Events & Promotions
|
|
GMAT Club Daily Prep
Thank you for using the timer - this advanced tool can estimate your performance and suggest more practice questions. We have subscribed you to Daily Prep Questions via email.
Customized
for You
Track
Your Progress
Practice
Pays
Not interested in getting valuable practice questions and articles delivered to your email? No problem, unsubscribe here.
Apr 2310:00 AM EDT
-10:30 AM EDT
Admissions committees evaluate the GMAT/GRE in context — your background, your representation in the applicant pool, the strength of everything else in your file. The same score works for one candidate and falls short for another with identical numbers.
Apr 2312:00 PM PDT
-01:00 PM PDT
Inquire for a free profile evaluation and guarantee statement for possible admits and scholarships!
Apr 2408:30 PM IST
-09:30 PM IST
Join us for a Live Coffee chat with Jenifer Turtschanow where we talk about enhancing your MBA profile and fixing gaps in just 4 months.
Apr 2511:00 AM EDT
-01:00 PM EDT
Looking to secure a coveted spot at a top business school? Our team of seasoned MBA admissions consultants, including top B schools alumni and industry leaders, is here to help turn your dreams into reality. Let’s kick-start your journey to success!
Legolas1221
Current Student
Joined: 18 May 2019
Last visit: 03 Apr 2022
Posts: 61
Given Kudos: 85
Location: India
Schools: Simon '23 (A)
GMAT 1: 710 Q48 V40
Updated on: 24 Mar 2021, 11:10
Originally posted by Legolas1221 on 23 Mar 2021, 04:10.
Last edited by Legolas1221 on 24 Mar 2021, 11:10, edited 22 times in total.
Last edited by Legolas1221 on 24 Mar 2021, 11:10, edited 22 times in total.
Kudos
Bookmarks
Hello Everyone!
I have been accepted at Schulich School of Business(Toronto, Canada) and Simon Business School(Rochester, USA).
I aim to enter Tech Product Management and I have 5 years of experience in the tech space with about 1 year as a Product Owner(carrying out roles slightly similar to that of a Product Manager, but not completely)
I was initially not open to applying to US B schools as I am not fully comfortable with the VISA regulations for an international student. So I focused on Canadian schools. However in R3 I had some time and applied to Simon - the interview went great and I got a 55% scholarship. Now, USA is the best place to pursue a career in Tech Product Management which absolutely entices me but the favourable immigration laws of Canada suit my long term goals.
Schulich School of Business - York University (Toronto, Canada)
Cost - 95k USD(No scholarship)
Pros -
- Easy immigration and post study visa. (This is helpful, as way into the future(>10 years) I would like to be in a country where I have the option to bring my family too, if required).
- Very well known brand name across Canada. One among the top 5 schools. (And among the top 3 which provide 2 year MBAs) - there is a caveat though, in canada, there are only 5 MBAs worth looking at.
- Very strong network in canada(the school graduates about 350 students a year)
- Located in Toronto. Access to tech roles is good in Toronto. Alot of start ups focused on Tech in toronto - its a tech and finance capital. its a city where in Tech jobs, you will be part of the growth of a company(most tech companies are small-medium, besides Big tech presence which is impossible to break into as a fresh MBA graduate in canada - but is possible in the US)(The B schools, Rotman and Schulich benefit from the toronto location)
- Toronto also seems to have a great networking culture, i was able to speak to many students and alumni in rotman and schulich with ease.
Cons
- The career centre is not good. Unlike Rotman, which heavily engages their students in their career activities and has alot of job openings posted in the internal site, Schulich lacks this. Because of this, Schulich students struggle a bit to find internships/jobs. From my conversations from students in both schools, for my target role - Both school career centres would not be of help, and it would be completely based off of networking. (Both schools, as most b schools, have a finance/consulting focus - and not too many people aim for PM roles)
- While the Tech PM roles jobs are available in Toronto, the number is nowhere close to the US market. Most Tech PM roles are in established startups in Toronto. I've been told that the big tech companies in Toronto, hire PMs with considerable experience(4-5 years) or the PMs from US who want to move to canada.
- The 350+ batch size causes an issue with the quality of the students. The only other major B school in toronto - Rotman is the #1 program in the country and manages to pick up top talent. Speaking to a current student, he said that about 40% of the cohort is not great at all(to put it mildly) and would not contribute to the class and also your own personal growth. (not sure if this is overblown in my head) - The top candidates go to Rotman, and the ones which prefer 1 year programs go to Queens and Ivey. Then comes Mcgill and schulich.
