don't think my options would be limited.

I think it is a similar thing for Ross. Almost all the banks recruit there, but there are simply fewer people interested. I saw campus interview slots for Lazard, CS, JPM, DB, etc.

So in the end, I think Kellogg would have slightly more cache by simply being a more reputed school, but both will offer several opportunities to break into IB. More banks hire more people from the finance schools, but there is also more competition for those slots.

Moss · Answer

Thanks for all the insight and advice all! As a follow-up, would your comments be the same for SS Equity Research as well?

sniperssk · Answer

To be honest, I don't know much about ER. As far as I know, they tend to recruit in very small numbers at few schools, if they recruit at all. Take a look at the career sub-forum; there are some topics about research.

milias · Answer

My experience so far with Ross is in line with this statement. While there're people who want to go into finance - I've met a few - the number relative to the student body is fairly small. Ross is known for general management and being a well-rounded school, but I can confirm (also through interview slots) that the big banks that unhedged mentioned do recruit at Ross. Whether you end up getting the job ultimately comes down to you, but as far as I can tell, with ratio of available number of opportunities and students interested, it should be fairly easy to at least get an interview with the recruiter. Good luck with your decision!

Moss · Answer

Thanks for all the info, guys!!!

Kellogg vs. Ross for IB

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