- Huge Indian influx at Schulich. About 50% of the students are Indians. (I am an Indian myself and would like a more diverse crowed as I am investing in a international MBA. And yes, I do recognise that its completely upto me on how I wish to drive my MBA, But I thought i would call it out..as a current student felt quite strongly about it
)
Simon Business School - University of Rochester(Rochester, NY state, USA)
Cost - 70K USD(Received a 55% scholarship)
Pros
- Access to the US Tech market!! The best place to start your career for Product Management(PM) in Tech. Several current students/alumni have landed Tech PM internship/fulltime roles in big tech companies. (This is my target role and biggest reasons why I am considering USA). I have also spoken to students with similar background as me in other similarly ranked schools(Eli broad- Michigan, Babson) who entered this same space and they strongly believe that this is the right way ahead.
- Received a 55% scholarship. This is of great value to me, because I cannot afford the typical 140k total cost for a US MBA for an international student. So in a way, this is a good deal - i am not sure if a top 10-20 program will give me such a huge scholarship(710 GMAT, 5 years tech background, Indian male - overrepresented pool) - and at the same time, the opportunities for tech PM roles remains the same across these schools.
- If one is fortunate to work in Big tech(Amazon/Google/Fb) or large companies which have offices in multiple countries, temporary transfers due to any visa issues can be dealt with.
- The overall class diversity is better. Simon has a much smaller batch size of 130-140 student.
Cons
- USA H1B visa - I really do not look forward to the stress and tension that comes with not knowing whether you will continue to be in the country or not. A lot of my friends have told me it can be a very harsh experience. And much later, if I do need to bring my family to the country I'm in, US wouldn't work. So if I do go with Simon, I would aim to move to Canada in the future(After 5 years-8 years). If i were to look at this in a positive light, I would say that this way I can be sure of having the opportunity to land a good PM role and build that work experience. Which would definitely be valued when I apply for more senior PM roles in canada.(While tech is booming in toronto, there are simply more Tech PM roles in the US, which are also very high paying). BUT, At the same time, the general advice I have gotten from people is to study in the country you finally want to end up in. Which also makes sense, because if i choose Schulich, I would have built a really strong professional and personal network in Toronto - which can only further benefit me in the future. If I move from the US to canada, I would not have access to this potentially great network - and in way be a stranger in a new country.
- Even though the employment statistics are extremely good and competitive. It is not that well known a brand in the US. (Schulich is popular in Canada) However, US schools occupy 50% of the top 100 B schools if one were to go purely by ranking. So, a typical US b school is better than most other geographies. Simon is #60 in top 100, Schulich is not there in the list, the best canadian school - rotman is at 75. Also, I have been told that the impact of brand value is more for roles in IB/Management Consulting, for my field, the alumni should be working in the companies I am looking at, which they do.
- Located at Rochester.(Schulich is in toronto - good access to jobs and the tech space while studying itself)
- Career centre is not great for Tech jobs(Simon is traditionally focused on Finance) - however the career centre is very engaged with the students(i've been told this by several alumni) - much more than Schulich. And several current students and alumni intern/work in the companies/functions I am looking at. However, there is no internal portal for job postings etc. It will all need to be done on your own.(Like most schools)
------
------
To sum it up,
USA - Amazing Job Prospects Vs Immigration issues. Great ROI. Total cost - 70k USD (and high paying jobs)
Canada - Easy and simple immigration Vs relatively weaker job prospects. Low ROI - Fee - 95k (and comparatively lower paying jobs)
Also, I would have joined Rotman School of Management in Toronto if I had gotten an admit. But Schulich vs Simon makes me think again. While the cohort quality and the volume of Indian students seem to be a concern in schulich as compared to rotman - I am not sure if this is overblown in my head.(A schulich alumni I spoke to asked me to definitely apply to Ivey in Canada if not Rotman - Ivey is a higher ranked MBA program but does not have an internship - which I feel will be valuable to me)
I would love to hear people's thoughts on this. bb VeritasPrepDozie souvik101990 MBAPrepCoach any advice would be great!
I have been accepted at Schulich School of Business(Toronto, Canada) and Simon Business School(Rochester, USA).
I aim to enter Tech Product Management and I have 5 years of experience in the tech space with about 1 year as a Product Owner(carrying out roles slightly similar to that of a Product Manager, but not completely)
I was initially not open to applying to US B schools as I am not fully comfortable with the VISA regulations for an international student. So I focused on Canadian schools. However in R3 I had some time and applied to Simon - the interview went great and I got a 55% scholarship. Now, USA is the best place to pursue a career in Tech Product Management which absolutely entices me but the favourable immigration laws of Canada suit my long term goals.
Schulich School of Business - York University (Toronto, Canada)
Cost - 95k USD(No scholarship)
Pros -
- Easy immigration and post study visa. (This is helpful, as way into the future(>10 years) I would like to be in a country where I have the option to bring my family too, if required).
- Very well known brand name across Canada. One among the top 5 schools. (And among the top 3 which provide 2 year MBAs) - there is a caveat though, in canada, there are only 5 MBAs worth looking at.
- Very strong network in canada(the school graduates about 350 students a year)
- Located in Toronto. Access to tech roles is good in Toronto. Alot of start ups focused on Tech in toronto - its a tech and finance capital. its a city where in Tech jobs, you will be part of the growth of a company(most tech companies are small-medium, besides Big tech presence which is impossible to break into as a fresh MBA graduate in canada - but is possible in the US)(The B schools, Rotman and Schulich benefit from the toronto location)
- Toronto also seems to have a great networking culture, i was able to speak to many students and alumni in rotman and schulich with ease.
Cons
- The career centre is not good. Unlike Rotman, which heavily engages their students in their career activities and has alot of job openings posted in the internal site, Schulich lacks this. Because of this, Schulich students struggle a bit to find internships/jobs. From my conversations from students in both schools, for my target role - Both school career centres would not be of help, and it would be completely based off of networking. (Both schools, as most b schools, have a finance/consulting focus - and not too many people aim for PM roles)
- While the Tech PM roles jobs are available in Toronto, the number is nowhere close to the US market. Most Tech PM roles are in established startups in Toronto. I've been told that the big tech companies in Toronto, hire PMs with considerable experience(4-5 years) or the PMs from US who want to move to canada.
- The 350+ batch size causes an issue with the quality of the students. The only other major B school in toronto - Rotman is the #1 program in the country and manages to pick up top talent. Speaking to a current student, he said that about 40% of the cohort is not great at all(to put it mildly) and would not contribute to the class and also your own personal growth. (not sure if this is overblown in my head) - The top candidates go to Rotman, and the ones which prefer 1 year programs go to Queens and Ivey. Then comes Mcgill and schulich.
- Huge Indian influx at Schulich. About 50% of the students are Indians. (I am an Indian myself and would like a more diverse crowed as I am investing in a international MBA. And yes, I do recognise that its completely upto me on how I wish to drive my MBA, But I thought i would call it out..as a current student felt quite strongly about it
)Simon Business School - University of Rochester(Rochester, NY state, USA)
Cost - 70K USD(Received a 55% scholarship)
Pros
- Access to the US Tech market!! The best place to start your career for Product Management(PM) in Tech. Several current students/alumni have landed Tech PM internship/fulltime roles in big tech companies. (This is my target role and biggest reasons why I am considering USA). I have also spoken to students with similar background as me in other similarly ranked schools(Eli broad- Michigan, Babson) who entered this same space and they strongly believe that this is the right way ahead.
- Received a 55% scholarship. This is of great value to me, because I cannot afford the typical 140k total cost for a US MBA for an international student. So in a way, this is a good deal - i am not sure if a top 10-20 program will give me such a huge scholarship(710 GMAT, 5 years tech background, Indian male - overrepresented pool) - and at the same time, the opportunities for tech PM roles remains the same across these schools.
- If one is fortunate to work in Big tech(Amazon/Google/Fb) or large companies which have offices in multiple countries, temporary transfers due to any visa issues can be dealt with.
- The overall class diversity is better. Simon has a much smaller batch size of 130-140 student.
Cons
- USA H1B visa - I really do not look forward to the stress and tension that comes with not knowing whether you will continue to be in the country or not. A lot of my friends have told me it can be a very harsh experience. And much later, if I do need to bring my family to the country I'm in, US wouldn't work. So if I do go with Simon, I would aim to move to Canada in the future(After 5 years-8 years). If i were to look at this in a positive light, I would say that this way I can be sure of having the opportunity to land a good PM role and build that work experience. Which would definitely be valued when I apply for more senior PM roles in canada.(While tech is booming in toronto, there are simply more Tech PM roles in the US, which are also very high paying). BUT, At the same time, the general advice I have gotten from people is to study in the country you finally want to end up in. Which also makes sense, because if i choose Schulich, I would have built a really strong professional and personal network in Toronto - which can only further benefit me in the future. If I move from the US to canada, I would not have access to this potentially great network - and in way be a stranger in a new country.
- Even though the employment statistics are extremely good and competitive. It is not that well known a brand in the US. (Schulich is popular in Canada) However, US schools occupy 50% of the top 100 B schools if one were to go purely by ranking. So, a typical US b school is better than most other geographies. Simon is #60 in top 100, Schulich is not there in the list, the best canadian school - rotman is at 75. Also, I have been told that the impact of brand value is more for roles in IB/Management Consulting, for my field, the alumni should be working in the companies I am looking at, which they do.
- Located at Rochester.(Schulich is in toronto - good access to jobs and the tech space while studying itself)
- Career centre is not great for Tech jobs(Simon is traditionally focused on Finance) - however the career centre is very engaged with the students(i've been told this by several alumni) - much more than Schulich. And several current students and alumni intern/work in the companies/functions I am looking at. However, there is no internal portal for job postings etc. It will all need to be done on your own.(Like most schools)
------
------
To sum it up,
USA - Amazing Job Prospects Vs Immigration issues. Great ROI. Total cost - 70k USD (and high paying jobs)
Canada - Easy and simple immigration Vs relatively weaker job prospects. Low ROI - Fee - 95k (and comparatively lower paying jobs)
Also, I would have joined Rotman School of Management in Toronto if I had gotten an admit. But Schulich vs Simon makes me think again. While the cohort quality and the volume of Indian students seem to be a concern in schulich as compared to rotman - I am not sure if this is overblown in my head.(A schulich alumni I spoke to asked me to definitely apply to Ivey in Canada if not Rotman - Ivey is a higher ranked MBA program but does not have an internship - which I feel will be valuable to me)
I would love to hear people's thoughts on this. bb VeritasPrepDozie souvik101990 MBAPrepCoach any advice would be great!
23 Mar 2021, 18:29
Kudos
Bookmarks
Congrats on your admits!
It’s a hard choice. You are evaluating risk that is in precise and there’s a moving target. Nobody knows how navigation policy will be in the United States in the next few years though chances are it will be better than it used to be for MBA’s. Also who knows what is going to be happening with the economy.
I think it’s good you’ve been talking to the current students and done your research. The students would not discourage you from attending. That would look terrible and also be potentially damaging to the reputation but you should look for indicators and advice to give you. If somebody tells you to consider other options, that’s a pretty serious red flag. It does not mean your life is over but when comparing you to the rest of the student body, they feel you probably could do better. You don’t have to listen to their advice to take their red flag considerations.
I would also consider your financing options. Are you able to secure financing easier or at a better rate for either of the programs.
PS. What if you got admitted to Tepper or Russ? Would you consider US in that case? If yes, maybe Simon is the more logical choice.
Posted from my mobile device
It’s a hard choice. You are evaluating risk that is in precise and there’s a moving target. Nobody knows how navigation policy will be in the United States in the next few years though chances are it will be better than it used to be for MBA’s. Also who knows what is going to be happening with the economy.
I think it’s good you’ve been talking to the current students and done your research. The students would not discourage you from attending. That would look terrible and also be potentially damaging to the reputation but you should look for indicators and advice to give you. If somebody tells you to consider other options, that’s a pretty serious red flag. It does not mean your life is over but when comparing you to the rest of the student body, they feel you probably could do better. You don’t have to listen to their advice to take their red flag considerations.
I would also consider your financing options. Are you able to secure financing easier or at a better rate for either of the programs.
PS. What if you got admitted to Tepper or Russ? Would you consider US in that case? If yes, maybe Simon is the more logical choice.
Posted from my mobile device
Shruti0805
23 Mar 2021, 18:45
Kudos
Bookmarks
Hey Legolas1221,
I'm a current 2nd year at Simon. Feel free to DM me if you'd like to talk!
Posted from my mobile device
I'm a current 2nd year at Simon. Feel free to DM me if you'd like to talk!
Posted from my mobile device
